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Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Finding a matchup really easy? Finding a matchup extremely difficult? One variation is better than another against a character? Found tech that changes a matchup? You are in the right place.


Place all matchup related discussion in this thread.
 
Not that I can help much but what version of Sub Zero? Grandmaster Zero's ice clones can be shattered by a projectile but it will absorb the hit. Ex knifes will throw a second projectile that might hit Zero but can he throw out a ice ball and trade?, you might eat a combo if that happens. Wish I could help more.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Sub zero vs cutthroat kano help
Which Sub-Zero? My cousin plays Unbreakable so I know some about that, and I'm sure I'll face him at a tourney this weekend so I can give you some better insight after the weekend in case I can get some exp against a different variation.

Which Sub and what are you exactly having problems with?
 

NoobSaibot

PSN: JP_THUNDA
It feels like Kano (cutthroat) beats Erron Black (marksman) he can beat out Errons rifle with knives and feels like he has better normals. Just need to watch for Errons b1 3 it hits overhead low and goes a good distance.
 
I've been playing several matches against a friend who's maining Kenjitsu Kenshi. We're both at similar skill levels, him being slightly better. At the moment I feel out of Cutthroat and Cybernetic, Cutthroat stands a better chance due to the 50/50 wake up game.

Trying to zone out Kenshi easy at full screen, but at three quarters and less, he has his telekinetic grab, which if meter burned can stagger. The flip side is that at this range, my friend (and by extension I would assume many Kenshi players of equal to lower skill) looks to use the grab, and it's recovery allows for a knife throw or kano ball counter (I'm going to test this later to see how viable it is). The grab is also an anti air, stuffing approaches and leading to a potentially nasty punish. Air K-Ball is grabable too. Not sure about EX horizontal yet (again, testing later).

I seem to find that footsies and wake up mix ups fare better, and for that Cutthroat is better suited. Admittedly, early days, but I'm going off hours long sets and shared lab time. Commando may be better than Cutthroat, but I'm unsure how to use him. Seeing as I'll be playing a lot of this matchup, I plan on really studying it. I'll post what I find as I find it. I lack the capability to make videos, otherwise I would.
 
I fought a Grandmaster Zero just now. He never threw the clone so I don't know if I can jump it or whatever but from fullscreen if he makes the clone and starts spamming ice balls, jump the first two, then throw a knife. The clone will disappear allowing you to hit Zero and block the ice ball which does no chip.

Things should then be in your favor for throwing knifes. Doesn't matter if he crouches, your building meter and he needs to get to midscreen to play at his best. You'll probably do a little chip as he tries to close distance to mid screen. If he is determined to stay away then he can't do anything as you keep throwing knifes.

Expect a ragequit if he isn't good enough to approach.
 

Decay

King of the Bill
First time playing Takeda and at first I didn't realize how many overhead / low mixups he has at almost full screen, then a few games later I started learning the fuzzy block timing and I also realized commando variation seems to be his strongest in this MU. On knockdown Takeda has no options unless he does some crazy unsafe teleport. You can parry all his strings fullscreen and you can get some damage on a blocked low kunai with a command throw. Also, high parry works great on Takeda's wakeup.


@SaltShaker @Derocus @Fractured_Shadow
 

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
First time playing Takeda and at first I didn't realize how many overhead / low mixups he has at almost full screen, then a few games later I started learning the fuzzy block timing and I also realized commando variation seems to be his strongest in this MU. On knockdown Takeda has no options unless he does some crazy unsafe teleport. You can parry all his strings fullscreen and you can get some damage on a blocked low kunai with a command throw. Also, high parry works great on Takeda's wakeup.


@SaltShaker @Derocus @Fractured_Shadow
Good stuff, duder. Nice to see blockstrings being used properly.
Be sure to put this in the video thread too :v
 

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
First time playing Takeda and at first I didn't realize how many overhead / low mixups he has at almost full screen, then a few games later I started learning the fuzzy block timing and I also realized commando variation seems to be his strongest in this MU. On knockdown Takeda has no options unless he does some crazy unsafe teleport. You can parry all his strings fullscreen and you can get some damage on a blocked low kunai with a command throw. Also, high parry works great on Takeda's wakeup.


@SaltShaker @Derocus @Fractured_Shadow
I think you can stuff the wake up teleport with meaty normals. I don't think it has any invincibility on startup - even the ex version. Possible the guy I was playing was doing something wrong but in my experience you don't need to respect him at all. Even unsafe teleports are not options bc they get stuffed.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
First time playing Takeda and at first I didn't realize how many overhead / low mixups he has at almost full screen, then a few games later I started learning the fuzzy block timing and I also realized commando variation seems to be his strongest in this MU. On knockdown Takeda has no options unless he does some crazy unsafe teleport. You can parry all his strings fullscreen and you can get some damage on a blocked low kunai with a command throw. Also, high parry works great on Takeda's wakeup.


@SaltShaker @Derocus @Fractured_Shadow
Great play in that video man. I actually played this match this weekend at my local with Cyber Kano. I won the match, but it was a little more uphill than I thought it would be. After watching this I'm going to have to mess around with Commando Kano and see what's going on. You basically obliterated his wakeup game lol.

I can see this variation coming in handy in certain MU's where characters have bad wakeups and normals, like QC and company. It also looked liked at one time your armored grab slammed him while he did an EX Wakeup? If so that's crazy.

Definitely going to explore Commando after this. Are you going to Paradise Found? If so we gotta talk Kano man lol.
 

Decay

King of the Bill
Great play in that video man. I actually played this match this weekend at my local with Cyber Kano. I won the match, but it was a little more uphill than I thought it would be. After watching this I'm going to have to mess around with Commando Kano and see what's going on. You basically obliterated his wakeup game lol.

I can see this variation coming in handy in certain MU's where characters have bad wakeups and normals, like QC and company. It also looked liked at one time your armored grab slammed him while he did an EX Wakeup? If so that's crazy.

Definitely going to explore Commando after this. Are you going to Paradise Found? If so we gotta talk Kano man lol.
Thanks bro, yeah I think commando is strong in this matchup! And yeah ill be at Paradise found
 

Icarus

Need a Light?
Hey lovelies!
I main Commando, and I've found that Liu Kang (flame fist) is a brutal matchup. Not unwinnable by any stretch, but very taxing. Tips?
 

Icarus

Need a Light?
Also, any tips on dealing with projectile spammers with Jax or Kitana? I'm having trouble closing.
 

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
Also, any tips on dealing with projectile spammers with Jax or Kitana? I'm having trouble closing.
Dude, Kano's knives are great, even outside of Cybernetic.
What I do usually is block their projectiles, toss out a couple knives and then sprint in. Alternatively you can block, jump over the second projectile and airball.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
So how do I deal with Kung Jin as Kano, or anyone for that matter?
With Cyber Kano there's only one way. Zone him out, use your backdash to either stay out of his range or dive inside his reaching pokes, and full punish his unsafe moves. It's a tough MU though.

In time I'm going to make this thread a breakdown with all the experienced Kano players opinions on every MU.
 
With Cyber Kano there's only one way. Zone him out, use your backdash to either stay out of his range or dive inside his reaching pokes, and full punish his unsafe moves. It's a tough MU though.

In time I'm going to make this thread a breakdown with all the experienced Kano players opinions on every MU.
I have a friend who uses Kung Jin Bojutsu and he does alot of neutral jump punches because of the reach and that it leads into a combo. He also waits a lot for me to kano ball and punish on block. So I play the zoning game. Throw out a shitton of knifes to build meter, chip and bring him out of his shell.
Problem is he is really determined to neutral jump punch into combo if I come to him.

Doesn't matter if I poke or i'm going for a throw or i've thrown 50 knifes, neutral jump punch into combo attempt every time. It's actually mentally exhausting trying to condition someone who just doesn't care. By how he plays he's telling me to keep throwing knifes because he ain't gonna switch tactics. Any attempt to get in will be met by *sign*...neutral jump punch...

I think Cutthroat is better than Commando in this matchup because you have the knife strings for pokes and pressure and the overhead to open him up while Commando can't reliable ex armour command grab or counter his wake up so it exploits Commandos weaknesses and stops it's strengths in it's tracks.
 

cyke_out

Noob
I have a friend who uses Kung Jin Bojutsu and he does alot of neutral jump punches because of the reach and that it leads into a combo. He also waits a lot for me to kano ball and punish on block. So I play the zoning game. Throw out a shitton of knifes to build meter, chip and bring him out of his shell.
Problem is he is really determined to neutral jump punch into combo if I come to him.

Doesn't matter if I poke or i'm going for a throw or i've thrown 50 knifes, neutral jump punch into combo attempt every time. It's actually mentally exhausting trying to condition someone who just doesn't care. By how he plays he's telling me to keep throwing knifes because he ain't gonna switch tactics. Any attempt to get in will be met by *sign*...neutral jump punch...

I think Cutthroat is better than Commando in this matchup because you have the knife strings for pokes and pressure and the overhead to open him up while Commando can't reliable ex armour command grab or counter his wake up so it exploits Commandos weaknesses and stops it's strengths in it's tracks.
You can not start playing footsies or going into pressure or mix ups until your opponent respects your options. Until a player stops jumping cuz he know you will anti air, or stops random teleost cuz he is scared of getting punished, you need to keep your game simple and just let him kill himself. Players that don't change are easy to beat but very boring.

So just keep throwing those knife, if he gets mad let him him the blame is on him.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I have a friend who uses Kung Jin Bojutsu and he does alot of neutral jump punches because of the reach and that it leads into a combo. He also waits a lot for me to kano ball and punish on block. So I play the zoning game. Throw out a shitton of knifes to build meter, chip and bring him out of his shell.
Problem is he is really determined to neutral jump punch into combo if I come to him.

Doesn't matter if I poke or i'm going for a throw or i've thrown 50 knifes, neutral jump punch into combo attempt every time. It's actually mentally exhausting trying to condition someone who just doesn't care. By how he plays he's telling me to keep throwing knifes because he ain't gonna switch tactics. Any attempt to get in will be met by *sign*...neutral jump punch...

I think Cutthroat is better than Commando in this matchup because you have the knife strings for pokes and pressure and the overhead to open him up while Commando can't reliable ex armour command grab or counter his wake up so it exploits Commandos weaknesses and stops it's strengths in it's tracks.
I don't think you need to switch. Like @cyke_out said if they're being predictable let them kill themselves. Zone him out but if he's continuously nuetral jumping then blow him up with air ball, EX air ball, B1 anti air, and backdash until he stops jumping. Don't forget to use your backdash often in this match for more zoning.

You don't have to get in against Bojutsu, he has to get in his range. You don't want to be going face to face with Jin for too long before you create space again.
 

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
Quick question. How can (Cutthroat) Kano deal with people poking with d3 after they do a string?
 

cyke_out

Noob
Quick question. How can (Cutthroat) Kano deal with people poking with d3 after they do a string?
Is the string plus on block or hit? If not punish them before they poke. If you are at disadvantage, block the d3, which is generally minus on block and take the advantage. Back dash to cause a whiff and then punish with a long reaching normal like f2 in cut throat or b2 is cyber. Or use armor to blow through the d3. And finally use f4 to hop over and low crush the d3.
 

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
Is the string plus on block or hit? If not punish them before they poke. If you are at disadvantage, block the d3, which is generally minus on block and take the advantage. Back dash to cause a whiff and then punish with a long reaching normal like f2 in cut throat or b2 is cyber. Or use armor to blow through the d3. And finally use f4 to hop over and low crush the d3.
Thanks, man. I'll have to try it out next time I face a guy that actually knows how to play :^)
 

Decay

King of the Bill

Dunno if y'all watched any of this but at the end you can see my approach against zone heavy kitana
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust

Dunno if y'all watched any of this but at the end you can see my approach against zone heavy kitana
I watched most of it. That was some hella good play. I watched the Erron matches over about 3-4 time and still have no idea how you did it. I'm just not playing this MU good at all against good Erron players. Even when I block the mixups it's like I eventually get caught and Batgirl'd but the 2.0 version.

Any pointers here?

EDIT: I thought it was the one you played Arma. Didn't see this. About to watch now as I've yet to play a good Kitana.