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Why Sub Zero Should Not Be Nerfed. The GrandMaster Speaks.

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SubZeroIce

SubZeroIce

Runway
S-Z is a very solid character. He could use some frame adjustment but his flaws are extremely glaring. The way no one reacted to a 19 frame F2 at CEO and kept getting hit when there's like a 10 frame space to Fuzzy it is beyond me but whatever.

As long as they fix his low profiling and his hitboxes on female characters, I can live.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
SubZeroIce said:
S-Z is a very solid character. He could use some frame adjustment but his flaws are extremely glaring. The way no one reacted to a 19 frame F2 at CEO and kept getting hit when there's like a 10 frame space to Fuzzy it is beyond me but whatever.

As long as they fix his low profiling and his hitboxes on female characters, I can live.
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That's right! Downplay it like you mean it!
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Ok let’s look outside of if F2 is react able or not. Let’s say it’s 100% unreactable just for the sake of the argument. He still wouldn’t need nerfed because the risk/reward is completely fair.

In thin ice his 50/50 is as follows
Low: low risk, mid 20s% damage. Cool makes sense
OH: full combo punishable, around 14% damage, only when slide crushing blow is loaded is it a legit 50/50

Dead of winter
Low: same as above
OH: full combo punishable, still not breaking 30%, requires a bar.

To be honest when SZ uses the OH he is risking more damage than he is going to gain. Every time. You guys comparing it to MKX didn’t play that game obviously.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Dankster Morgan said:
Ok let’s look outside of if F2 is react able or not. Let’s say it’s 100% unreactable just for the sake of the argument. He still wouldn’t need nerfed because the risk/reward is completely fair.

In thin ice his 50/50 is as follows
Low: low risk, mid 20s% damage. Cool makes sense
OH: full combo punishable, around 14% damage, only when slide crushing blow is loaded is it a legit 50/50

Dead of winter
Low: same as above
OH: full combo punishable, still not breaking 30%, requires a bar.

To be honest when SZ uses the OH he is risking more damage than he is going to gain. Every time. You guys comparing it to MKX didn’t play that game obviously.
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The Sub-Zero community never disappoints with downplay. At least it's reliable.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Dankster Morgan said:
We could actually have a conversation about it and where you disagree if you’d like, instead of just being a condescending ass about it. I’m more than willing to defend any argument I make or help you if you’re struggling with him
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After what happened with Supergirl in Injustice 2 I'm not interested to be honest. I much rather be a condescending ass.
 
SwiftEagle

SwiftEagle

Apprentice
STB Sgt Reed said:
Lol these cage players. Go back to whining about whiffing issues. Sub Zero is fine.
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Whiffing is still a huge problem, and not just for Cage players. Nobody said you can't have your cheap, easily abused 50/50s either. You need scrub characters in fighting games to give beginners a chance. The majority of the time I shit on Scrub Zero players so he's fine by me, but I can understand why others have a hard time. Try using Cage or Shao Khan too, you won't reget it. Your wins will actually feel rewarding since you beat your opponent legitimately.
 
Perk

Perk

coffee now
SwiftEagle said:
Nobody said you can't have your cheap, easily abused 50/50s either. You need scrub characters in fighting games to give beginners a chance
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who hurt you? I've legit never seen people this butthurt about a character in a game before. This thread devolved from actual debate based on the actual data and how it could be tweaked one way or the other, then we go all the way down to shit like "people need to play one of the 6 characters that I deem to have honor & skill, and without using who I say, youre a scrub!"

get over yourselves
 
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SwiftEagle

SwiftEagle

Apprentice
Perk said:
who hurt you? I've legit never seen people this butthurt about a character in a game before. This thread devolved from actual debate based on the actual data and how it could be tweaked one way or the other, then we go all the way down to shit like "people need to play one of the 6 characters that I deem to have honor & skill, and without using who I say, youre a scrub!"

get over yourselves
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who hurt you
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LOL I'll pretend you didn't just say that. Sub Zero isn't overpowered at all. Sub Zero was a problem for me from the start, but not so much now. He's nowhere near Scorpions, Erron Black, or Geras. I didn't bring up Cage to begin with it either. But someone said go cry about whiffing issues? That was a low blow. I had to retaliate, I'm sorry.
 
Perk

Perk

coffee now
SwiftEagle said:
omeone said go cry about whiffing issues
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thats fairplay. I more mean the thread as a whole and screw my formatting.

I thought I endured the worst of the FGC during the "SFV LUL" era bullshit, people shitting on sub is giving me the same headache. Mk11 is a dope game, not without its downsides, but arguably a great entry. Instead of turning threads degenerate with a load of bullshit, lets actually debate facts.
 
SwiftEagle

SwiftEagle

Apprentice
Perk said:
thats fairplay. I more mean the thread as a whole and screw my formatting.

I thought I endured the worst of the FGC during the "SFV LUL" era bullshit, people shitting on sub is giving me the same headache. Mk11 is a dope game, not without its downsides, but arguably a great entry. Instead of turning threads degenerate with a load of bullshit, lets actually debate facts.
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Facts: Sub Zero is not overpowered, but whiffing issues in general are a huge problem.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
You all want facts? Ok, facts.

Johnny Cage is cooler than a ninja who's entire ninja 'thing' is ice. Is sub zero made of ice? Has anyone looked into the possibility that he is? Legitimate line of research there people. Need a college thesis subject? Your welcome. I have a 12f parry that never actually ends. It just goes and goes. Sometimes I throw little green buggery-lookin fireballs. Is it 12f? I read that somewhere so I'll just pass it off as absolutely true. Why does Raiden's stupid ass Raiden Hat low-pro my fireballs? Why don't I have a 10f, advancing, hit confirmable,. cancelable mid? I don't mean why doesn't Johnny, I mean why don't I. Tried to enforce my d1 check game on the security guard at the grocery store and he just disrespected the SHIT out of my frame advantage. I'd say it was lagg, but I don't wanna make excuses.. it was probably lagg tho. I'd like fixed hitboxes. I'd like KBs. I'd like my booger flick fireball animation to be changed to the arcing forceball animation (purely a change in animation, no hit/hurtbox or other changes). Arcing FBs look cool. Sad boogers do not.

Im sorry, but I want to bite my own ear lobe when I read/hear someone talk about how old school players didn't complain they just adapted and worked on outplaying and hoodlee-poo. It's not that the statement is wrong - its that the comparison isn't 1:1 and the nature of expectations have changed dramatically.. When the FG scene was centered around arcades and was pushing fledgling roots into home consoles and the like, games were not patched. Games were physical. They existed in big ass wooden and composite boxes, or in small plastic cartridges.. developers couldnt patch or update.. not without absurd and ruinous expense.. so when a game
 
Matador Fiend

Matador Fiend

Kombatant
GLoRToR said:
I don't think he should be nerfed, I think his options should be just as negative as others'.
I don't want him destroyed, I want his guessing game to be risky, for his overhead and his low to both be heavily punishable if someone guesses right. This is only fair.
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His overhead already is punishable with full combo. why should his low be punishable as well? The character would be trash if both of his options were punishable lol.
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Matador Fiend said:
His overhead already is punishable with full combo. why should his low be punishable as well? The character would be trash if both of his options were punishable lol.
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Funny you should say that because Jade's both options are punishable and she has the same projectile game except hers doesn't guarantee her a combo.
 
Matador Fiend

Matador Fiend

Kombatant
GLoRToR said:
Funny you should say that because Jade's both options are punishable and she has the same projectile game except hers doesn't guarantee her a combo.
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Uh different characters are different? Sub zero also cant go immune to projectiles or get plus frames off of his air projectiles. Ok technically he can get like +2 on air axe, but he has to be barwly off the ground and at max range
 
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