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We all love to complain so lets have at it! Which character is THE WORST?

Just which character is the worst right now?

  • Total voters
    232
M

magandi

Apprentice
anyone who doesn't say cetrion hasn't played her yet. her string are shit and every projectile is a huge risk. half the cast has some random easy get in move. they really tried to kill zoning after maximillians minions complained so much. i only play cetrion against my friend who is much worse than me. i don't want to cry for buffs so early but come on whats the point of that shitty rock throw?


edit: my main is not cetrion. i'm not a bitch who plays a shitty character and complains on tym about how my character needs buff. thats why i play erron.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
Evil Canadian said:
For choices that are not immediately obvious I would ask if you could maybe elaborate why you think they are bad? Cause I think raiden is straight up good.

quick counterpoint example:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121643075296645127
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pretty weak example imo - like that crushing blow isn;t happening much with all the wakeup options and that moves dinky range. Damage isn't everything. His db2 in variation1 (storm cell>) being duckable on the third hit is really bad news for him. He's essentially a turtle / bare bones footsie chracter , losing that safe check with pushback hurts,.the only thing i see opening that variation up depends on the frame data of his in place teleport. Otherwise by using normals in the neutral he's putting himself into pressure opportunities. Eventually during a lame match the offensive chars will beat him, and his teleport is difficult to react to zoning consistently with due to the startup (its not 1 frame like mk9). We'll see with him though, being able to teleport midscreen is strong.
 
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The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Evil Canadian said:
Of course, but that's the mix. Its not so much about the krushing blow itself, but the threat of it. You hit it, its 50% damage anywhere on screen. So the enemy wants to do anything to not be hit by it, so that's when you kill them. The threat of it is what does the damage, which lets you land your low starters into full combos, your throws, your jump attacks etc. It has to be respected so much, that it lets you hit them with anything else.
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I really don't believe this tbh. I've played many games with Raiden and the only way to reliably set up that KB is ending your corner combos with B2 to set up the next one. Midscreen I struggle to believe you will ever land two reactable overheads in a row against someone who knows the mu, especially since it resets neutral on hit and then if you do ANY other move you lose your kb.

Oh yeah and it's death on whiff and block with awful range.
Marinjuana said:
I'm surprised people are talking about Raiden being bad. Seems solid to me, Sparkport and Superman are as good as they have ever been. They gave him neutral, a nice low and he has that nice hit confirm in Thunder Wave. And people are probably sleeping on Quick Charge.
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No idea about quick charge, but the first variation just had bad frames on everything. Anything that leads to damage is punishable, even B12 is around - 10.

Just to clarify, I don't think he's awful per se, but I feel like this is just Raiden up play.
 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
The_Tile said:
I really don't believe this tbh. I've played many games with Raiden and the only way to reliably set up that KB is ending your corner combos with B2 to set up the next one. Midscreen I struggle to believe you will ever land two reactable overheads in a row against someone who knows the mu, especially since it resets neutral on hit and then if you do ANY other move you lose your kb.
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Then I don't know what to tell you other than you need more experience and you are not doing a lot of stuff. Raiden can set up a oh/low/throw mix off any f2 that connects(don't special cancel it), a move that has incredible range thats safe on block. Raiden is not only not bad, he is a strong character. You are fixated on losing the KB and it literally doesn't matter, its the threat of the KB that's strong. Let alone the everything else he has which is tons of stuff. Raiden has more options available to him than most the cast.
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Evil Canadian said:
Then I don't know what to tell you other than you need more experience and you are not doing a lot of stuff. Raiden can set up a oh/low/throw mix off any f2 that connects(don't special cancel it), a move that has incredible range thats safe on block. Raiden is not only not bad, he is a strong character. You are fixated on losing the KB and it literally doesn't matter, its the threat of the KB that's strong. Let alone the everything else he has which is tons of stuff. Raiden has more options available to him than most the cast.
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I'm fixated on losing the krushing blow because the kb and mix is the main reason you've gave for Raiden being good so far.

You keep saying "threat of the kb", what threat? Unless you have them cornered there's is no threat of the kb off it midscreen for the reasons I've already listed, mainly slow startup and long range. If you hit me with a B2 midscreen (which you probably won't, it's reactable) you knock me too far back to get another B2. There is no threat, I'll continue playing as I usually do against him.

F2 is a good normal but why would you want to use a high footsie tool to get like 10% damage into shitty mix when most of the cast are getting big boy damage off advancing normals, a lot of them mids and a lot of which can be hitconfirmed or made safe.

When I first looked at Raiden I thought he was looking hella strong, after looking into it and playing him for a while I think he's pretty meh. Not exactly good but not bad.

P.S. If you're clapping people with B2 twice every game like you're making it out maybe you need to play better players.
 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
The_Tile said:
If you hit me with a B2 midscreen (which you probably won't, it's reactable) you knock me too far back to get another B2. There is no threat, I'll continue playing as I usually do against him.
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You literally dash forward after b2 hits and you are so advantage you can hit it(or anything else) mad meaty. It has tons of frame advantage on knockdown, you must have not even tried to figure this out, You are nowhere at all too far away. You can easily set it up midscreen off any f2 that hits in a 3 way mix the enemy has to submit to. Its not a "shitty mix" as you force b2/throw(also has kb)/b3 into 30+% on the spot and they have to guess right. You have the complete wrong mindset of what the character is about. What he is offering you are not looking for, and obviously not understanding. Raiden is mad strong, period.
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Evil Canadian said:
You literally dash forward after b2 hits and you are so advantage you can hit it(or anything else) mad meaty. It has tons of frame advantage on knockdown, you must have not even tried to figure this out, You are nowhere at all too far away. You can easily set it up midscreen off any f2 that hits in a 3 way mix the enemy has to submit to. Its not a "shitty mix" as you force b2/throw(also has kb)/b3 into 30+% on the spot and they have to guess right. You have the complete wrong mindset of what the character is about. What he is offering you are not looking for, and obviously not understanding. Raiden is mad strong, period.
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What he is offering definitely isn't what I'm looking for, I already know that. Before I just got fixated on the kb, safety is the main reason I think he isn't mad strong. Even if he has got strong mix, which I still don't think it's that strong anyway but I'm open to eat my words on that as you do actually seem to know more than me and I can't go on the game right now to lab, I do still think he's too unsafe to be considered mad strong with the likes of Sonya, Geras, Skarlet etc.

I'm gonna stop though before we turn this into the Raiden gen discussion. I just think he's pretty average and my mind still hasn't changed.
 
Malec

Malec

Apprentice
The Problem is, everybody looks at his character and think, "oh my character doesn't have crazy +frames, no crazy mids, no crazy mixups, no 40% combos, my character is pretty shitty", but all characters got toned down a lot, its not the crazy 50/50 Vortex game anymore, its slower, its footsy based and I like it for it. Its way to early to tell if anybody is THAT BAD.

They only stupid thing are those Tournament Variations, pretty much every variation has at least one move, that nobody would have put in there.

Exampel Kotal Kahn: 1. Variation, God Ray? who the fuck cares? give him a Totem or the Ground Cat against Zoning and it would be perfect, 2. Variation is the same, who needs the air cat? give him Kahn Cut and it would be perfect.

Every Character has tools, they came up with this really cool custom variation system and now we are locked in preset variations again that limits the tool a character could have had.
 
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santanabar

santanabar

Apprentice
Wrath0594 said:
With what? Her 28 frame, full combo punishable overhead? Her punishable high b2? Her punishable b1,2 seeable overhead? Those 3 incredibly unsafe moves are all she has for space control, the rest of her kit has less range than Johnny's.

And her projectiles are worthless. The air one is decent, and that's it.

I really wish people would provide some kind of reasoning when they said this.
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Her b2 is on of the best normals in the game, great hit box and hit confirmable.
B343 is also hit confirmable, and b3434 is mid starting PLUS ON BLOCK.
B1 has decent range, and you can cancel into low projectile or finish the string B12 (popup) for a 50/50.
Her projectiles are not the best on paper, but you have the glow and automatically you are the only one that is throwing stuff against most of the roster.
And her unsafe stuff is completely relative, many of the moves have pushback so they are not actually unsafe, or at least not many characters can punish.

You don't play Jade, I do and I'm telling you, she is pretty good.
 
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OzzFoxx

OzzFoxx

Hardcore gaming poser.
Everybody in this game sucks so much I can’t tell if anybody actually sucks. Perhaps my opinion will change but the hard steer toward neutral kinda took the fun and experimentation out. Everybody has only one or two ways to create damage so everyone will play the character the same way.
 
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