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Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

Dukmunky

Arms Dealer, including all 4 of Goro's
I am getting wrecked by good possessed kenshi- what do you do when playing cuthroat? He just seems to zone me all day then drop on my head to mix up
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I am getting wrecked by good possessed kenshi- what do you do when playing cuthroat? He just seems to zone me all day then drop on my head to mix up
That shouldn't be happening at all. What are the things you are losing too in the match?
 

Dukmunky

Arms Dealer, including all 4 of Goro's
That shouldn't be happening at all. What are the things you are losing too in the match?
The sickle demon zone and the teleport to overhead. I'm playing online so it might be a lag issue, as it feels impossible to punish the teleport.

I can't seem to close the distance without getting hit by a zoning move.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
So, idk if I'm the only one, but I LOVE mixing in MB Air Kano Ball to get that tackle at some clutch points, it's great for throwing people off and carry and everything, I've even sealed some games with the extra damage. I found out tonight at a long local gathering do NOT try and use this against Tanya. I played against a guy using tanya for a solid 2 hours or so and dont think I landed the MB Air Kano Ball a single time and Kano makes a fucking cup of tea after that thing whiffs the recovery frames are so high. Just thought I'd point it out. air kano ball is amazing against her though. You can place it in the air to catch her out of her air teleports.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
So, idk if I'm the only one, but I LOVE mixing in MB Air Kano Ball to get that tackle at some clutch points, it's great for throwing people off and carry and everything, I've even sealed some games with the extra damage. I found out tonight at a long local gathering do NOT try and use this against Tanya. I played against a guy using tanya for a solid 2 hours or so and dont think I landed the MB Air Kano Ball a single time and Kano makes a fucking cup of tea after that thing whiffs the recovery frames are so high. Just thought I'd point it out. air kano ball is amazing against her though. You can place it in the air to catch her out of her air teleports.
Yea it works very good. You often catch people holding block waiting for the low kick and they get tackled. Works most of the time for me too because by the time they try to react it's too late.

Also fought my first real Tanya last night. It was, interesting. It didn't feel too hard but an incredibly weird flow to the matches. I'll need to play it more before I'm sure about what the actual approach should be.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
How are you guys feeling about the sonya matchup? Her jump attacks are driving me crazy.
Sonya is one of the few MU's vs the top 10 that most of us have agreed is at adv. Covert Ops and Demolition is likely in our favor.

Special Forces one the other hand can get a little rough at times.

For sure you can't B1 Her jump attacks because of divekick and her Jip1, and upball' priority isn't too great, especially in this MU. I tend to use uppercuts or block most of the time against her air, with occasional upballs on early reads.
 

mrtom

Noob
If I want to finish off a match I'll do a power up then mb air ball, the extra damage really helps (cutthroat).
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
I was practicing Cybernetic against the CPU in arcade tower mode and noticed that Tanya's teleport goes through normals. IMO this is fkn stupid, Smoke had to use meter to do this and his bf3/fb3 wasn't nearly as threatening in MK9. Essentially Tanya can go full retard with jumps, teles and aerial attacks and you are just gonna have to respect these options. Zoning and anti airing her with b1 is pretty much out of the question.

If Tanya isn't touched this MU is gonna be struggle no matter what variation you choose... I am thinking maybe Cutthroat? It's not like you are gonna anti air her with vanilla b1 anyway and you need to be able to punish her hard if she goes YOLO with her specials. Ball attacks are most likely going to be the best options to stop her jump/tele shenanigans, because if you are late to punish her she will hit you out of the air and might not be able to convert into any real damage.
 

ando1184

Noob
I was practicing Cybernetic against the CPU in arcade tower mode and noticed that Tanya's teleport goes through normals. IMO this is fkn stupid, Smoke had to use meter to do this and his bf3/fb3 wasn't nearly as threatening in MK9. Essentially Tanya can go full retard with jumps, teles and aerial attacks and you are just gonna have to respect these options. Zoning and anti airing her with b1 is pretty much out of the question.

If Tanya isn't touched this MU is gonna be struggle no matter what variation you choose... I am thinking maybe Cutthroat? It's not like you are gonna anti air her with vanilla b1 anyway and you need to be able to punish her hard if she goes YOLO with her specials. Ball attacks are most likely going to be the best options to stop her jump/tele shenanigans, because if you are late to punish her she will hit you out of the air and might not be able to convert into any real damage.
I've been training with a pretty competent Tanya player using naginata. He would do string pressure into up tele, air pogo stick, cancel into jump punch or njp, rinse & repeat. He would sometimes mix in MB tele to keep me honest, anyway this character can lock you down a little bit with this but we can njp her on a good read during teleport and start a good combo. This works for all variations for us, but be wary of the MB tele since it actually has a hitbox and can put us into a combo.

Edit: also, that long range poke with the naginata can be reversal Kano balled on block.
 
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Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
In practice mode again with Tanya atm. Dragon Naginata is a gimmick variation IMO that will be useless once people figure her stuff out. Air pogo is a a crappy option to do after her tele, the real problem is her instant jumping 1, it stays active for a small eternity, can not be uppercutted, upball'd, NJP'd, jabbed and she doesn't even need to do it. Sweep can be used to blow it up but she has other options. If you do nothing her J1 will whiff when she cancels a string into tele that leaves her at point blank distance, but something like d4 or Kobu Jutsu b1 into tele will ensure that you have to deal with her jumping 1 and she can cancel the tele similar to Takeda in Shiray Ryu.... or she can go for the OH/low air drop mix up.

Ok I figured out a way to deal with her strings cancelled into tele: if she tries to escape the corner by cancelling strings into the tele, run towards/under her and let her jumping attacks/low drop/overhead drop whiff. You can whiff punish the low drop by running some distance then run again back towards her and punish, whiffed jump attacks and whiffed overhead drop leave you at an advantage and the Tanya player will most likely not armor after whiffing them as she must be like "Oh shit I whiffed, I better block" this time should be taken to go for the 50/50 in CT or command grab in Commando... buuuut she can blow the run under with a delayed jumping 1, forward dash under her into low block as well gets blown up by this. You can run under pogo stance cancel in CT and punish with f2,1,2 run cancel b1,2,1 xx kanoball for 27% just as her naginata reaches the ground.
 

Carl-L

Sub-Zero hater.
So does anyone have a clue what to do against Johnny?

I'm playing a guy who's good with him and it just seems like a total uphill battle all the time. I dare not go up close with cutthroat and risk having to hold his stupid ass pressure so I stick with cybernetic and throw every damn knife on the planet at him and try to b1 the jumps as best I can but eventually Johnny worms his way in and then I have to hold everything.

it feels like 90% of the match I'm just holding block and it's not fun at all. that said i'm super salty and probably missed loads of things I can punish. anyone know how to deal with the old man?
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
Go into training mode and figure out where you can poke out of the fisticuffs Shit. There are gaps in that string. After the third hit I think you can armor out or backdash. The only JC near me plays stunt double or I'd have a little more specific stuff.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
So does anyone have a clue what to do against Johnny?

I'm playing a guy who's good with him and it just seems like a total uphill battle all the time. I dare not go up close with cutthroat and risk having to hold his stupid ass pressure so I stick with cybernetic and throw every damn knife on the planet at him and try to b1 the jumps as best I can but eventually Johnny worms his way in and then I have to hold everything.

it feels like 90% of the match I'm just holding block and it's not fun at all. that said i'm super salty and probably missed loads of things I can punish. anyone know how to deal with the old man?
Good summary.

Feels like a typical Kano versus top tier match up.
 

Carl-L

Sub-Zero hater.
Go into training mode and figure out where you can poke out of the fisticuffs Shit. There are gaps in that string. After the third hit I think you can armor out or backdash. The only JC near me plays stunt double or I'd have a little more specific stuff.
I have a general idea for the pokes but i do need to go and look at them again. I feel it's more gameplan problems i'm having.

I'm hesitant to put my own pressure on in fear of having the roles reversed and have to take his and i don't feel like zoning will be enough to deal with him. i'm feeling like this might be a matchup where it might be better off switching to another character better suited to deal with Cage.

But i'm sure there's some stuff that could even the MU for Kano, i'm just not seeing it currently.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
Kano pressure can definitely contest with his you just need to put on safe pressure and a good sense of when to defend his. Most of his ways to open you up are overheads so block high most of the time and you're good . I don't have too hard of a time against the SD JC that's here. Take him into training and play him and learn the frames on some of his pressure you have trouble with . Put Kano to be the training dummy and have him reversal.
 

Carl-L

Sub-Zero hater.
Kano pressure can definitely contest with his you just need to put on safe pressure and a good sense of when to defend his. Most of his ways to open you up are overheads so block high most of the time and you're good . I don't have too hard of a time against the SD JC that's here. Take him into training and play him and learn the frames on some of his pressure you have trouble with . Put Kano to be the training dummy and have him reversal.
Will do. Thanks for the tips. I'm probably being too defensive and fearful of Cage
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
So does anyone have a clue what to do against Johnny?

I'm playing a guy who's good with him and it just seems like a total uphill battle all the time. I dare not go up close with cutthroat and risk having to hold his stupid ass pressure so I stick with cybernetic and throw every damn knife on the planet at him and try to b1 the jumps as best I can but eventually Johnny worms his way in and then I have to hold everything.

it feels like 90% of the match I'm just holding block and it's not fun at all. that said i'm super salty and probably missed loads of things I can punish. anyone know how to deal with the old man?
Depends on the variation. Which one?
 

Carl-L

Sub-Zero hater.
Depends on the variation. Which one?
All of them to be honest i'm kind of baffled by him. I feel somewhat confident against stunt double but A-list and fisticuffs run circles around me. I'm thinking Ex kano ball cancelling might be the way to get out of the pressure and create some breathing room to continue chucking knives but it's late here so i'm too tired to try it out.
 

bdizzle2700

gotta stay sharp!
So does anyone have a clue what to do against Johnny?

I'm playing a guy who's good with him and it just seems like a total uphill battle all the time. I dare not go up close with cutthroat and risk having to hold his stupid ass pressure so I stick with cybernetic and throw every damn knife on the planet at him and try to b1 the jumps as best I can but eventually Johnny worms his way in and then I have to hold everything.

it feels like 90% of the match I'm just holding block and it's not fun at all. that said i'm super salty and probably missed loads of things I can punish. anyone know how to deal with the old man?
I play vs dja's Johnny and he's no slouch. My game plan zone him out and send him flying full screen when he ends pressure or makes a mistake. B1 catch his floaty Junp well. I end those combos with up ball to send him full screen. If you read ex flash kick, nuetral duck and punish with 112.(online is harder so d2 or grab at the very least). In general he will try to catch you doing something something with ex nut punch. Punish with b1. So check his meter.alot of back dashes and making him wiff strings for you to then f4,b1,b2( for whatever he might do next) into a combo. Fuzzy guarding 11(3 or 4?) the one with the low kick.and the oh string. So eventually you make it a game of him going for all the risk and you making him pay for it. For fisticuffs. You can back dash b12, or if they loop anytime after theb2. And 4 punches there is enough push back to d3. But that's all I really got for that
Edit: I play cyber
 
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Carl-L

Sub-Zero hater.
I play vs dja's Johnny and he's no slouch. My game plan zone him out and send him flying full screen when he ends pressure or makes a mistake. B1 catch his floaty Junp well. I end those combos with up ball to send him full screen. If you read ex flash kick, nuetral duck and punish with 112.(online is harder so d2 or grab at the very least). In general he will try to catch you doing something something with ex nut punch. Punish with b1. So check his meter.alot of back dashes and making him wiff strings for you to then f4,b1,b2( for whatever he might do next) into a combo. Fuzzy guarding 11(3 or 4?) the one with the low kick.and the oh string. So eventually you make it a game of him going for all the risk and you making him pay for it. For fisticuffs. You can back dash b12, or if they loop anytime after theb2. And 4 punches there is enough push back to d3. But that's all I really got for that
Edit: I play cyber
That's all great stuff thanks.
Looking at it i think it's just my blocking and punishing that needs work. I sit there and block all his stuff for so long that i start to let things get by unpunished.

Is up ball better for pushing back then regular kano ball?
 

bdizzle2700

gotta stay sharp!
That's all great stuff thanks.
Looking at it i think it's just my blocking and punishing that needs work. I sit there and block all his stuff for so long that i start to let things get by unpunished.

Is up ball better for pushing back then regular kano ball?
What I noticed is that with out meter ball knocks them at like jumping distance(close to cyber reset distance) and ending it in a bnb it'll send them practically full screen(liken2 steps back its full screen). So depending where you are, who your facing and life lead, will depend what you should end with. Like if I have the life lead ill end in ball for damage. But vs a scary rush down character ill end in up ball to send them full screen and make them work to get back to me.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
All of them to be honest i'm kind of baffled by him. I feel somewhat confident against stunt double but A-list and fisticuffs run circles around me. I'm thinking Ex kano ball cancelling might be the way to get out of the pressure and create some breathing room to continue chucking knives but it's late here so i'm too tired to try it out.
I haven't faced an A-List much yet so I'm not really too sure about the holes in his pressure and you seem ok with Stunt Double you say so as for Fisticuffs you've just got to zone him and bait him, you've no other choice. But you can't let yourself get put in the corner because it becomes harder to deal with things like B12, not impossible but harder. Just remember if you do end up in the corner and he's B12ing you that blocking low pushes him back more so you can get out quicker. EX Kano Ball cancel is a good option for getting out of pressure, you just need to be careful with your use of it of course because it's unsafe. End your combos with Kano Ball rather than Up Ball because it gives you better positioning and more advantage because Up Ball in a juggle is a quick stand.