General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

@xKhaoTik

I personally don't have a problem w you but why do u answer everything like a dick? The character has been out days, no one is the best and we are all experimenting still.

Anyways. Ending juggles in 1112 in the corner, phase forward(there's a timing to it) and you reverse wake ups, while staying on the same side.

Ending combos in teleport in the corner is useless, end in air throw. You normally get same damage, but a better knockdown.

 

[xKhaoTik]

@xKhaoTik

I personally don't have a problem w you but why do u answer everything like a dick? The character has been out days, no one is the best and we are all experimenting still.

Anyways. Ending juggles in 1112 in the corner, phase forward(there's a timing to it) and you reverse wake ups, while staying on the same side.

Ending combos in teleport in the corner is useless, end in air throw. You normally get same damage, but a better knockdown.

Lol I come off as that but I'm not a dick at all. I just don't like stupidity. I just like to make people look more stupid than they already do lol.

I know it's been a few days but anyone with a brain can realize there is no need to do what dude was saying.

But Na I'm not a dick. Not apologizing tho and if anyone is offended then oh well lol.

 

[SliquidBosselot]

hes built for a smart player, you might need to switch to ermac if you need a char that requires less thought


are you following pokes with 11 combos? common mistake ive had because the first high hit will whiff often, although i love 1112 so much

He's built like a slice of swiss cheese. I can't think of another character with as many holes as smoke.

Once people learn how easy it is to blow up almost every option he has,its not going to be pretty.

It's not my fault you're too ignorant to learn the ins and outs of your character and see why he's going to get blown up hard by a lot of the cast.

 

[ABake]

hes built for a smart player, you might need to switch to ermac if you need a char that requires less thought


are you following pokes with 11 combos? common mistake ive had because the first high hit will whiff often, although i love 1112 so much

I resent that Ermac comment.

 

[Harlequin969]

I've been mixing up between 1112 and 111~PF, once recovered going into f21 to either then hit low or cancel into tele or invis. You can also substitute the f21 for f13. If those are blocked, I'll burn a bar on exSB or exPF and just keep going. I've found that this is a good way to not only use meter, but also build on meter while frustrating the opponent.
The important part of this is to keep the opponent guessing on when it's his turn.

Im going to try and do this a lot mainly because I don't like relying 100% off the vortex.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Seems like i missed a lot.

Tbh, even though Khaotik isnt coming off the right way about it, the vortex is simply the best tool smoke has. Its the central piece of his gameplan and its not like the vortex is going to get any worse cause unreactable 50/50s dont get easier to block.

Anyone who says they can react to b1 (18 frames) is lying. The next argument would be people fuzzying in which you can just delay the low slightly and with s3 phase you have plenty of time to do that.

I dont think people fully understand the power of invincibility on phase quite yet. Its useful in so many ways other than a wake up (which might be its actual worst application).

 

[Redux]

Seems like i missed a lot.

Tbh, even though Khaotik isnt coming off the right way about it, the vortex is simply the best tool smoke has. Its the central piece of his gameplan and its not like the vortex is going to get any worse cause unreactable 50/50s dont get easier to block.

Anyone who says they can react to b1 (18 frames) is lying. The next argument would be people fuzzying in which you can just delay the low slightly and with s3 phase you have plenty of time to do that.

I dont think people fully understand the power of invincibility on phase quite yet. Its useful in so many ways other than a wake up (which might be its actual worst application).

yeah phase let's you whiff punish things you wouldn't normally be able to and deal with situations in the neutral differently. In the corner if you read a wakeup that is safe on block you can phase towards them and punish. smoke is a good punisher and his phase only adds to it.

 

[Smarrgasm]

@Redux
its good for that but what a lot of people arent talking about is the ability to use it in gaps.

Any gap thats normally backdashable or armorable can be phased through which lets smoke punish things only Cassie and now Bo Rai Cho can punish.

A great example would be Raidens B32. This string has a gap but beats armor and backdashes because of its range and multiple hits. However, Smoke simply phases through and gets a (albeit very tight) 111 punish on the other side.

This allows him to punish both of Raidens vortex options unlike almost anyone else.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Seems like i missed a lot.

Tbh, even though Khaotik isnt coming off the right way about it, the vortex is simply the best tool smoke has. Its the central piece of his gameplan and its not like the vortex is going to get any worse cause unreactable 50/50s dont get easier to block.

Anyone who says they can react to b1 (18 frames) is lying. The next argument would be people fuzzying in which you can just delay the low slightly and with s3 phase you have plenty of time to do that.

I dont think people fully understand the power of invincibility on phase quite yet. Its useful in so many ways other than a wake up (which might be its actual worst application).

Yeah phase is ridiculous. No one can truely pressure smoke without a read, and a bad read can either mean a punish or returning to neutral. My only argument is he gets a lot more damage from whiff punishes then he does from mix ups. On top of that, overhead combos are inconsistent (which may be a bug) and can be option selected(may make a video on this) and fuzzied (which I seen u mentioned a counter to anyway). There are other vortex characters in this game that reap a greater reward, have consistency and don't have to commit as hard to start the blender.

He may have a vortex, but not a good one by any means.

Now, do I disagree it's a big part of his game plan? No, if I get a stray hit and can't convert into big damage, I'll restand and take my mix up. He has a "vortex", I'm going to use it. I'm only saying that it's probably the worse vortex in the game as of right now. May as well play impostor shinnok or summoner.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

So I made a few videos going over briefly what the character can kinda do thanks to the info given in this thread.

These are for people just wanting to pick up the character and get a general idea, so it won't help most people in this thread.

The first video goes over his normals, specials and general gameplan.

Second video goes over his vortex and it's options. Also why does it work for new players.

Third is just some special things like F21 and it's uses. As well as other things like using phase. Also go over his gaps. My condolences if I sound like I'm scatterbrained, was nervous recording this.

 

[just_2swift]

Yeah phase is ridiculous. No one can truely pressure smoke without a read, and a bad read can either mean a punish or returning to neutral. My only argument is he gets a lot more damage from whiff punishes then he does from mix ups. On top of that, overhead combos are inconsistent (which may be a bug) and can be option selected(may make a video on this) and fuzzied (which I seen u mentioned a counter to anyway). There are other vortex characters in this game that reap a greater reward, have consistency and don't have to commit as hard to start the blender.

He may have a vortex, but not a good one by any means.

Now, do I disagree it's a big part of his game plan? No, if I get a stray hit and can't convert into big damage, I'll restand and take my mix up. He has a "vortex", I'm going to use it. I'm only saying that it's probably the worse vortex in the game as of right now. May as well play impostor shinnok or summoner.

Or scorpion

 

[boba_buster]

Anyone else aggrovated with how slow smokes njp is?

 

[Poser Paul]

Anyone else aggrovated with how slow smokes njp is?

Takeda 2.0

 

[boba_buster]

Takeda 2.0

What?

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Anyone else aggrovated with how slow smokes njp is?

im spoiled as ex raiden main but what really gets me is vs cyrax and csz how they have that longer hitbox

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I find it crazy how it's already been about... Say, 6 days I think and we already pretty much have the basis of the character figured out.

 

[MrSunshine]

alright i need some help. so ive been working on his corner game by trying to implement ex evaporate after a spear into s3 or 11.

So far im able to get it 100 percent consistently off his oh or low~spear~ex evaporate~s3 or 11. Does 10 percent but guarantees 2 correctly guessed invisible mix ups after wards.

Ive been trying to up the damage with... starter~smoke bomb~njp~4~4~spear~ex evaporate~s3 or 11. Does around mid 20s and also guarantees 2 correctly guessed invisible mix ups.

The thing is the timing is annoying and inconsistent for me with this combo. Im able to get 11 about 50 percent and s3 about 10% lol

Anyone know the how to get it more consistency or another similar combo with the same set up? without wasting two bars obvi and using smoke bomb as the vortex starter

safe 50/50 invisible mix ups boyzzzzz
@xKhaoTik @EMPEROR PRYCE @AK Smarrgasm @just_2swift @Pan1cMode @Scott The Scot

 

[boba_buster]

Anyone found a way to make smoke cloud connect after b3u4extele?

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

lets talk wakeup options, and post-breaker options

 

[Reauxbot]

What the hell. This video convinced me he could combo off his b1 into Smoke Ball.
I guess thats what the meaty thing is all about.
Tried comboing a regular overhead into smoke ball with no results

 

[MajinBerserker]

lets talk wakeup options, and post-breaker options

Post breaker, with the new stamina changes for both characters, I like the walk back game with Smoke. He was long range normals to check the opponent or catch movement (into Smoke Bomb-vortex) and if they immediately try to jump- he has is s4 anti-air option, as well as just a d2 if you're uncertain.
If the opponent tries backing away, too, Smoke doesn't really care. He then can toss a Smoke Bomb to check them or Tele to combat zoning.

 

[jokey77]

Yesterday was the first day when I had the Impression that my smoke can be some sort of threat.

What I found out:
- the vortex can and shall be used, noone ever questioned that. However it works really REALLY great after ex-invis. After exSpear you have three options: 3-phase, 21-phase and 21. Every one can be followed up with a different JIP-angle. JIP, b3 forces the opponent to block high, then low. Feel free to combine this with ex-teleport for another overhead or just go for the smokebomb. I hardly ever had the Opponent block this mixup.
- speaking of the smokebomb: at least against characters with a 7f poke I have consistantly managed to backdash pokes after my sb has been blocked. Especially while beeing invisible this allows you to start your b21-game. B21 while being invisible is very powerful.
- b21 into fade away is a damn strong tool. One should use it to stay away from the corner.

What I still lack:
- I get poked way too much. Even his +2 strings don't help too much, because they all leave smoke standing if you want to follow up with d1, you lose like 2-3 frames for ducking. It doesn't feel like I could crush the opponents poke with f4 (10f) either, nor am I in range for throws (pushback).
- It is pretty much the same with ex-smokebomb. However f42 does work and even another b3~smokebomb did work surptisingly well. I still know no other follow-up.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Yesterday was the first day when I had the Impression that my smoke can be some sort of threat.

What I found out:
- the vortex can and shall be used, noone ever questioned that. However it works really REALLY great after ex-invis. After exSpear you have three options: 3-phase, 21-phase and 21. Every one can be followed up with a different JIP-angle. JIP, b3 forces the opponent to block high, then low. Feel free to combine this with ex-teleport for another overhead or just go for the smokebomb. I hardly ever had the Opponent block this mixup.
- speaking of the smokebomb: at least against characters with a 7f poke I have consistantly managed to backdash pokes after my sb has been blocked. Especially while beeing invisible this allows you to start your b21-game. B21 while being invisible is very powerful.
- b21 into fade away is a damn strong tool. One should use it to stay away from the corner.

What I still lack:
- I get poked way too much. Even his +2 strings don't help too much, because they all leave smoke standing if you want to follow up with d1, you lose like 2-3 frames for ducking. It doesn't feel like I could crush the opponents poke with f4 (10f) either, nor am I in range for throws (pushback).
- It is pretty much the same with ex-smokebomb. However f42 does work and even another b3~smokebomb did work surptisingly well. I still know no other follow-up.

21 into d3 trades w 6 frame d1s at worse. If I'm going for a frame trap vs a masher I use 21 into d3 ex smoke bomb and follow up from there.

1112 into 2 frame walk back puts him out of range of nearly every normal in the game (there are obviously some exceptions) and in perfect range of b2 whiff punish.

So far smoke doesn't have streamlined pressure like some other characters, so generally he'll get his damage from whiff punishes and mix ups. Frame Traps from f43 would be nice because it has a ton of block stun on it, while also being +2. Only problem, which is a huge one, it has a tendency to whiff.

 

[jokey77]

I think his damage comes from the invisible vortex.

Generally one repetition of the vortex (eg jip, b3, bomb, 4, b21-spear, 21) takes pretty much as long as the invisibility lasts. Thus it might be a good idea to start the pressure with a "filler string" like jip, b3-phase or b3d4 or 111 or even b1-phase before going for the actual jip/vortex. Then you might reappear in time for the next invisibility.

 

[boba_buster]

I think his damage comes from the invisible vortex.

Generally one repetition of the vortex (eg jip, b3, bomb, 4, b21-spear, 21) takes pretty much as long as the invisibility lasts. Thus it might be a good idea to start the pressure with a "filler string" like jip, b3-phase or b3d4 or 111 or even b1-phase before going for the actual jip/vortex. Then you might reappear in time for the next invisibility.

Watch out dude , people round these parts don't like people talking bout using all of a characters tools