Who do you think has the most balanced variations?

[FL Rushdown]

When did I say mileena isn't bad? All I said was she's not only an offensive character.

Although I will say your argument is pretty silly, any character can do anything. They can all attempt any strategy in the game, so yeah I think how a character is best played is worth saying.

 

[Jeffreys]

Huh? I thought everyone in the zoning academy thread considered Cybernetic the best zoner in the game alongside Quan Chi (or, according to M2Dave, better)?

Quan has the best tools for zoning IMO. Cybernetic is good, just not nearly as powerful.

 

[Sultani]

When did I say mileena isn't bad? All I said was she's not only an offensive character.

Although I will say your argument is pretty silly, any character can do anything. They can all attempt any strategy in the game, so yeah I think how a character is best played is worth saying.

didnt you say you disagreed with what was being said about mileena? The sentiments expressed were that she sucks. If you disagree with that, thats the same thing as saying she's not bad.

i think you misunderstood what i was trying to say. Yeah it sounds silly if you think i said something i didnt, but there's nothing silly about it. Any character can do anything isn't what I said. At all. I said any character can wiff punish or punish mistakes. Is that somehow silly or incorrect? These are the arguments people use to say that Mileena is decent if you play her this way. I was just pointing out that the way she's "best played" is by doing things that have absolutely nothing to do with the character whatsoever because moving and punishing is inclusive of everyone. My point stands. a "good mileena" that punishes your mistakes and plays relatively safe isn't a "good mileena." those things have nothing to do with Mileena.

 

[FL Rushdown]

I disagreed with the statement that mileena is a purely offensive character. That is all.

So knowing your characters ideal punishes and frame data has nothing to do with the character? Really?

A characters design and ideal playstyle is a result of all of the tools they have. I'm just saying that mileenas normals, combos, and specials are better suited as a slightly defensive character than one like outlaw EB.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Mileena is the blanka of this game atm, only good online where you can't punish her for shit.. the 3 ninja ladies got bodied in this game in general. One is now a shitty variation and the other 2 are just.. >__>

As for the actual topic in hand. There's a handful of characters where I can't predict which variation they'll pick
-Coz they're all good: Kano, Scorpion, Reptile, Jax, , Quan Chi, Cassie
-Coz they're all ass: Kenshi, Takeda, Mileena, Kitana, Shinnok

 

[Brown Cow 54]

How has no one said dvorah? I feel like she is the very definition of this. Are they not as balanced as I thought?

 

[themagiccan2]

How has no one said dvorah? I feel like she is the very definition of this. Are they not as balanced as I thought?

I havn't seen Brood Mother much. I think you're right though but swarm queen looks slightly a tad stronger because of the cancels

 

[-narshkajke-]

I disagree with sub-zero. I feel grandmaster easily outshines cryo and unbreakable. Aside from characters that abuse clone glitch (which will inevitably be patched), it's hard to argue a reason to use the others except in specific counter matchups and style.

What clone glitch?

 

[Peckapowa]

summoner quan is universally better that warlock and sorcerer, I don't care what reo did to people. It's better damage mixups zoning anti zoning footsies. It's just better. It's not even close

Erron black marksman is better
Scorpion hellfire is his strongest var.
Sub gm is superior to his other two
Kano cybernetic is superior to the other 2
Buzzsaw lao is superior but tempest has utility
Mos ermac is superior, spectral is good for trolling chars who can't reach him

There's a definite pattern in this game.

 

[Peckapowa]

Mileena is the blanka of this game atm, only good online where you can't punish her for shit.. the 3 ninja ladies got bodied in this game in general. One is now a shitty variation and the other 2 are just.. >__>

As for the actual topic in hand. There's a handful of characters where I can't predict which variation they'll pick
-Coz they're all good: Kano, Scorpion, Reptile, Jax, , Quan Chi, Cassie
-Coz they're all ass: Kenshi, Takeda, Mileena, Kitana, Shinnok

Warlock quan chi sucks, and sorcerer is not bad, summoner is by far superior. I feel spec ops Cassie was will out class the other two. Along with hellfire Scorpion. Inferno is so negative and ninjutsu has nothing to force your hand

 

[Peckapowa]

Whilst I don't disagree with what you're saying on two points, I still feel that what I said about each of the three characters variations being different riffs on an archetype remains true.

Quan does have mix ups, but each variation appears to be built around his ability to control space. Mileena appears to be built around getting in and remaining there as opposed to keeping people out. As for Ermac, Master of Souls and Mystic appear to me to be good at controlling the space in front of him with projectiles and hangs, and punishing hasty advances. That is what I consider to be zoning. Spectral seems to be built on keeping away entirely, so my argument does fall down there.

There is no rule that says you have to play a character to it's archetype, or in any set way at all. It would appear though, looking at the move sets only, each character was designed to have three different approaches to a similar style of play.

Quans not about controlling space, it's about going ham with bats and runes and skull and going ham up close with unblockables and bats and looping it would over and over. Any other strategy is not meta

 

[Peckapowa]

Jax is a good one. I think Kano is a well rounded character able to fill a variety of playstyles based on variation.

B1 b1 b1 b1 b1 b1 b1,knife knife knife knife

Surely cybernetic is included in this varieties playstyles

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

D'vorah

 

[Kroaken]

B1 b1 b1 b1 b1 b1 b1,knife knife knife knife

Surely cybernetic is included in this varieties playstyles

I, with bated breath, await your intellectual thoughts on the matter.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

I'd go with Scorpion. All of his variations are widely used.

Give it a couple of months and you'll see how Sub-Zero is going to be on the top of that list.

I hope so. I've never seen an Unbreakable Sub Zero and would like to. On paper he seems to have a lot of defensive potential.

 

[Peckapowa]

I'd say Kano's variations are well rounded compared to others, but none excel at their archetype.

They're all good, but his lack of a forward travelling overhead and overhead/low strings make Cutthroat a less potent mixup character and his single projectile, although great, only gives Cybernetic one attack vector, where as other zoners get low/high/air and sometimes angled (up laser doesn't count). Commando is the only character that really shines as a grappler, but even then an overhead wouldn't be much to ask for as Lackey Torr gets one, as does Brawler Cassie and (I think) Wrestler Jax.

It appears that, although he is more balanced than other characters (Ermac and Quan Chi remain zoners, Kenshi has two very similar variations, Mileena is all about offence), as a trade off he doesn't excel at anything. That said, he doesn't suck either. I suppose the real benefit of having three balanced variations is that you don't see learning the others as a waste of time, unlike say a Kotal or Kung Lao player, where one variation dwarfs others.

Ermac seems more like an antizoner. Kenshis possessed is about mobility, balanced about trying to zone, and kenjutsusvabout getting punished for unsafe mixups. Mileena imo is defensive / footsies based in piercing.

 

[Kroaken]

Kano is among the most well rounded characters in terms of variations. They are all equally viable in the current state of the game.

 

[PwnStar]

What clone glitch?

The one where characters can straight up go through clones without shattering them. If you do clone and Raiden does his superman non-EX electric fly, in most cases he will fully ignore clone if you're near it. If you block, he'll bounce off sub-zero inside the clone and can freely walk inside it without breaking it. The clone still exists because you can clone shatter and throw it, but it has somehow been fully nullified. Other characters can do this glitch, but Raiden electric fly is utterly fucking retarded right now till they patch this glitch. It's at the point I won't even bother with Grandmaster.

 

[kabelfritz]

Kano is well-balanced

 

[Sultani]

I disagreed with the statement that mileena is a purely offensive character. That is all.

So knowing your characters ideal punishes and frame data has nothing to do with the character? Really?

A characters design and ideal playstyle is a result of all of the tools they have. I'm just saying that mileenas normals, combos, and specials are better suited as a slightly defensive character than one like outlaw EB.

Apparently someone said mileena is a purely offensive character. Guess i missed that.

Knowing which punish to use has nothing to do with everyone's ability to do so. Everyone can. Thats all.

 

[IseeDeadPixels]

I'd go with Beauty and the Cutie.

 

[Slymind]

I would go with Kano and Jax as well.

 

[-narshkajke-]

The one where characters can straight up go through clones without shattering them. If you do clone and Raiden does his superman non-EX electric fly, in most cases he will fully ignore clone if you're near it. If you block, he'll bounce off sub-zero inside the clone and can freely walk inside it without breaking it. The clone still exists because you can clone shatter and throw it, but it has somehow been fully nullified. Other characters can do this glitch, but Raiden electric fly is utterly fucking retarded right now till they patch this glitch. It's at the point I won't even bother with Grandmaster.

Owh that one, I got it not long ago while fighting my friend offline here. He just fly through my clone without anything happening. I still goin' with grandmaster thought, he's the sub that I wanted since mk9. For once I thought the clone glitch is the clone part of Sub corner combo:
B2 B2 1 B12 DB2, the part where he freeze people mid air with his clone.

 

[d3v]

Quan has the best tools for zoning IMO. Cybernetic is good, just not nearly as powerful.

Quan has shit normals though.

 

[KIllaByte]

Quan has shit normals though.

No, Quan's overhead is the best overhead in the game, on its own, ignoring it's lack of safety (until Quan gets low bat out for a near unblockable then a 50-50 right after, gods help.) For its reach, its absolutely the fastest overhead. Hell, it might be the fastest anyway.