We all love to complain so lets have at it! Which character is THE WORST?

[Lord Snotty]

Kollector, Kotal, and Kabal.

 

[JBeezYBabY]

lol right my example didn't make sense because you assumed the only SC to mention is the newest one. because you failed to realize that there were 5 other SC games prior to this one
yea aight

Listen, I get it. You want to go back n forth with the shits. Not my style. Just ignore and ill do the exact same

 

[SxS626]

Listen, I get it. You want to go back n forth with the shits. Not my style. Just ignore and ill do the exact same

homie you came for me and fell on your face because you know SO little about what you're trying to argue lol but aight drop it

 

[GLoRToR]

what? a mop is a mop it doesn't matter who it is. didn't say anything about the skillset of the players, but dude still got mopped either way

 

[dribirut]

games like ssb4 and SC all had custom loadouts in the game but none were allowed in tournament due to the time it would take to set up between rounds, the sheer lack of balance, and how impossible it is to prepare against every combination of moves in the game. the entire point of custom characters is to build the best possible character you can, and that directly contradicts the core foundation of competitive play completely. the studio already announced they're looking into implementing customs into competitive play but it's looking like they'll just end up adding more presets in the future and that's the only viable decision at this point

Lol people need to stop being ridiculous. If you already know your loadout, selecting it would literally not take more than 20 seconds..

Also they already proved they could balance the customization options. The beta is proof of that. Its not like they had to balance 40 more characters. They already had 20% of all characters completely balanced...

Finally, the "theyre only going to use the same moves" argument is a complete nonstarter since with this two variation system people are already completely disregarding the weaker one of the two...


This can completely be done and people need to stop making excuses for NRS

 

[JBeezYBabY]

Lol people need to stop being ridiculous. If you already know your loadout, selecting it would literally not take more than 20 seconds..

Also they already proved they could balance the customization options. The beta is proof of that. Its not like they had to balance 40 more characters. They already had 20% of all characters completely balanced...

Finally, the "theyre only going to use the same moves" argument is a complete nonstarter since with this two variation system people are already completely disregarding the weaker one of the two...


This can completely be done and people need to stop making excuses for NRS

EXACTLY THIS!

 

[SxS626]

View attachment 14326

it's literally a competitive term. FGC players use it all the time towards each other even in tournament

jesus is MK the only game y'all play?

 

[SxS626]

Lol people need to stop being ridiculous. If you already know your loadout, selecting it would literally not take more than 20 seconds..

Also they already proved they could balance the customization options. The beta is proof of that. Its not like they had to balance 40 more characters. They already had 20% of all characters completely balanced...

Finally, the "theyre only going to use the same moves" argument is a complete nonstarter since with this two variation system people are already completely disregarding the weaker one of the two...


This can completely be done and people need to stop making excuses for NRS

yep. it's been attempted literally for years with like 4 other games with the same mindsets of "this can be done, all we need to do is this, this, and this" and it fell flat every time. if NRS can figure it out, it will be nothing short of a miracle. but history already suggests that customs in tournaments just doesn't work

 

[GLoRToR]

it's literally a competitive term. FGC players use it all the time towards each other even in tournament

jesus is MK the only game y'all play?

You seem to have trouble understanding how fighting games work. Fighting game history is full of tide turners (most recently Sonya in mkx) where a character got mopped regularly until the one upset where it instantly skyrocketed to top tier because tech was found.

Furthermore, losing to the best player in the world on day 1-2-3-4-11-27 is not something that proves a point too well. If Dragon went online and kept losing to every random fuck with Cetrion, there would be some cause for worry. But he's done fairly well in comparison to who he was playing against.

Just to clarify though, I'm not arguing Cetrion's viability, I'm arguing the fact that you use losing to SonicFox as any manner of indication to the character's viability instead. If Sonic played Cetrion and Dragon played Geras, likely similar results could have happened.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

In terms of story,
DARK RAIDEN
useless and RUDE too Cassie

In terms of gameplay, I dont care for grapplers so,
Geras

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Threads like this have the knack of weeding out idiots.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

People are taking these threads too seriously. Lighten the fuck up. People are fucking around for the most part (I hope).

Most of your attitudes wouldn't have lasted five minutes back in the golden era of the arcades playing randoms for 25 cents.

Shits not that serious.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

People are taking these threads too seriously. Lighten the fuck up. People are fucking around for the most part (I hope).

Most of your attitudes wouldn't have lasted five minutes back in the golden era of the arcades playing randoms for 25 cents.

Shits not that serious.

I recommend just sit back and grab some pop-corn

 

[JBeezYBabY]

People are taking these threads too seriously. Lighten the fuck up. People are fucking around for the most part (I hope).

Most of your attitudes wouldn't have lasted five minutes back in the golden era of the arcades playing randoms for 25 cents.

Shits not that serious.

They get punched in the fucking mouth with a fist full of quarters back in those days. Ah....and they were good ass days too

 

[SxS626]

You seem to have trouble understanding how fighting games work. Fighting game history is full of tide turners (most recently Sonya in mkx) where a character got mopped regularly until the one upset where it instantly skyrocketed to top tier because tech was found.

Furthermore, losing to the best player in the world on day 1-2-3-4-11-27 is not something that proves a point too well. If Dragon went online and kept losing to every random fuck with Cetrion, there would be some cause for worry. But he's done fairly well in comparison to who he was playing against.

Just to clarify though, I'm not arguing Cetrion's viability, I'm arguing the fact that you use losing to SonicFox as any manner of indication to the character's viability instead. If Sonic played Cetrion and Dragon played Geras, likely similar results could have happened.

getting mopped simply means losing. so idk why you thought a histroy lesson proved your point but it was completely irrelevant to the conversation. i wasn't even referring to a character or player, just the term

 

[HAMMER]

Yay, thanks for the spoiler!!!

Don't come to gaming websites if you don't want to see information revealed. How is this not common sense lol?

 

[ATIWAB]

Not a fan of Shao Kahn, you can low profile a ton of his shit and it makes him easily punishable. His biggest benefit is having a really safe advancing mid, everything else is... idk. I'd rather play Jax. I haven't labbed as much with Shao as others though, so could be missing something.

 

[jmt]

What matchup? Because when I watched, he lost like 15 games in a row vs Sonic Geras, it was a mop.

Dragon was beating his Erron with Cetrion

 

[Circus]

Why is Sub in the best? I think he’s solid mid tier. Low damage, punishable overhead, execution heavy combos, no mid ranged moves. Very good low low though and cool b12

All these things are opinions at this point, but a couple of top players have this opinion at this point:

1. He is legitimately hard to zone. With slide in one variation and his deep freeze in another and a ridiculously fast dash in both, it makes it so he will more often than not have the edge against traditional space control.

2. His B1 is -2 on block. Add this in with the fact that his backdash is incredible and this is crazy. He could poke then backdash to bait a counterattack and it could be used as a check for the opponent to be hesitant to press buttons in neutral.

3. 12 is 0 on block. The same thing with B1, but better. After this is blocked he could backdash and whiff punish pokes but he could also just tiny dash forward and grab the opponent. This again creates a fear for the opponent not to want to press buttons just opens up his crazy mixup game of low-grab-overhead.

4. He's going to have a TON of grab opportunities. Unlike many, he actually has an overhead low mixup. It doesn't matter if the overhead is punishable because it's practically unreactable and what is more important is the fear that it even exists. Not many will often take the risk to preemptively D2 or neutral duck without blocking to punish a grab attempt.

It's easy to think that Subzero has to be played risky with just doing overheads and lows, but if someone just focuses on dash-up grabs and footsies, this character ends up doing that slightly better than some that specialize in it. Dash-up ANYTHING is just really really fast.

Can you explain Raiden and Kotal. Out of the cast I feel Kotal has great Normals, but I admit if we are going by tournament variations he has to have kahn-cut but if it was custom I feel he is top tier when combined cut and totems. I feel his pokes, range, mix-up are good.

Can you explain why Liu Kang is so good? I feel like his pressure is meh with 12 being highs and his popup being mid/high and punishable.

Sonya, I definitely feel she is good but her only launcher is punishable b123 and the 134 is a high starter. B1 is 9f high and what I was gonna justify using to open was b234 fake out but the fake out is reactable 33f.
She definitely has mix-up and decent damage but it's all very punishable on main launcher into db2 BnBs .

I'm not sure on Raiden was thinking on picking him up. His combos seem meh swag wise. But I'd like to hear why you think he is bad. Isn't most if the casts launchers and mixups punishable/have gaps/high starters/or slow in some cases.

For choices that are not immediately obvious I would ask if you could maybe elaborate why you think they are bad? Cause I think raiden is straight up good.

quick counterpoint example:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121643075296645127

As far as the "worst" characters these are just my personal opinions.

The whole thing is some characters just execute strategies a little better. Raiden and Kotal are still very much useable and will end up having some winning matchups with their tools. They are actually really solid characters still tbh. I just predict they might have more losing matchups than a few other characters.

The reason I said Raiden is because he has to commit completely to his offense. What I mean by that is that most of his tools in neutral leave him in a position where he has to commit to a block afterward because he is barely safe on block. Once he commits to his normals, his turn is over and the opponent could do what they want.

Raiden has some good space control projectile zoning in one variation and if he could optimize this game in some matchups he'll do fantastic. In his other variation he has to focus a bit more on his normals and the only way to truly make it so you get away free when using his stuff is by using a defensive bar to cancel his tackle (and he needs that bar). If played great, I don't doubt Raiden could be a beast who hits like a truck and could even mix you up if he's close enough though.
----------------
Kotal has an amazing real stagger with F34. The recovery on F3 is the same as the startup for the F3(4) second hit, so the opponent literally has to guess if he is going to complete the string or not. That AND he has a command grab mixup in F3xxGrab. If he does commit to the F34 he is -3 which is really not too bad either. He also has F12 which is an incredible neutral tool that could lead into a full combo too and is safe on block aswell.

All this stuff is really good. Combine it with his dash speed and he is going to be a serious threat. The thing is that he has one big flaw and that he really does have to play the opponent's game completely if he is up against a character that could run away from him properly. He could switch to his variation with the jaguar moves, but he'd lose a ton of the utility from his combo extender and his command grab. In some matchups I predict he might have to take some big risks just to get in and do a F3 mixup.
-----------------

Like I said before though, both of these characters are good. They have gameplans that work and will definitely have some winning matchups. Like I mentioned though, I just predict they might end up having a bit more losing matchups than some other characters because their gameplans are so all-or-nothing imo.

And about Sonya? She could make her mix safe with rings. Her rings are themselves a mixup because she could cancel her amplify to continue pressure and the opponent has to be afraid of that absolutely crazy ring krushing blow. Her projectile is incredible just on its own so she could keep some people out until she wants to dash in with a mixup. Her damage is very high for how many tools she has too. I just feel like she doesn't really struggle against anything.

 

[Eldagrin]

I

All these things are opinions at this point, but a couple of top players have this opinion at this point:

1. He is legitimately hard to zone. With slide in one variation and his deep freeze in another and a ridiculously fast dash in both, it makes it so he will more often than not have the edge against traditional space control.

2. His B1 is -2 on block. Add this in with the fact that his backdash is incredible and this is crazy. He could poke then backdash to bait a counterattack and it could be used as a check for the opponent to be hesitant to press buttons in neutral.

3. 12 is 0 on block. The same thing with B1, but better. After this is blocked he could backdash and whiff punish pokes but he could also just tiny dash forward and grab the opponent. This again creates a fear for the opponent not to want to press buttons just opens up his crazy mixup game of low-grab-overhead.

4. He's going to have a TON of grab opportunities. Unlike many, he actually has an overhead low mixup. It doesn't matter if the overhead is punishable because it's practically unreactable and what is more important is the fear that it even exists. Not many will often take the risk to preemptively D2 or neutral duck without blocking to punish a grab attempt.

It's easy to think that Subzero has to be played risky with just doing overheads and lows, but if someone just focuses on dash-up grabs and footsies, this character ends up doing that slightly better than some that specialize in it. Dash-up ANYTHING is just really really fast.







As far as the "worst" characters these are just my personal opinions.

The whole thing is some characters just execute strategies a little better. Raiden and Kotal are still very much useable and will end up having some winning matchups with their tools. They are actually really solid characters still tbh. I just predict they might have more losing matchups than a few other characters.

The reason I said Raiden is because he has to commit completely to his offense. What I mean by that is that most of his tools in neutral leave him in a position where he has to commit to a block afterward because he is barely safe on block. Once he commits to his normals, his turn is over and the opponent could do what they want.

Raiden has some good space control projectile zoning in one variation and if he could optimize this game in some matchups he'll do fantastic. In his other variation he has to focus a bit more on his normals and the only way to truly make it so you get away free when using his stuff is by using a defensive bar to cancel his tackle (and he needs that bar). If played great, I don't doubt Raiden could be a beast who hits like a truck and could even mix you up if he's close enough though.
----------------
Kotal has an amazing real stagger with F34. The recovery on F3 is the same as the startup for the F3(4) second hit, so the opponent literally has to guess if he is going to complete the string or not. That AND he has a command grab mixup in F3xxGrab. If he does commit to the F34 he is -3 which is really not too bad either. He also has F12 which is an incredible neutral tool that could lead into a full combo too and is safe on block aswell.

All this stuff is really good. Combine it with his dash speed and he is going to be a serious threat. The thing is that he has one big flaw and that he really does have to play the opponent's game completely if he is up against a character that could run away from him properly. He could switch to his variation with the jaguar moves, but he'd lose a ton of the utility from his combo extender and his command grab. In some matchups I predict he might have to take some big risks just to get in and do a F3 mixup.
-----------------

Like I said before though, both of these characters are good. They have gameplans that work and will definitely have some winning matchups. Like I mentioned though, I just predict they might end up having a bit more losing matchups than some other characters because their gameplans are so all-or-nothing imo.

And about Sonya? She could make her mix safe with rings. Her rings are themselves a mixup because she could cancel her amplify to continue pressure and the opponent has to be afraid of that absolutely crazy ring krushing blow. Her projectile is incredible just on its own so she could keep some people out until she wants to dash in with a mixup. Her damage is very high for how many tools she has too. I just feel like she doesn't really struggle against anything.

I agree with you on Sonya, I play her I can’t see how anyone could think she is bad. Ring is amazing in this game, her strings are good, she has a lot of highs but she has a good low poke crush that is + on block in f3 and her f4 is a fast mid, she can also go for throws a lot in addition to her mix. Not to mention she does crushing blow level damage midscreen for a bar or two.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I don’t know how good or bad Johnny is overall but I can only imagine he sits alone atop the throne for worst kb’s in the game.

 

[fr stack]

wow hard boy, insulting random people in the internet because they got other opinions

Opinions are like arseholes . Everyone has them ,some are shittier than others

 

[BlackShade]

At this moment i woud say the Kahns are the worst. But it's early days.

 

[BanTheTesters]

So how’s kollector so far everyone?

 

[BlackShade]

Opinions are like arseholes . Everyone has them ,some are shittier than others

wise words.

 

[Qwark28]

Kotal has an amazing real stagger with F34. The recovery on F3 is the same as the startup for the F3(4) second hit, so the opponent literally has to guess if he is going to complete the string or not. That AND he has a command grab mixup in F3xxGrab. If he does commit to the F34 he is -3 which is really not too bad either. He also has F12 which is an incredible neutral tool that could lead into a full combo too and is safe on block aswell.

All this stuff is really good. Combine it with his dash speed and he is going to be a serious threat. The thing is that he has one big flaw and that he really does have to play the opponent's game completely if he is up against a character that could run away from him properly. He could switch to his variation with the jaguar moves, but he'd lose a ton of the utility from his combo extender and his command grab. In some matchups I predict he might have to take some big risks just to get in and do a F3 mixup.

F3 is certainly not an amazing stagger. F3 doesn't tick to command grab.

F12 is not an incredible neutral too, you don't throw it out in neutral unless you're whiff punishing. The jaguar variation is completely garbage.

It's not zoning that bothers him, it's not having a respectable fast mid up close. His fastest mid is 15f and does 7% damage.