What's new

What will Mortal Kombat 11's legacy be if there are no more Kombat Packs/patches?

How would you grade Mortal Kombat 11 if the product were finished?


  • Total voters
    180

BarakaTile

Nerf Everything. Gut Everything. No Fun Allowed.
What are Sheeva's strengths now that dragon stance and stomp have been drastically normalized?
I guess we'll find out. I dunno why they nerfed DStance so quickly when they could have just made it a 2 Slot Move instead.
I don't support the health nerf at all but most people have no sympathy for Sheeva players about the Stomp Nerf.

What has he shown? He tried Robocop at WePlay and lost. Are there any other offline or online tournament results that I am unaware of?
So are you suggesting Robocop needed the extra health? Interesting. I don't think he does but I'm all for listening why you think so.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Do you know how long it takes to code a frame data change?

Do you know how long it takes to code that change and also ensure that it works across multiple consoles/platforms, etc? Or the time/money it takes to test the change once it's made or whether or not the approval us given to make such a change? All on top of staff working on other projects?

Your theory is unsubstantiated. Correlation does not equal causation.
NRS already did all the work and developed a frame data calculator, the days they needed to work their ass out to display correct framedata are over since MK11
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
NRS already did all the work and developed a frame data calculator, the days they needed to work their ass out to display correct framedata are over since MK11
Bro they don't just input a number into the "frame data" field. Rude's saying that it takes dev time to makes these changes.

On another note, I think part the reason you see them adjust block frames so often is that its probably way easier to do then to remove animation and active frames.
 
Topic communication by NRS:
So do I get this right here, because of some assholes hiding behind an internet barrier and insulting developers on "social media", the entire community has to sit this communication "strike" out?

Drama Queen mentality as community managers?
I mean, just go dead silence about a game and just use an official account to post information, so no developer is targeted directly, if you can't handle the "wild" internet.

And I only say it like this because capcom and namco showed me how its done way better.
(And WB is so much bigger, it's mind-blowing to me.)

When you know, stuff you like is getting supported, it's way more interesting to keep playing and be excited about the future. Being in the dark doesn't feel good as a passioned fan to anything.
(And real gamers on the NRS side, should know that ... so in a way, they "torture" their fans on purpose ...)
---
Even tho I am really happy for the patch and I will keep playing because of it, I still really hope to see more support for this game.
This "small" patch to me honestly feels now the game is done. Fixed the biggest complained issue and touched the character that is considered the lowest tier by almost every named player.

If I had one wish towards NRS, if the game is done, please let us know ... if not, take my money!

- see you in the next Kombat League :D
Nmco don't ask me for shit showed better? Namco Tekken is 3? Bad netcoe Namco? Capcom has been doing amazing recently though
 

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
Nmco don't ask me for shit showed better? Namco Tekken is 3? Bad netcoe Namco?
...
  • "Dont ask me for shit" is a direct answer to all the social media spammer.
  • "Namco Tekken is 3?" What? ...
  • I can't speak for ps4/5 but on PC the netcode is great, at least on my end.
(I can react to lows, I can break throws, I never drop combos because of a "delay" + the option to decline Wi-Fi warriors.)

Edit: Do I see this right? You have a Noctis avatar? He is in Tekken7, isn't this nice to you? Why the bitching? I don't need an answer tho
I love MK11 because I can finally play my real main and with the recent patch he looks even more fun to me. As a PC player, I just have to wait for the patch, like always ...
 
Last edited:

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Bro they don't just input a number into the "frame data" field. Rude's saying that it takes dev time to makes these changes.

On another note, I think part the reason you see them adjust block frames so often is that its probably way easier to do then to remove animation and active frames.
It depends on how they set up their custom engine. In a lot of game design teams, they want to separate coding from design, so the coders will expose a lot of design elements so they can be manipulated from the engine interface, rather than having to dig in and recode. So, there literally might be a "frame data field" for any given attack, allowing the designer (not the original coder) to go in and mess with the combat systems without having to write or edit any existing code.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
It depends on how they set up their custom engine. In a lot of game design teams, they want to separate coding from design, so the coders will expose a lot of design elements so they can be manipulated from the engine interface, rather than having to dig in and recode. So, there literally might be a "frame data field" for any given attack, allowing the designer (not the original coder) to go in and mess with the combat systems without having to write or edit any existing code.
Sounds like that online Yale programming course or whatever school it was must be paying off.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
It depends on how they set up their custom engine. In a lot of game design teams, they want to separate coding from design, so the coders will expose a lot of design elements so they can be manipulated from the engine interface, rather than having to dig in and recode. So, there literally might be a "frame data field" for any given attack, allowing the designer (not the original coder) to go in and mess with the combat systems without having to write or edit any existing code.
Point is that it's most likely a more complex process then going into properties and changing a variable
 
What the hell is all this talk about specific interface guesses? The only thing determining what gets done and how fast is the administration.

Coding is not easy mode fun and games, but neither is it this mystery box that no-one knows anything about and you just have to rely on faith in the corporate gods that 'it is really complex and hard'. It's mostly about just getting the green light to what you're allowed to work on / put out.

The only time individual devs can be pointed fingers at, is when their choice to the generic assignment of 'hey maybe we should buff Sheeva a bit, you figure out how' is to choose to buff the hell out of a move that they see from their data was already stomping casuals left and right in its release form.
 
Last edited:

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
If it's anything like MK9-Inj1-MKX (these are the games I've modded) the games use a tweakvar system (and for the record mk11 has been confirmed by thethiny to have that system) where float variables (a few are ints, like block hit level) determine the x of a y thing, such as how much damage attack1 of sub zero does.
In the case of how speed of an entire attack worked, it's determined via a float var, usually 1.00x as a default. Then there's what's called breakframe variables - these tell at which point the character is fully recovered, from either hit, whiff, block. If it's victim, it's how many frames of recovery the victim has to go thru from a certain attack.
Editing any of these is a cinch, even as back as MK9 where you had bugged variables thaqt did nothing or shared property values (like noob's slide recovery for instance is shared between regular and ex and has no specific recovery vars for hit, whiff and block).
It's a bit trickier if the idea is just to edit the speed of something to have specific amounts of startup but even that can be eventually done with calculations and trial and error. Editing recovery though, is really easy, it's much easier than tweaking the speed of an attack to get it to a certain point.
IMO, I think NRS didn't do some of these edits simply because of their balance philosophy with the patches in MK11 - they wanted to avoid MKX type situations where characters got overhauled and the tier list dramatically shifted. YMMV if it was a good call to make or not with this game.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I think this game will be remembered as the one where some mechanics that worked and had been tested through years in previous games were removed for no reason, while new mechanics that nobody asked for tried to replace them without success. Innovation is not always the answer.

I'm sure that a significant part of MK11 sells were a direct consequence of how much MKX was loved. MK12 will have the burden of having 11 as a predecessor.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Bro they don't just input a number into the "frame data" field. Rude's saying that it takes dev time to makes these changes.

On another note, I think part the reason you see them adjust block frames so often is that its probably way easier to do then to remove animation and active frames.
No, they don't
what i'm saying is that the calculator, will always displays data based on whoever recovered first after blockstun has ended.
So they don't tweak the data in there for display, they tweak recovery frames of moves, and the calculator does what it is supposed to do.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
Honestly, I feel like this game will mostly be remembered for its lack of direction. Even in interviews leading up to release NRS didn’t know whether or not they wanted customs in the game. We found out what, the week of release?

To me, that’s crazy. I can’t think of another fighting game developer in recent memory that wasn’t sure what game they’d be releasing, or which direction they’d like to take it by the time the game was coming out. Then, they made up new mechanics (rather haphazardly, IMO) to cover other new mechanics that people were complaining about (the breakaway system).

Then Covid hits, and even if NRS did finally decide on a direction they no longer had the ability to implement changes. I think this is a wakeup call. NRS, as a company, needs to define how they want their next game to play and stick with it (sure, this can be changed up in future seasons, but I digress), and they need to quit biting off more than they can chew. Trying to balance countless variations, moves, etc. is a monumental task for even the most seasoned FG devs, and I feel like NRS would benefit from a more focused design, especially considering their two year cycle.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, I feel like this game will mostly be remembered for its lack of direction. Even in interviews leading up to release NRS didn’t know whether or not they wanted customs in the game. We found out what, the week of release?

To me, that’s crazy. I can’t think of another fighting game developer in recent memory that wasn’t sure what game they’d be releasing, or which direction they’d like to take it by the time the game was coming out. Then, they made up new mechanics (rather haphazardly, IMO) to cover other new mechanics that people were complaining about (the breakaway system).

Then Covid hits, and even if NRS did finally decide on a direction they no longer had the ability to implement changes. I think this is a wakeup call. NRS, as a company, needs to define how they want their next game to play and stick with it (sure, this can be changed up in future seasons, but I digress), and they need to quit biting off more than they can chew. Trying to balance countless variations, moves, etc. is a monumental task for even the most seasoned FG devs, and I feel like NRS would benefit from a more focused design, especially considering their two year cycle.
Absolutely the game felt unfinished at launch, at least mechanically and in certain parts of design, which was oddly in stark contrast to the extremely high polish for the game's visuals, artistic design, tutorials, etc.

Someone else said above that the game will be remembered as the most polarizing game NetherRealm Studios has released, and I think that's probably the simplest and best answer. There really doesn't seem like much middle ground with the release.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
Absolutely the game felt unfinished at launch, at least mechanically and in certain parts of design
  • Main online ranked mode wasn't available, and was delayed, for months
  • Many customization items / outfits were flat out unable to be unlocked yet
  • Many customization items / outfits were able to be unlocked but had either incorrect or missing unlock hints
  • Base variations on all characters were random combinations, many of which had open slots. None matched the tournament / ranked presets at all
  • Some characters just did not play the same game. Pokes were especially egregious as many enforced absolutely nothing. This issue was bad enough that an entire balance batch had to be dedicated to it to fix it (said patch coming a year after launch)
  • Some characters felt (and still feel) incomplete, hanging on only by 1-2 overtuned variation specials while others have both great base kit power and variation options
  • Some preset variations had MKX-style ideas in mind: a core focus with moves all complementing each other for that focus. Most were obviously slapped together with nothing really in mind
  • Despite developer comments on non-preset variation specials "Never being intended for competitive play," there were (and still are over 2 years later) many tournament preset variation specials that were/are completely useless, if not an active detriment
  • Aside from D2 and grab, Krushing Blows felt like they were developed character by character instead of with the overall cast in mind. Compare Geras/Liu to Johnny/Shao KB requirements
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
If the game we have now came out back then it'd be so good with two years of patches.

This game's support dying so soon is such a waste and it pisses me off. This Marvel game better be good
 

Pizza

Thrill Kill
  • Main online ranked mode wasn't available, and was delayed, for months
  • Many customization items / outfits were flat out unable to be unlocked yet
  • Many customization items / outfits were able to be unlocked but had either incorrect or missing unlock hints
  • Base variations on all characters were random combinations, many of which had open slots. None matched the tournament / ranked presets at all
  • Some characters just did not play the same game. Pokes were especially egregious as many enforced absolutely nothing. This issue was bad enough that an entire balance batch had to be dedicated to it to fix it (said patch coming a year after launch)
  • Some characters felt (and still feel) incomplete, hanging on only by 1-2 overtuned variation specials while others have both great base kit power and variation options
  • Some preset variations had MKX-style ideas in mind: a core focus with moves all complementing each other for that focus. Most were obviously slapped together with nothing really in mind
  • Despite developer comments on non-preset variation specials "Never being intended for competitive play," there were (and still are over 2 years later) many tournament preset variation specials that were/are completely useless, if not an active detriment
  • Aside from D2 and grab, Krushing Blows felt like they were developed character by character instead of with the overall cast in mind. Compare Geras/Liu to Johnny/Shao KB requirements
lol I just remembered that augment slot that was locked for a year, before it was changed to the Jinsei augment or some shit like that and it brought with it a complete overhaul of the augment system.
 
Last edited:

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Am I the only one that finds it crazy that you STILL can't dash after "FINISH HIM/HER" pops? Hope you didn't need to dash to convert your combo into brute lol.

Also, if the killing hit is an amped ice ball (since it does damage), you're likely to be robbed of the follow-up unless you happen to be right on top of them. Even though the game is "paused" and you can't do anything, they're thawing out the entire time. As soon as you regain control, they thaw (or drop if they were airborne).

Not sure if there are other stun moves that get screwed by the pause like that. Wouldn't surprise me if there were.
 
lol I just remembered that augment slot that was locked for a year, before it was changed to the Jinsei augment or some shit like that and it brought it a complete overhaul of the augment system.
I've actually been playing Towers of Time a lot over the last few weeks, since I recently picked up and am unlocking things for the Xbox One version of the game. I've got to say, they improved the Towers a lot; I'm actually having a lot of fun with the mode.

Overall, I think the game has an excellent Single Player modes, content, and good replayability, it's the competitive side that I see as really having issues.

Of course, it's the competative mode where the heart and soul of a fighting game truly lies.
 
Am I the only one that finds it crazy that you STILL can't dash after "FINISH HIM/HER" pops? Hope you didn't need to dash to convert your combo into brute lol.

Also, if the killing hit is an amped ice ball (since it does damage), you're likely to be robbed of the follow-up unless you happen to be right on top of them. Even though the game is "paused" and you can't do anything, they're thawing out the entire time. As soon as you regain control, they thaw (or drop if they were airborne).

Not sure if there are other stun moves that get screwed by the pause like that. Wouldn't surprise me if there were.
True, but keep in mind, in all previous games, you couldn't carry a kombo past "Finish Him/Her" at all, this is the first game that let you do this, which actually makes it easier to do many Brutalities.