Discussion What is actually wrong with MKXL

[GAV]

What is actually wrong with MKXL?

Nothing.

What is wrong is that everyone thinks the game should be catered to their preferences.

It is what it is.

 

[Addhad]

Just out of interest who can do this besides Lackey Torr?

Mos Ermac gets 39% 1 bar off ex tele mid screen

 

[Rude]

That's why I don't play it, but I believe I also have a right to voice my opinion.

And with a years experience and a few tournament wins (local) under my belt, as well as a 7 year stint with fighting games in general I think my opinion is one that can be taken seriously.

Although, it's understandable why people like this game. It just seems like most people that like the game just the way it is, it's their very first fighting game.

It's most certainly not my first fighting game. In fact, when I started playing there were no patches. No hotfixes. The game you bought was the way it was unless the company released a new version.

You either played the game for what it was, or you stopped.

I'm not sure what pumping your chest about local wins is supposed to mean to anyone, but good for you.

Pryce, you were declaring this game dead around CEO time and we now have a patch and 10k pot bonus for SCR to look forward to. I'm not sure how your opinion CAN be taken seriously.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

It's most certainly not my first fighting game. In fact, when I started playing there were no patches. No hotfixes. The game you bought was the way it was unless the company released a new version.

You either played the game for what it was, or you stopped.

I'm not sure what pumping your chest about local wins is supposed to mean to anyone, but good for you.

Pryce, you were declaring this game dead around CEO time and we now have a patch and 10k pot bonus for SCR to look forward to. I'm not sure how your opinion CAN be taken seriously.

Dead as in dwindling numbers which is factual. As each tournament passes the numbers do drop for the game despite the enormous and generous pot bonuses given by nrs.

If you're offering 10K and can't get 100-150 ppl then the game is dying. Although the announcement of a patch has drawn new breath into the game.

If you have all this experience in fighting games and can't see the glaring flaws this game presents then IDK what to tell you man. There's a reason a lot of the older players have stopped playing the game, and it's not because they aren't good at it.

I don't play the game because I'm tired of guess work. Just like everyone else that's quit the game.

 

[Eldriken]

Having to guess from "Fight!" until "Finish Him/Her!" is what's wrong with this game.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Having to guess from "Fight!" until "Finish Him/Her!" is what's wrong with this game.

Not even wrong, great summary.

 

[KingHippo]

If you have all this experience in fighting games and can't see the glaring flaws this game presents then IDK what to tell you man.

That's pretty condescending. I too have a lot of experience with fighters, and I have my issues (I don't play for a reason) but I don't see them as universal, "This is a bad game" flaws, it's just not my preference. That's an important distinction.

What determines a "good game" in fgc lingo is largely determined by 1) How good the person determining the game was and 2) If it followed "rules" that don't actually exist.

 

[SHAOLIN]

I did like the first & last statement you made, but. . .

These people think that every fighter should have a homogenized set of rules that allows this game to play like however their favorite fighter plays. "Footsies" as short hand agenda-pushing for, "this game doesn't play the way I want it to, so it's the game's fault."

I have a problems with this statement though.

I feel like every FGs needs to have some set of rules that which it follows, so that the game can have a clear cut meta.

Let me ask you a question? What are the rules of MKX? Do NRS have a set goal on how they want there game to be played or is it all Pablo-vision?

Not saying MKX or future NRS titles needs to play like street fighter, but there needs to be rules in place, so the games is not out of wack.

 

[Rude]

Dead as in dwindling numbers which is factual. As each tournament passes the numbers do drop for the game despite the enormous and generous pot bonuses given by nrs.

If you're offering 10K and can't get 100-150 ppl then the game is dying. Although the announcement of a patch has drawn new breath into the game.

If you have all this experience in fighting games and can't see the glaring flaws this game presents then IDK what to tell you man. There's a reason a lot of the older players have stopped playing the game, and it's not because they aren't good at it.

I don't play the game because I'm tired of guess work. Just like everyone else that's quit the game.

You were saying the game was dead after a 200 man Major, which isn't factual at all.

Who said I think the game is perfect? Please quote that.

The game isn't perfect but news flash: Every fighting game has flaws and things their communities don't like about it.

The difference is that while I fully acknowledge the game isn't for everyone and it's definitely not perfect, I don't care. I like the game despite all that. Instead of tearing and drawing up design docs, I accept the game for what it is and do my best with it.

It's very simple: Accept the game for what it is and play it, or keep trying to shove the game into this box of what it isn't and never will be. One of these options will never lead to anything but negativity.

I'll let you figure out which.

 

[trufenix]

I think at this point every single attack in this game leads to an unseeable unpredictable 50/50.

 

[Rude]

I did like the first & last statement you made, but. . .


I have a problems with this statement though.

I feel like every FGs needs to have some set of rules that which it follows, so that the game can have a clear cut meta.

Let me ask you a question? What are the rules of MKX? Do NRS have a set goal on how they want there game to be played or is it all Pablo-vision?

Not saying MKX or future NRS titles needs to play like street fighter, but there needs to be rules in place, so the games is not out of wack.

The reality is that every fighting game, while requiring fundamentals to play effectively, stress different aspects.

Some games are neutral heavy and focus on footsies and spacing.

Other games are faster paced and stress execution, fast reactions, and good reads. Read-based games do exist and there is nothing wrong with it.

You wouldn't play Guilty Gear the same way you'd play MK9, for example. The neutral game just isn't the same and that's fine.

It seems to me, kinda similar to how people treated Injustice, that they want MKX to be a different game than it is. If you keep holding it to what it isn't, you will never be satisfied.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

You were saying the game was dead after a 200 man Major, which isn't factual at all.

Who said I think the game is perfect? Please quote that.

The game isn't perfect but news flash: Every fighting game has flaws and things their communities don't like about it.

The difference is that while I fully acknowledge the game isn't for everyone and it's definitely not perfect, I don't care. I like the game despite all that. Instead of tearing and drawing up design docs, I accept the game for what it is and do my best with it.

It's very simple: Accept the game for what it is and play it, or keep trying to shove the game into this box of what it isn't and never will be. One of these options will never lead to anything but negativity.

I'll let you figure out which.

All I gave was my opinion on what was wrong with the game and then you came in with this elitist "if you don't play anymore then don't comment" attitude. Maybe if the game wasn't based around guess work I would play still, maybe Yomi would still play it more, maybe pig would, maybe Tom, cdjr etc etc.

I never claimed you said the game was perfect either. I'm just saying it has glaring flaws which makes it unappealing to a lot of this community. Every other thread is about some kind of bullshit in game that people are tired of dealing with.

And if the game didn't have glaring flaws, do you think they'd be doing another balance patch to try and fix it?

I'm sorry, I just don't see the game being at evo next year and if it is, I'll hold that. Right now, I just see dwindling numbers and a competitive fanbase that's tired of guess work and dealing with Alien.

It's the damn cycle that happens before and after every NRS game haven't you been around long enough to see it?

But I digress, you're a cool dude and I'd rather not spoil our relationship as associates (being neutral posters on TYM) over a petty disagreement. Have fun with MKX and wish you well in all your future endeavors.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Whatever we were able to gather and put together we already did. What remains is hope that NRS did the right thing.

 

[hkriderz]

All I gave was my opinion on what was wrong with the game and then you came in with this elitist "if you don't play anymore then don't comment" attitude. Maybe if the game wasn't based around guess work I would play still, maybe Yomi would still play it more, maybe pig would, maybe Tom, cdjr etc etc.

I never claimed you said the game was perfect either. I'm just saying it has glaring flaws which makes it unappealing to a lot of this community. Every other thread is about some kind of bullshit in game that people are tired of dealing with.

And if the game didn't have glaring flaws, do you think they'd be doing another balance patch to try and fix it?

I'm sorry, I just don't see the game being at evo next year and if it is, I'll hold that. Right now, I just see dwindling numbers and a competitive fanbase that's tired of guess work and dealing with Alien.

It's the damn cycle that happens before and after every NRS game haven't you been around long enough to see it?

But I digress, you're a cool dude and I'd rather not spoil our relationship as associates (being neutral posters on TYM) over a petty disagreement. Have fun with MKX and wish you well in all your future endeavors.

If this was just your average game, then saying "if you don't like it and complain, then don't play" attitude is very valid. But this game has a tournament scene, which means placings, which means money. When you depend on the game to win and get money but you lose because of the glaring issues with this game, it's very crippling and hurts the scene as a whole. Let's not beat around the bush, plenty of players have lost in this game due to dem coin flips leading to 40+damage, jump ins that they tried to AA but was impossible, safe armor, mega plus frames or some of the character breaking bugs. That's the main problem with the game and it's scene and why it's supposedly dying. And why people have put so much hope on the patch.

TL;DR I agree with you lol

 

[deathstroke187]

i have no problem with armors or advancing normals this is mortal kombat not SF or tekken.
this is a very offensive and momentum based game. The problem with this game is just balancing some character that force you too hold block forever cause they are + on true SAFE 50/50 like sonya.

 

[Skedar70]

If this was just your average game, then saying "if you don't like it and complain, then don't play" attitude is very valid. But this game has a tournament scene, which means placings, which means money. When you depend on the game to win and get money but you lose because of the glaring issues with this game, it's very crippling and hurts the scene as a whole. Let's not beat around the bush, plenty of players have lost in this game due to dem coin flips leading to 40+damage, jump ins that they tried to AA but was impossible, safe armor, mega plus frames or some of the character breaking bugs. That's the main problem with the game and it's scene and why it's supposedly dying. And why people have put so much hope on the patch.

TL;DR I agree with you lol

"Lose because of glaring issues with this game" "lost in this game due to dem coin flips" ??? what??. If this were true than the same people would not be winning all the tournaments. Fox, foxy, scar, dragon, hayatei, cowboy are always placing. If MKX is a game of chance than the same people wouldn't be placing consistently. That is the issue with the game, everyone blames their loses on the game instead of admitting that they made mistakes or simple got out played. This isn't a game issue, players need a change of attitude.

 

[Rathalos]

I've always felt armor moves were too all-purpose and do way too much. Like, there are armor attacks that work well not only as general pressure defense, but also operate as anti-zoning options, anti-footsies, punishment,etc. And then some characters have a ton of armor attacks, a lot of the time having different answers to handle.

I feel like NRS games would benefit from using traditional invincibility in place of armor. Like something like Jax EX dash punch being projectile and throw invincible, while EX gotcha has either armor or strike and throw invincibility would be a better alternative. Or for Alien, instead of having a ton of armor options, two of which being 50/50s, something like EX tail grab is projectile invincible, and EX flip is strike and throw invincible would handle dealing with him on wakeup and reduce his ability to play anti-zone without eliminating it. Shit like that...just examples.

I support this.
Armor is too good to be handed out like candy.
Especially when the game has no true armor breaking outside of fast multi hit moves.

I also very much agree about fast advancing normals.
Have always been way too good IMO.
They can have their place as a tool, but they need to be balanced better.
And they really should never be safe.

 

[trufenix]

The amateur game design in this thread is strong. I'd love to be in the design meeting where someone puts "nobody ask for any x, it'll ruin the game" on the white board.

 

[Juggs]

It seems to me, kinda similar to how people treated Injustice, that they want MKX to be a different game than it is. If you keep holding it to what it isn't, you will never be satisfied.

While that is true, you can definitely be objective in your criticism of a game. For instance armor attacks and armored wakeups have a disproportionate risk to reward ratio. Or that the 50/50's, most of them at least, are too good. They lead on average to 25%+ combos, some are safe on block, some lead back into the same guessing situation, and these are all within a game that is super easy to get in on your opponent due to the run, lack of good zoning options, lack of good reliable and consistent anti airs and the strength of jump in attacks.

At this point though I agree the complaining about the core elements of the game is kinda pointless. Unless you're hoping NRS sees it and decides to change it up in their next game because of your post. Unlikely but not impossible I SAY!

 

[IrishMantis]

its all being said

But I never really found advancing normals a problem in this game (unless it cancels on whiff) I usually bait them pretty easy

But disjointed hurt box is a whole different issue, they are not so easy to beat out

 

[hkriderz]

"Lose because of glaring issues with this game" "lost in this game due to dem coin flips" ??? what??. If this were true than the same people would not be winning all the tournaments. Fox, foxy, scar, dragon, hayatei, cowboy are always placing. If MKX is a game of chance than the same people wouldn't be placing consistently. That is the issue with the game, everyone blames their loses on the game instead of admitting that they made mistakes or simple got out played. This isn't a game issue, players need a change of attitude.

I agree, and those players are highly talented and they use top tier characters. So it makes sense that they consistently place.

And I'm not saying all top players lost to 50 50s or hitbox or other bugs, but it sometimes happens. If that was the case then naming the top 5 players would be a mess and placings would be inconsistent depending on if it's your lucky day lol.

You really can't say you haven't seen someon get caught and beat in a vortex where the blocked low instead of high. Watching sonic do a comeback with shotgun Jacqui is a testament to this. Or even alien and countless others. Or maybe the game winning combo dropped because of a female hitbox or another bug and they got whiff punished and lost. Like when sonic beat DJT at summer jam because tremors ex rock completely whiffed in the corner. Some of these moments happen in MkX and it hurts the game. Not always, but a lot.

 

[Rude]

While that is true, you can definitely be objective in your criticism of a game. For instance armor attacks and armored wakeups have a disproportionate risk to reward ratio. Or that the 50/50's, most of them at least, are too good. They lead on average to 25%+ combos, some are safe on block, some lead back into the same guessing situation, and these are all within a game that is super easy to get in on your opponent due to the run, lack of good zoning options, lack of good reliable and consistent anti airs and the strength of jump in attacks.

At this point though I agree the complaining about the core elements of the game is kinda pointless. Unless you're hoping NRS sees it and decides to change it up in their next game because of your post. Unlikely but not impossible I SAY!

The only armor I can think of that is safe and launches are Tremor Crystal shatter, Goro Punchwalk, F/T Lackey DP. Who else?

I could go through a list if you like, but I'd wager that there are more unsafe launchers in the game than safe ones, by a pretty wide margin.

There is a LOT of misinformation, exaggeration, and out and out lies that get pushed here as truth about the game.

I don't think there's anything elitist about being realistic and saying that you should play the game you have or shut up about it. (Not you, specifically)

If people's personal pet peeves about the game don't change with this patch, they'll have to deal with it. It's not like people don't know what the common complaints are. It's not like any new ground is actually being broken with these threads. It's the same dead horses beaten over and over and over and over again.

 

[STRYKIE]

Mos Ermac gets 39% 1 bar off ex tele mid screen

That's on wake-up. I'm talking about who else can straight up inflict 40% or more from an armoured move, not interested in "well if you do this, and then this".

 

[GAV]

The only armor I can think of that is safe and launches are Tremor Crystal shatter, Goro Punchwalk, F/T Lackey DP. Who else?

I could go through a list if you like, but I'd wager that there are more unsafe launchers in the game than safe ones, by a pretty wide margin.

There is a LOT of misinformation, exaggeration, and out and out lies that get pushed here as truth about the game.

I don't think there's anything elitist about being realistic and saying that you should play the game you have or shut up about it. (Not you, specifically)

If people's personal pet peeves about the game don't change with this patch, they'll have to deal with it. It's not like people don't know what the common complaints are. It's not like any new ground is actually being broken with these threads. It's the same dead horses beaten over and over and over and over again.

 

[Tweedy]

Bruhs need to understand that the way that another game is, isn't "the way".

Just because you started with MK9 and it was one way, and this game isn't, doesn't mean that this game is bad. If that were the case then every game would just be MK9, or Street Fighter. Those are the games that most people reference on here.

I agree that neutral armor does nothing but add randomness to the game. While some randomness is fine(fighting games are essentially complex rock-paper-scissors), I personally feel like armored launchers that can be used at any point, is a little too much.

Another thing that really grinds my gears are set ups where you can pretty much os any need for meaty time. Two examples of this are Kotal's jump 1 after saw blade, Takeda's deep NJP after fist flurry, Kung Jin's jump back 1 in the corner, etc.

Some complaints I see though, just scream "make this game like this other game BITCH", like not wanting variety on jump ins, wanting player 1 advantage, wanting pokes to be punishable, etc.