Question Who has the best corner game in MKX?

[myri]

I appreciate the props for my Bo @Kooron Nation.

I'll do a write-up tomorrow @The_Tile , it's late here and I'm going to bed.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

GM Sub

 

[UPR_Nova]

Sorceror, Grandmaster, Spectral and Jax gotta be the S tier right? No order btw. Crystalline and Tempest honorable mention. Reptile isn't half bad either with the Nimble stuff, Noxious chip and Deceptive invisibility. These are just my opinion though.

 

[Zionix]

Cyrax in the corner is Block a HTB or armor out, some characters (sektor/kenshi etc) can't even armor out without being launched. You also make some safe armors unsafe and can even throw the opponent into a launching combo.

All this is meter-less at first and then can be looped for 1 bar each time.

He also has a re-stand with a high net; which leads to a HTB situation and full launch into the above set-up. You can do 40% for 1 bar into net in the corner.

Number 1.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Sub-Zero post F12 knockdown in the corner gets a safe re-clone and a 33/33/33 that is safe vs a lot of characters and some characters have to hold it, not to mention the ice klone in their grill so he will likely get 2 attempts at the 33/33/33. The OH and low options give Sub-Zero a little more than 40% meterless and loop back into its self, throw isn't as damaging, but once again loops.

If Sub doesn't want to do this he can use the close klone for better safety and mix off of hit/throw.

The 2 hit armor isn't as big a hit to Sub as you may think since most of them are unsafe. In MOST cases Sub suffers no consequences for respecting the opponent's wakeup, then attempting his mixup or whatever.

If you don't have meter, or aren't part of some select group of variations, Sub will kill you in the corner. Statistically you aren't going to guess right enough times to survive unless a total fluke situation occurs.

 

[Zionix]

Sub-Zero post F12 knockdown in the corner gets a safe re-clone and a 33/33/33 that is safe vs a lot of characters and some characters have to hold it, not to mention the ice klone in their grill so he will likely get 2 attempts at the 33/33/33. The OH and low options give Sub-Zero a little more than 40% meterless and loop back into its self, throw isn't as damaging, but once again loops.

If Sub doesn't want to do this he can use the close klone for better safety and mix off of hit/throw.

The 2 hit armor isn't as big a hit to Sub as you may think since most of them are unsafe. In MOST cases Sub suffers no consequences for respecting the opponent's wakeup, then attempting his mixup or whatever.

If you don't have meter, or aren't part of some select group of variations, Sub will kill you in the corner. Statistically you aren't going to guess right enough times to survive unless a total fluke situation occurs.

All relevant and true until he faces a character that can special/normal/njp through the clone.

 

[Yer_Da]

Dragon Breath, Summoner and Spectral.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

All relevant and true until he faces a character that can special/normal/njp through the clone.

True but even if they have a move like that the situation is still heavily slanted in Sub's favor. If they wanna jump/njp after a F12 knockdown they will probably get fucked, and once again without meter even with a move like that he is still at a really heavy frame advantage so he still has a chance to mix, its just that those characters don't have guaranteed death, only very high chance of death

 

[IrishMantis]

Spectral is definitely a sleeper

 

[xMEECH]

Instead of just comparing who's offense is dumber, we should look at "who doesn't have a counterpick to their offense". GM can't be top tier corner game when possessed kenshi and mystic ermac blow up any attempt at his corner game. Sorcerer's corner game doesn't mean much against multi-hitting armored moves like kanos ex upball (which also hits him out of his njp and is safe on block). Yet, nobody has a way to nullify BRC's restand and nobody has to get mixed less than someone else. So I would say BRC has a better corner game than GM and Sorcerer (just as 3 random examples) because there aren't counters to BRC's corner game like there are counters to GM's and Quan's.

 

[myri]

It basically comes down to just how many options I have to use against my opponent to keep them where they are and maximise damage to an insane degree.

- Metereless corner bnb's are 34% to 40% NOT INCLUDING tick damage from ground flames after a combo ends.

- I can end my corner combos in db3 for setup into ex dd4, which gives me jailing and frame trap options. I can end my combos in df2, the normal one will jail in my mid, frame trap into my faster options like b1 or s2, ex df2 will guarantee any and every mixup option I have after I end a combo with it.

- Not used very often but he actually has a 100% safe guaranteed meterless corner vortex using a reset off his ji2.

- Setups using the ex fart which can net HUGE damage and involve both a 50/50 and then a read immediately after.

- Using the unblockable reset at different times to keep your opponent off balance.

- Knockdown setup's into fart which blow up all wakeup buttons, meterless wakeups and allow for armour breaking on even some double and triple hit armour moves. When blocked in this setup the fart also jails into all his combo starters.

Basically how I utilise all these is akin to something like this;

So let's say for example I get a ji2 in the corner and I confirm into b233~db1, 21, 3~db4...

Okay so now my opponent is stuck in the fart restand, what do I do? Well I can continue my combo and cash out my damage with df1, b233 into an ender of my choice. Which ender? Depends what I want to do, df2 leaves them standing and me plus so I can what I want for the most part, ex df2 I actually can do whatever I want. db3 guarantees me a stomp if I want it, which again let's me do what I want mostly. Maybe I don't want to do that though, maybe I want more than my 44% ish damage I'd get by the time I'm done with that combo plus tick damage from the ground flames. Instead I backdash and do my ji2 again, slight delay into a string of my choice, could be overhead, could be low, whatever I want into db1 again, combo resets, I get another shot at mid thirty or higher damage for the cost of maybe six or seven percent in my previous combo, all 100% safe because of db1. So I get my reset, my opponent has lost 60% of his health bar already off one reset he didn't see coming. I launch him with db1 like I said and then instead of going into fart, I decide to juggle him. 21, 21, 21, 3~db4. Now my opponent is on the ground with the meaty fart over him and he only has a one hit of armour wakeup. I smack him with 244 and his armour breaks and I get another combo into the same setup if I want, or I can use db2 to cash out damage, or I could go for db3 to get my guaranteed stomp and then use that to get a guaranteed 33/33/33 guess with 244~db3 for that last sliver of health.

Hold up, let's back up. Let's go back to when my opponent is stuck in the fart. I jump in and this time I continue my combo in b233~ex df1. My opponent doesn't react and gets hit by the unblockable, another free thirty to forty percent for me in another frame trap or knockdown stomp setup if I want it. Let's say I go for that ji2 reset into a 50/50 but my opponent starts blocking it. No worries, ji2 and then immediately go into ex df1 and catch your blocking opponent for a full combo. Oh oh, instead maybe when he's in the fart I'll backdash and do an ex fart setup where my 50/50 is guaranteed and you have to guess and then make a read if I'm going to throw you into the fart, in which case neutral duck, or I'll go into db1 which will launch you with the fart cloud too if you get hit. You can't neutral duck that either, 50/50 into a read, enjoy it. I also get about 50% damage off just that. Maybe I'll just throw you into the fart with a grab and not even bother doing f3 grab or b3 grab. Maybe I'll do ji2 into an ex df1 and dash under so you fall into my fart cloud for that swag. If you try and jump out you'll land in the fart cloud and I get my combo anyway. After my df2 I could do a pressure string into fart which is plus on block, allowing to frame trap you with my d1 and go into more pressure once you are respecting it. Speaking of which df2 is safe, -4 on block, db2 is safe, -7 on block with a lot of pushback. Bo's backdash works now so getting away from a d1 after any of these options is simple.

I will just stack mixups on top of mixups, guesses on top of guesses and reads on top of reads until you don't even know what game you're playing anymore and there will be next to no risk to myself in any of this and everytime I get a touch you will fear for your life as you're going to lose at least a third of your health bar and then you're in the blender.

Your best option? Keep me away from you at ALL costs.

That's it, peace. Drink responsibly.

 

[myri]

Instead of just comparing who's offense is dumber, we should look at "who doesn't have a counterpick to their offense". GM can't be top tier corner game when possessed kenshi and mystic ermac blow up any attempt at his corner game. Sorcerer's corner game doesn't mean much against multi-hitting armored moves like kanos ex upball (which also hits him out of his njp and is safe on block). Yet, nobody has a way to nullify BRC's restand and nobody has to get mixed less than someone else. So I would say BRC has a better corner game than GM and Sorcerer (just as 3 random examples) because there aren't counters to BRC's corner game like there are counters to GM's and Quan's.

In particulars to this Smoke was a problem for a long time because he had an invincible wakeup that swapped sides but I found tech to deal with it so yeah, I totally agree with what you say. I think the only thing that really bodies this theory is Mileena's ex fade forward but I think I can apply a similar concept there as well, I just haven't looked into it.

 

[God Confirm]

Sorceror, Grandmaster, Spectral and Jax gotta be the S tier right? No order btw. Crystalline and Tempest honorable mention. Reptile isn't half bad either with the Nimble stuff, Noxious chip and Deceptive invisibility. These are just my opinion though.

The rest are kind of on the money but not Ajax imo nothing really amazing there. Cool mixes but almost all unsafe, and no oki after tick throw

Cyrax in the corner is Block a HTB or armor out, some characters (sektor/kenshi etc) can't even armor out without being launched.

What's the setup that does this and beats tech roll as well as standard get up? I know of one but it does fuck all damage

 

[Tanno]

1) GM Sub Zero
2) Tremor
3) TG and Displacer Raiden
4) DB Bo Rai' Cho
5) Jaqui Briggs
6) Demo Sonya Blade
7) Cyber Sub Zero
8) Hollywood Cassie Cage
9) War God Kotal Khan
10) HQT Predator

Those are the best as far as I know for the corner.

 

[Damaja325]

1) GM Sub Zero
2) Tremor
3) TG and Displacer Raiden
4) DB Bo Rai' Cho
5) Jaqui Briggs
6) Demo Sonya Blade
7) Cyber Sub Zero
8) Hollywood Cassie Cage
9) War God Kotal Khan
10) HQT Predator

Those are the best as far as I know for the corner.

where is quan?

 

[myri]

1) GM Sub Zero
2) Tremor
3) TG and Displacer Raiden
4) DB Bo Rai' Cho
5) Jaqui Briggs
6) Demo Sonya Blade
7) Cyber Sub Zero
8) Hollywood Cassie Cage
9) War God Kotal Khan
10) HQT Predator

Those are the best as far as I know for the corner.

Putting Kotal and Cassie over Quan *smh*

 

[Tanno]

where is quan?

I don't know him well to know if he has a good corner game. Sorry, bro.

 

[Thefish]

With bars of meter I'd have to say db bo. it's "hi, how're you. Bye bye"..

 

[The_Tile]

Yeah maybe it is DB Bo, this is my very short take on him after reading Myri's writeup.

He forces you to guess 1 or 2 mixups every time he puts you in a mixup situation, which lead to high damage and are always safe. He has even more shenanigans if he has meter but after you guess the mixups it's then your turn and you can use that opportunity to escape, unless he's spent bar on the ExFart, but that is probably MU dependant.

However it seems he may struggle to keep the corner after you block those first 1 or 2 mixups as the only way to meterlessly stay plus is to end strings in a fart which leaves a massive gap and IIRC can be interrupted with fast normals off most strings on reaction as long as you're looking out for it.

I'm probably just as biased towards Quan as you are with Bo but one thing Quan seems to do better is keep his turn. Whether it's in Sorcerer or Summoner he has the variation specific tools which help him keep his turn and MbRune which makes anything plus as long as you have a bar. Their damage is pretty similar tbh, in fact Summoner may get more from a 1 bar combo off a 50/50 whereas Sorcerers damage isn't quite as gnarly but he can spend a bar to guarantee the armor portal back out after the combo which is the most important thing. If the armor portal is out then you're fucked.

DB Bo is maybe number 1 but I think Quans corner game is hella underrated and his two variations take up number 2 and 3 easily, with GM, Tremor, HQT, and maybe Jacqui and Cyrax competing for the spots beneath them.

 

[Wigy]

Sub
Quan
Bo

 

[STRYKIE]

Sorry but getting hit by janky overheads that you haven't labbed and spending 1 bar for a restand with unspectacular hit advantage is not grounds for having the best corner game.

So Bo is out.

Instead of just comparing who's offense is dumber, we should look at "who doesn't have a counterpick to their offense". GM can't be top tier corner game when possessed kenshi and mystic ermac blow up any attempt at his corner game. Sorcerer's corner game doesn't mean much against multi-hitting armored moves like kanos ex upball (which also hits him out of his njp and is safe on block). Yet, nobody has a way to nullify BRC's restand and nobody has to get mixed less than someone else. So I would say BRC has a better corner game than GM and Sorcerer (just as 3 random examples) because there aren't counters to BRC's corner game like there are counters to GM's and Quan's.

How does Mystic blow up any attempts at GM's corner game? On one hand he's able to full combo punish B2 with clone up meterlessly sure but that still leaves the door open for B33~shatter (which even if you read that, Ermac lacks an armoured move that can take 2 hits outside of Spectral to get through the gap). Unless you wanna chuck out moves that are -24/-51 on block on a read (I wish I was making those numbers up by the way) he still has to play GM's corner game the same as others up front.

Granted Mystic still wins the matchup because of the ability to fuck over Sub on any unsafe clone cancel midscreen but that's not what this thread is about.

 

[myri]

Sorry but getting hit by janky overheads that you haven't labbed and spending 1 bar for a restand with unspectacular hit advantage is not grounds for having the best corner game.

So Bo is out.

Your lack of understanding about the character hurts, but it's okay, people have been ignoring this character's potential for an entire year, makes it easier for me to bop everyone.

 

[IrishMantis]

Another thing to consider people ain't thinking about is how easy for the char to get the opponent to the corner

 

[myri]

Yeah maybe it is DB Bo, this is my very short take on him after reading Myri's writeup.

He forces you to guess 1 or 2 mixups every time he puts you in a mixup situation, which lead to high damage and are always safe. He has even more shenanigans if he has meter but after you guess the mixups it's then your turn and you can use that opportunity to escape, unless he's spent bar on the ExFart, but that is probably MU dependant.

However it seems he may struggle to keep the corner after you block those first 1 or 2 mixups as the only way to meterlessly stay plus is to end strings in a fart which leaves a massive gap and IIRC can be interrupted with fast normals off most strings on reaction as long as you're looking out for it.

I'm probably just as biased towards Quan as you are with Bo but one thing Quan seems to do better is keep his turn. Whether it's in Sorcerer or Summoner he has the variation specific tools which help him keep his turn and MbRune which makes anything plus as long as you have a bar. Their damage is pretty similar tbh, in fact Summoner may get more from a 1 bar combo off a 50/50 whereas Sorcerers damage isn't quite as gnarly but he can spend a bar to guarantee the armor portal back out after the combo which is the most important thing. If the armor portal is out then you're fucked.

DB Bo is maybe number but I think Quans corner game is hella underrated and his two variations take up number 2 and 3 easily, with GM, Tremor, HQT, and maybe Jacqui and Cyrax competing for the spots beneath them.

Pretty much nailed it on the head, best option is to block, but even then db1 is only -2 and it's totally viable to get a d1~db1 cancel afterwards for a full combo if people don't get their own low poke at the right moment.

 

[myri]

Another thing to consider people ain't thinking about is how easy for the char to get the opponent to the corner

In that regard Sub is defintely the best, Bo does great corner carry too though. Quan seems like his corner carry is quite poor in comparison.