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What Does MKX Benefit From Having A Block Button?

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I had somebody on Facebook furiously messaging me months ago about this very complaint. Dude just never backed down and tried to tell me I knew nothing about Fighting Games.

You're not that guy are you? :DOGE
Lol I remember this. I wonder if any of those advocates are on TYM....
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Yes in SF2. This isnt SF2 anymore. We are up to SFV with the upcoming title.
Just to note, Capcom had to add a new mechanic to "address" a glitch that involved crossups that lead to scenarios where you had to block a certain way within a frame or two, and was not fixable without going pretty far into the engine itself. So it's not entirely like crossups still don't have problems.

One of the better implementations of crossups I've seen are in Under Night In-Birth, where crossups do not occur if the jumping normal is done on the front side first, so you actually have to cross over before you can force the opponent to block in another direction.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
I'll give you one that I've put on here before: Blocking reveals your intent while crouching and standing, and during oki. There is more deception with a back to block game. I can't just sit next to an opponent in a MK game and hide my intent.

In MK you have to stand and block in order to protect yourself when not attacking. In a back to block game your opponent has to be more careful because if you're just crouching or standing or moving you could switch to block at any given moment or you could already be blocking. There's no way to know, but in MK you know right away because you can see what they're doing.
That's not a reason why it's objectively better, that's just a difference. Also, you can crouch block in MK too, you don't have to stand and block in order to protect yourself.
You included the word objectively, so you basically just validated my point.

Thank you.
Otherwise it's just an opinion parading around as a fact, aka useless.
 

Biggs

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
I'll try to address some of these "unblockables" or "hard-toblockables," across multiple games:

SF4: Unblockables became a thing from programming error. These unblockables did not exist in the first version of SF4 but later became apparent from the later iterations. DWU mechanic in USF4 solved this issue.

Marvel: Yes it is possible to setup real unblockables with high and low due to assist calls. But thats why Marvel games has always been about neutral game. Especially in UMVC3 where there is ToDs. Dont put yourself into the situation and you wont see the unblockables. Even without the unblockables, the ToD's are much scarier. Most setups that are not on incoming means you're resetting them meaning more chance of them getting away [Alpha Counter, Snap Back assist or character, Super with invisibility, ect.]. A ToD is more preferred option. As far as on incoming such as Zero, again this falls into the neutral aspect. Fast games like Xrd and Marvel heavily rely on having very strong neutral game. This is the meta of Marvel. Theres also Firebrand who have unblockable. With or without a block button, firebrands unblockable will work since it breaks guard. Avoid this by killing FB and winning neutral game. Even then, people are now figuring out ways against Apologymans FB unblockable.

Basically dont put yourself into a situation where a possible unblockable can be set up. If you do end up in that situation then you lost neutral game and got outplayed.

Xrd: Eddie/Zato unblockable..which is about 1-2F to block it. Again neutral. But with the upcoming update, it should be a lot easier to block the unblockable. Same with Millia. In fact a lot of GG players are crying because their cheap techs wont be as effective.

If there is a setup that you dont know how to get out of, simply hit training mode, recreate the situation and find ways out of it because its there.

Anymore games?
Left right unblockables did exist in sf4, they may not have looked the same but they were indeed there
 

Biggs

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
An ambiguous cross-up is a setup that takes advantage of the b2b mechanic. You seem to not understand what an ambiguous cross-up is and I'm getting tired of typing "ambiguous". An ambiguous cross-up doesn't always cross you up, that's the point. It sometimes looks like you will be crossed up but instead the opponent hits in front of you, meaning you get hit because you expected it to cross-up.
An ambiguous cross-up will always cross you up. The ambiguous part comes from how you cannot tell where it will hit, or it looks like it will hit in front. Ambiguous cross-ups always hit cross-up. That is why they are called cross-ups. Ambiguous jump ins are not the same as ambiguous cross-ups
 

AnaboliChris

Master of Magnetism
Left right unblockables also existed in MVC3 if my memory serves me well
Lol no I've never heard of that. Once you block one side, it doesnt matter whether the assist hits the other side or not, it will automatically block it. High then assist low is a different story or vice versa.
 

Faded Dreams V

Retired June 2012. Unretired June 2013.
Probably stated already, but the most obvious, non-meta reason for a block button is simple: teleports. Mortal Kombat is a series heavy on these. If MK9 had back to block, Smoke's teleport, for example, would be very unfair.

I don't need to remind anyone of the petitions to ban Scorpion because of his teleport when he was released for Injustice...
 

Biggs

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Lol no I've never heard of that. Once you block one side, it doesnt matter whether the assist hits the other side or not, it will automatically block it. High then assist low is a different story or vice versa.
I remember hearing that the blocking system was changed from mvc3 to umvc3, having trouble trying to find a source for that after all these years. Will continue looking for it.
Here are examples of unblockables in sf4.
 

AnaboliChris

Master of Magnetism
I remember hearing that the blocking system was changed from mvc3 to umvc3, having trouble trying to find a source for that after all these years. Will continue looking for it.
Here are examples of unblockables in sf4.
Think you're mistaking the hitbox. Back in MVC3, people with hitbox could block both ways ..basically like the block button. When UMvC3 came around, they fixed the hitbox so that you could no longer block both directions [left and right]. In fact, they were very close to banning the hitbox.

Hitbox as in hardware:
http://media.psnstores.com/images/layout.jpg
 
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OG Mannimal

OG "OG Mannimal" Mannimal
I personally don't see any benefits to having a block button, but it's MK and MK has always had one, and they're not going to change that now.
 

Biggs

FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Think you're mistaking the hitbox. Back in MVC3, people with hitbox could block both ways ..basically like the block button. When UMvC3 came around, they fixed the hitbox so that you could no longer block both directions [left and right].

Hitbox as in hardware:
http://media.psnstores.com/images/layout.jpg
I might be. Never crossed my mind that I could be mistaking the old hitbox thing. Surprised they never fully banned those at the time
 
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Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Ambiguous cross-ups =/= cross-ups. I have no problem with regular cross-ups.
The ambiguous 50/50 cross-up is hardly braindead. Why, you ask?

Because in order for your opponent to put you in that situation, YOU have to have fallen for something he did to knock YOU down.

It's your own fault, really. He has to knock YOU down before he can apply the ambiguous cross-up. If it's not off of a knockdown, than he's just jumping and why aren't you anti-airing him?

Don't be mad at the cross-up for making you guess. Be mad at yourself for not defending yourself better to avoid being put in that situation to begin with.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
The ambiguous 50/50 cross-up is hardly braindead. Why, you ask?

Because in order for your opponent to put you in that situation, YOU have to have fallen for something he did to knock YOU down.

It's your own fault, really. He has to knock YOU down before he can apply the ambiguous cross-up. If it's not off of a knockdown, than he's just jumping and why aren't you anti-airing him?

Don't be mad at the cross-up for making you guess. Be mad at yourself for not defending yourself better to avoid being put in that situation to begin with.
Why do you and Anabolichris keep using this talking point? If this was a legitimate line of reasoning, infinites would be accepted and sought after, afterall, it's YOUR fault that YOU got hit by it. Gtfo with that. You can justify the bullshit however you want, it doesn't make it any less bullshit. Getting a knockdown isn't something hard to do, it happens a lot and even the best get hit by them constantly.

I really can't wait to see you guys never get knocked down, you must be godlike.
 

Geochron

Noob
I've never understood why most 2D games are back-to-block, and why there aren't very many 2D games with block buttons. Block buttons make more sense within the "reality" of a game. Blocking is an action, like attacking or parrying. Blocking is more like attacking than moving. It often involves the character holding up their hands, or some kind of shield, and they are always stationary. Blocking is not the same as moving backwards. So why is the most common method for blocking the same input as moving backwards? I've never understood that. And why shouldn't a character be able to advance while still blocking? Fighters can do that in real life, so why not put it in a game? Why does walking backwards have to go hand in hand with blocking?

The only reason cross-ups are a thing is because back-to-block is a thing. Without back-to-block, cross-ups wouldn't exist. Having a block button doesn't "eliminate" cross-ups. Having back-to-block creates cross-ups. The only reason people think cross-ups are a good thing is because they've become used to holding back to block and are used to games that have cross-ups. If back-to-block was never a thing, and all games had block buttons, and then all of a sudden there was a back-to-block game, people would bitch about cross-ups and say they were broken and cheap. I mean what exactly is a cross-up, anyways? Within the reality of the game, within the imaginary cartoon fight that is going on...how the hell do you even explain a cross-up? Like I'm blocking, the opponent jumps, and all of a sudden I'm not blocking? Or I don't know if I'm blocking or not? I mean if you really think about it, cross-ups are fucking weird and don't make any sense. We've just become so used to them that they have become a staple in fighting games, and thus are considered the "default", while games that don't have them are considered strange. I seriously don't get it.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Why do you and Anabolichris keep using this talking point? If this was a legitimate line of reasoning, infinites would be accepted and sought after, afterall, it's YOUR fault that YOU got hit by it. Gtfo with that. You can justify the bullshit however you want, it doesn't make it any less bullshit. Getting a knockdown isn't something hard to do, it happens a lot and even the best get hit by them constantly.

I really can't wait to see you guys never get knocked down, you must be godlike.
Because there are no other 50/50s in fighting games besides ambiguous cross-ups, right?

Back to block is fine.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Because there are no other 50/50s in fighting games besides ambiguous cross-ups, right?

Back to block is fine.
Never said it wasn't "fine". I addressed the question of the benefit of a block button, the best benefit to me is not having to deal with bullshit 50/50 ambiguous cross-ups. 50/50's will still exist, but there will be one less one to have to deal with. Ambiguous cross-ups in particular are especially dumb because you're not making an educated guess or predicting, you're just straight up guessing because many times even your opponent doesn't know which side they will land on. The fact that a situation like that exists is retarded. Doesn't mean I don't like B2B games or think B2B is bad though.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Never said it wasn't "fine". I addressed the question of the benefit of a block button, the best benefit to me is not having to deal with bullshit 50/50 ambiguous cross-ups. 50/50's will still exist, but there will be one less one to have to deal with. Ambiguous cross-ups in particular are especially dumb because you're not making an educated guess or predicting, you're just straight up guessing because many times even your opponent doesn't know which side they will land on. The fact that a situation like that exists is retarded. Doesn't mean I don't like B2B games or think B2B is bad though.
So if ambiguous cross-ups are scrubby and dumb, and its essentially JUST a 50/50, then all 50/50s are dumb, right? Even ones you get to do off of safe jumps such as Scorpion after a tele hits in MK9, etc, etc.

They're apart of fighting games. Adapt.