Question - Kenshi What changes Kenshi deserves if there is a new patch?

[Immortal]

Sonic and DJT said that but Reo and Zyphox said he's good, so..? Just because a char/variation isn't used in tourny doesn't mean he isn't viable or good.

So.. nothing. You clearly have a set opinion based on pretty much hmm.. nothing.

All of Kenshi mains think he is bad, most if not almost all top players think Kenshi is bad (low tier). Nobody think he is tournament viable (at this point in time i even doubt Reo still think Kenshi is good).

But of course you have a right to your own opinion.

 

[snort]

So.. nothing. You clearly have a set opinion based on pretty much hmm.. nothing.

All of Kenshi mains think he is bad, most if not almost all top players think Kenshi is bad (low tier). Nobody think he is tournament viable (at this point in time i even doubt Reo still think Kenshi is good).

But of course you have a right to your own opinion.

And my opinion is they've all been influenced by the crying and complaining. When you have popular players like Pig saying how bad Kenshi is with every damn loss he takes it influences others to believe the same. The bandwagon is so full people are falling out of the sides.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Kenshi is a bottom 3 character who is severely outclassed by better characters. Outclassed is the problem. I don't think Kenjustsu is a bad variation and it would be considered balanced(no pun intended) under normal circumstances. It just so happens that there are MUCH better characters than Kenshi. Kenjustsu's issue isn't "im terrible at what I do", it's "you do what I do but FAR better". He is even dwarfed by the MID tier characters like Reptile, Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Kotal Kahn, etc.. without even touching to top tier he is already in trouble.

Not TERRIBLE(keep in mind I'm talking about Kenjutsu), just utterly redundant with no unique attributes to him that another character doesn't do better. People only who love the character and feel some connection to him continue to play him.

That's my opinion on it, take it or leave it.

 

[Immortal]

And my opinion is they've all been influenced by the crying and complaining. When you have popular players like Pig saying how bad Kenshi is with every damn loss he takes it influences others to believe the same. The bandwagon is so full people are falling out of the sides.

First of all that would mean you think Pig is wrong. Based on what? On what do you base your opinion on Kenshi?

Second many of us play Kenshi as long as Pig some even longer, doubt that everybody got influenced by him. Many of use voiced our concern about Kenshi on TYM even before Pig did.

But to be clear i have almost the same opinion on Kenshi as he has. Which obviously means imo he is right.

 

[snort]

First of all that would mean you think Pig is wrong. Based on what? On what do you base your opinion on Kenshi?

Second many of us play Kenshi as long as Pig some even longer, doubt that everybody got influenced by him. Many of use voiced our concern about Kenshi on TYM even before Pig did.

But to be clear i have almost the same opinion on Kenshi as he has. Which obviously means imo he is right.

Hasn't Pig been playing him since the first day? How could some play Kenshi longer? And sure people have been influenced, especially new people to the game.
Again, IMO I think he is viable, especially possessed. But I don't want to argue about it anymore.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Hasn't Pig been playing him since the first day? How could some play Kenshi longer? And sure people have been influenced, especially new people to the game.
Again, IMO I think he is viable, especially possessed. But I don't want to argue about it anymore.

Lmao you totally ducked where he asked why you think he's viable and what you base that off of

 

[snort]

Lmao you totally ducked where he asked why you think he's viable and what you base that off of

I've never played a kenshi before and i've never seen a top player play him before. Maybe I should have broken down frame data huh?

 

[coconutshrimp]

I've never played a kenshi before and i've never seen a top player play him before. Maybe I should have broken down frame data huh?

Let me tell you something, you don't say a character is good or viable and have nothing to base it off of. And the frame data for Kenshi is really nothing special, except his specials. Rising Karma is fine the way it is but Push and EX Push should be less negative and EX Push specifically should be at least +5 or +6. Tele Flurry on whiff is beyond horrendous at -43 for a 9% space control move, that needs to be toned down to at least -30, and EX Tele flurry serves no purpose other than to slap on a little bit of damage to combos. EX Overhead slash has no purpose, and we've suggested ways to fix this shit plenty of times, but what happens when we do? We get called whiners and are told to git gud. Mhm ya okay

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Not being sarcastic but did those guys realy drop him or are you saying top players don't even choose Kenshi?

Yes

Dropped for alien and cage respectively

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Yes

Dropped for alien and cage respectively

Oh ok, and obviously Alien and Cage are top tiers. Cool man I just thought of maining Kenshi and wanted info.

 

[x-azeez]

Agree 100% !!!! Add that to his amazing normals , , is amazing overheads , his amazing pressure , and his amazing reset ability , and his top 2 again lol........GTFO BRO

- for Balanced Kenshi. If EX Rising Karma (( EX DB1 )) became +6 on block he'll have the following options:

1. Safe Wake-Ups.
2. Safe Reversals.
3. if it connects on hit, it will lead to 31% (( Midscreen )) and send the opponent full screen if you end it with BF3.
4. if blocked, he can do a follow up B1 into another EX RK

Add that to his amazing normals

- Balanced Kenshi has amazing normals that can be used in the neutral and some decent normals to be used in-close.

is amazing overheads

- in Balanced Kenshi, the only overhead he needs is a faster DB4 by 3-4 frames. (( the cuurent one is fine ))

his amazing pressure

- Balanced Kenshi doesn't have an amazing close pressure.. but has an amazing pressure from Full & Mid Screen With his zoning tools and Normals like B1 which is a good Mid Screen tool to use if the opponent let go of the block button in anticipation of a Tele-Flurry.

- can pressure up-close with with good strings like 441 ( +2 )

and his amazing reset ability

- Balanced Kenshi would not need an Amazing reset ability if EX RK is +6 on block.

- In General, Balanced Kenshi doesn't need a reset ability.

and his top 2 again lol

- EX RK is -17 on block and is a good armored launcher special, making it +6 on block would be too good and immediately place him Top 1 in the game. EDIT: due to the 4 following reasons i listed above.

GTFO BRO

no sir, i will not GTFO BRO. if you think EX RK being +6 on block doesn't make him Top 2 Atleast. then that means that you haven't used Balanced Kenshi at all and don't know how this move is good in its current state.

 

[x-azeez]

Better backdash
Slightly less whiff recovery on b1
More range on f2, i struggle to punish some moves properly with him.
Maybe slightly faster d4/better range d3
111 not being inexplicably punishable.

i agree

 

[x-azeez]

Good buff suggestions for Balanced Kenshi:

- DB4 & EX DB4 doesn't go away if Kenshi is hit (( this is annoying for us Balanced Kenshi players ))

- BF3 is a single hitting special move instead of a 3-hitting special move. (( this would help his zoning better ))

- the new BF3 on hit send the opponent full-screen. (( same as the old one ))

 

[coconutshrimp]

Good buff suggestions for Balanced Kenshi:

- DB4 & EX DB4 doesn't go away if Kenshi is hit (( this is annoying for us Balanced Kenshi players ))

- BF3 is a single hitting special move instead of a 3-hitting special move. (( this would help his zoning better ))

- the new BF3 on hit send the opponent full-screen. (( same as the old one ))

These will definitely help him during trades, Kenshi practically loses all trades right so it would help him a lot, however would this new version of Tele Flurry still have the splat knockdown? Because if it doesn't, that messes up his corner knockdown game

 

[x-azeez]

These will definitely help him during trades, Kenshi practically loses all trades right so it would help him a lot, however would this new version of Tele Flurry still have the splat knockdown? Because if it doesn't, that messes up his corner knockdown game

yeah it will have the splat knockdown.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

I agree with most of what you wrote, but ending strings with Overhead Slice is safer than Teleflurry. Overhead Slice is more like -8 on block with the same amount of pushback as Teleflurry (the in-game frame data has Overhead Slice as -10 but it's wrong). For example, Sub-Zero can punish a string that ends with Teleflurry with his slide but not a string that ends with Overhead Slice. But it's possible Kung Lao can punish a strings that ends with both Overhead Slice and Teleflurry with Ex Spin.

D4 is a solid poke that's best used to set up mixups on hit. Cancelling D4 to Teleflurry on block pulls Kenshi toward his opponent allowing Kenshi to be punished. Athough cancelling it with his Overhead Slice in Possessed and Balanced every once and a while can bait a reversal from the opponent who tries to Ex through the the gap between the D4 and special move.

B1 is a solid poke that's great for Possessed so he can setup a high/low mixup. But even though it's good, it's not hit confirmable like Mileena's B12 (which has an 11 frame startup and has no hurtbox where Mileena holds her sais in contrast to Kenshi's 13 frame B1).

Just so we're on the same page I'm talking about cancelling into teleflurry in Balanced.

Also, teleflurry doesn't vacuum Kenshi into the opponent, instead it pushes him back so he remains safe against the majority of the cast. As for the characters I mentioned earlier who can punish D4~teleflurry on block, just don't do it on them since they can punish it. Not a huge talking point in my eyes since he still retains everything else.

Also I wasn't trying to full blown say B1 > B12 (No hurtbox always beats having longer reach), was trying to point out a very good positive about it. I forgot to mention that B1 even armor breaks too.

Kenshi is viable in both Possessed and Kenjutsu, there is always an opportunity to use those variations if the heavy belief of Balanced is trash bothers anyone. And again, I don't deny he still might be a bottom 5 character tho.

People saying stuff like Kenshi should get a safe EX RK says more about the player base than anything.

So , basicly you want to kill ppl with s1 d4 ? !! And how arE you going to use that heavy arsenal , if a cage or kung a lao are next to YOU doing insane shit like 11 11 11 d3 ?? kenshi 2 viable variations and one decent ? wich one is decent ?!!! balanced ? The one he gets punish just for farting ....?!!

Seems like you need to spend some time away from the computer. If you can't even have a reasonable discussion there's no reason to even speak to you.

 

[ismael4790]

Although there are many possibilities to buff Balanced, I'm starting to think that the mb teleflurry I mentioned before could be a simple way to boost him.

His push and overhead slice should get better, also some of his strings/normals, but mb teleflurry would be THE change that finally would make the opponents respect a bit his zoning.

 

[Jack Burton]

Just so we're on the same page I'm talking about cancelling into teleflurry in Balanced.

Also, teleflurry doesn't vacuum Kenshi into the opponent, instead it pushes him back so he remains safe against the majority of the cast. As for the characters I mentioned earlier who can punish D4~teleflurry on block, just don't do it on them since they can punish it. Not a huge talking point in my eyes since he still retains everything else.

Also I wasn't trying to full blown say B1 > B12 (No hurtbox always beats having longer reach), was trying to point out a very good positive about it. I forgot to mention that B1 even armor breaks too.

Kenshi is viable in both Possessed and Kenjutsu, there is always an opportunity to use those variations if the heavy belief of Balanced is trash bothers anyone. And again, I don't deny he still might be a bottom 5 character tho.

People saying stuff like Kenshi should get a safe EX RK says more about the player base than anything.

Seems like you need to spend some time away from the computer. If you can't even have a reasonable discussion there's no reason to even speak to you.

Thanks for the response!

Balance is the only variation with Teleflurry, so we're on the same page

Kenshi canceling his D4 into Teleflurry on block does suck Kenshi towards his opponent slightly because Kenshi moves forward as he does Teleflurry. I tested it extensively as I was investigating how to maximize his D4 a while back. I can make a video demonstrating this, but may take a few days because I've never made a YouTube vid before and I'm work at the moment (the adult life, sigh, lol)

Oh, I definitely agree with you on his B1. I was doing some research on the Mileena matchup and I was having nightmares about her B12, lol! Which was why I went to a further explanation like I did.

Kenjutsu and Possessed appear to be his best variations. I honestly don't care about his viability because I love the character and I want to see more of his tools used by other Kenshi players and be developed more. If I want viability, I'll have another character ready.

NRS tried giving Kenshi a safe Raising Karma that pushed opponents half screen away and was 0 on block and that wasn't received well by everyone who wasn't a Kenshi main back in MK9, lol. He doesn't need it. Personally I think he just needs better frames on Regular Spirit Change so he can control the neutral better than he can now (for Balanced).

How long have you been a Kenshi main? I'm thinking of getting a list together of everyone who still uses the character

 

[Crusty]

what is a mod ?!! A moderator of the site ? is that it ? your saying if i dont do has you order im out , right ? is that it ?

First of all, please write in coherent sentences because I barely understood what you meant till a few minutes ago.

Second, yes, a moderator of this site. @Alien Substance is a mod, and a lead mod I should add.

There are rules to this site you have to adhere to.
You'll find them right here:

https://testyourmight.com/threads/the-tym-community-rules-rv1-5-updated-6-8-15.26900/

 

[Alien Substance]

UAU i didnt know my father was on TYM !!!! Are you serious saying that you are going to teach me how to be civil ??!! You cant tell people what do , thats not how you talk to people . SERIOUS MEN ...

As a Lead Moderator, of course I can. And as a Lead Mod, I give you a three-day time-out for your behavior.

If you can manage to have a civil discussion, you'll prolong your stay here. If you continue in your ways, you will not be welcome here. As @Crusty Clown posted, the rules of TYM are there for you to read and adhere to. Once you return from your banishment, you are free to PM me for help in changing your attitude and learning how arguments, debates and discussions work. I wish you good luck for your sake and for the sake of the forums. Thank you.
-----

This thread has been cleaned. Carry on with wishing for Kenshi buffs!

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

Call me a maniac, but I'm a player who dropped Quan for Kenshi during the pre-patch days because....he was fun. Kenshi in my opinion is just a really cool design and an overall fun character to play as. I'll throw in my two cents on some buffs so here it goes. Balanced is by no means a garbage character. No way in hell top tier or maybe even mid tier, but he just requires a whole lot of thinking and strategy to win. Even then, he still needs help. Ex OH slash should allow for a free teleflurry follow up from full screen, and ex push should be +6 on block. I honestly wouldn't make any changes to normal teleflurry, other than maybe shave off some whiff recovery frames. As for ex teleflurry however, that move should be a mid. Or as stated by @ismael4790, give Kenshi a MB follow up to teleflurry after a whiff to instill a mind game from full screen for a bar, which I think is quite brilliant, so props to him for coming up with that.

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

As for Kenjutsu, I would make his normal push slightly less negative, and makes his ex push plus on block by maybe 3 or 6 frames. And just maybe make his ex db4 have faster startup so it can become a reliable anti air like ex rising karma. And for Possessed, that character seems just fine to me but I'm sure it could use more.

 

[Yoaks]

Call me a maniac, but I'm a player who dropped Quan for Kenshi during the pre-patch days because....he was fun. Kenshi in my opinion is just a really cool design and an overall fun character to play as. I'll throw in my two cents on some buffs so here it goes. Balanced is by no means a garbage character. No way in hell top tier or maybe even mid tier, but he just requires a whole lot of thinking and strategy to win. Even then, he still needs help. Ex OH slash should allow for a free teleflurry follow up from full screen, and ex push should be +6 on block. I honestly wouldn't make any changes to normal teleflurry, other than maybe shave off some whiff recovery frames. As for ex teleflurry however, that move should be a mid. Or as stated by @ismael4790, give Kenshi a MB follow up to teleflurry after a whiff to instill a mind game from full screen for a bar, which I think is quite brilliant, so props to him for coming up with that.

Dude I dropped Mileena for Kenshi. Your not the only one who's crazy lol.

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

Dude I dropped Mileena for Kenshi. Your not the only one who's crazy lol.

Lol well it depends on wether you dropped pre-patch or current patch Mileena for Kenshi.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Dude I dropped Mileena for Kenshi. Your not the only one who's crazy lol.

I don't blame you. Mileena is so dull to play as.