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Variations and Counterpicking

Kroaken

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Invincible Salads said:
so like, for tourneys, are we gonna have to set aside time now before the set begins so players can build they're preferred variations? because if so this is gonna make sets take a lot longer.
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Ideally it's choosable at character select, similar to how umvc3 you choose three characters and three assists. Wouldn't be that hard. But it sounds like we're just going to get 3 prebuilt variations. Nothing Kustom about it.
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Is the objective here to avoid / reduce counter picking by allowing the winner AND the loser to counter pick after every match?
 
Sablicious

Sablicious

Apprentice
callMEcrazy said:
I remember that match. Fox picked Jason to defeat Dragon's Imposter Shinnok if I recall correctly.
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Cant' recall myself and can't be pooped scouring YouTube for the video... Although, it was funny to stumble across it -- given I main Jason and my hapless versus buddy is convinced he utterly broken... What, with his buffs and "pursuit" gimmicks, that make players with low-to-intermediate skill pull their hair out!
*grinning_devil_smiley.gif*

However, my fundamental point is that, if they want to address counter-picking (as well as the horrid "mirror match" issue, that oft goes unspoken), then open or 'free' variations need to be implemented. Of import, the option for a 'free' variation (*all specials equipapble, save for those which the mechanics of clash directly) must be included. If such a mode is banned for tournament or online "ranked" use... whatever -- who cares? As long as it is present, accounted for and, thus, is available to showcase the character's in their full imagining, everything is flatulent air. There is no "balance" in friendly playing, where the respective skills of players can and does vary wildly.

For the competitive scene specifically, given specials already incorporate "slots" (presumably restricting their 'over-application'), the system should already have the necessary tools to balance characters 'out-of-the-box' -- without the need for extensive, extracurricular, frame data et al. refinement. If not, then the system is gravely flawed... But, even if thus be the case, then facile tweaking of "slots" (the increase / decrease of special ability slot requirements) should suffice in the immediate term.

To relegate customisation to 'Angry Joe' tier, casual titillation in utero, and before anyone has hands-on to properly adjudicate upon it, defeats the core purpose of the system (what I suspect Boon's initial vision for it was) and is just, plain dumb.
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Sablicious said:
To relegate customisation to 'Angry Joe' tier, casual titillation in utero, and before anyone has hands-on to properly adjudicate upon it, defeats the core purpose of the system (what I suspect Boon's initial vision for it was) and is just, plain dumb.
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Your casual dismissal of EVERYONE who plays the game below the competitive level as "Angry Joe" tier is pretty insulting considering that's where you are and you seem to think your opinion is pretty important.

You do know the 'competitive' tier is the smaller less relevant one, right?
 
Sablicious

Sablicious

Apprentice
trufenix said:
Your casual dismissal of EVERYONE
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Reductio ad absurdum.

who plays the game below the competitive level as "Angry Joe" tier
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Said YT presenter's reviews are unashamëdly casual-gamer-focused -- this is only an observation of fact, not necessarily a criticism.

is pretty insulting
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I do not claim to be Sigmund Freud... However, one should understand that "offence" is a near-autonomic operation of the amgydala (the "emotional brain") -- in effect, the bypassing the pattern-finding or logic functions (frontal cortex / lobe). The former, we are born with already well-developed (see: infants crying / laughing, nay reasoning); the latter, requires input information to hone (lit., for neural pathway creation) and, thus, is formed (or malformed!) over time.

Case that buttresses the above point: Politicians appealing to emotion (usually fear), as distinct from using facts to promote their platforms -- i.e., the emotion is much easier to seize than the pattern-finding faculties of the human brain are.

tl;dr/dc -- THINK; don't FEEEEEEEEL... Or all the glory of edification will pass you by.

 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Mortal Kombat's main twitter page just posted this picture just now:



It's not fan art. The logo on the bottom leads me to believe it's in the game.

For some reason I think this might be an image they might be using for ACTUAL variations.

Of course I'm guessing. Recently though, on the last Kombat Kast they did show that they are working on variation images somewhat because they were completely blank:



Could "Preservation" be a variation of Baraka and if so is this image the picture for it?

It somewhat looks like the kustom icons you could apply to kustom variations, just more detailed:



Just a thought, idk, but I think this might be a good sign that actual variations might be coming on top of kustom ones.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
I hope they add Custom variations to competitive play. As long as they balance the characters and moves it shouldn't be a problem.
 
Kiss the Missile

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
I saw a few complaints about custom variations being along the lines of "Won't know opponent's moves"

Just show them in the loading screen before a fight. "Scorpion has Misery Blade and Fire Breath? Okay I know what to do"

Not that hard man. I really hope NRS doesn't try to give us some halfhearted reason why they can't do it. I know they said they want every move to be available in preset variations, but you already know they're going to lock the dope shit with trash. Imagine if the only way you could have Kabal's air grab is if you had to have his tornado and Gas blast moves too.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Kiss the Missile said:
I saw a few complaints about custom variations being along the lines of "Won't know opponent's moves"

Just show them in the loading screen before a fight. "Scorpion has Misery Blade and Fire Breath? Okay I know what to do"

Not that hard man. I really hope NRS doesn't try to give us some halfhearted reason why they can't do it. I know they said they want every move to be available in preset variations, but you already know they're going to lock the dope shit with trash. Imagine if the only way you could have Kabal's air grab is if you had to have his tornado and Gas blast moves too.
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If they do dumb shit like that I'll riot. They better allow custom or have us vote on it. Honestly they just need to balance them make the shit ones up to the level of the few good ones.

But I think if they just balance the characters well, we could have custom.
 
Error404

Error404

Kombatant
None of the people who posted here (me included) are at a high enough level for balance to actually matter. Get a grip. You're not pros . Bad and good MUs dont affect you all that much. Somebody being able to make a custom variation is not what's going to be loosing you matches. So let's actually have fun with custom variations and stop pretending that this is your career.
 
Kiss the Missile

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
"Just balance them" is a pretty vague thing to say. It's a delicate system. Buffing one special could make two more obsolete for all we know. I'm just in favor of giving the community full control over the system. Let us find out what works well with what before NRS decides it needs buffing or nerfing
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
Chernyy Volk said:
You want the winner to be able to switch variations, which you should know if you followed MKX, would either mean WORSE counterpicking, or the character still gets counterpicked. Most characters in MKX just lost to other characters because of the base character, variations only added to that slightly.
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How in the hell is this change going to lead to WORSE counterpicking? rofl... Character A beats zoner with Anti Zoning toolset. Character B picks rushdown, Character A swaps variations to Anti Rushdown toolset. I honestly Always thought this was an interesting idea and would support character loyalists.
 
Chernyy Volk

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
DeftMonk said:
How in the hell is this change going to lead to WORSE counterpicking? rofl... Character A beats zoner with Anti Zoning toolset. Character B picks rushdown, Character A swaps variations to Anti Rushdown toolset. I honestly Always thought this was an interesting idea and would support character loyalists.
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Bro, I was invalidating peoples entire loadouts because I had mine and was turning matchups into 7-3's on a whim. This system would be horrible.
 
ShaolinGunFu

ShaolinGunFu

Warrior
Kiss the Missile said:
That would severely weaken the cast. Have you ever used a no variation character in MKX? Scorpion with no added moves would be terrible in MK11
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i dont want them to have less moves- to the contrary, i just dont want them to be different sets of moves. id rather the chars have every single move possible but its easier to balance when its a set packege. mkx was a disaster for balance, I2 comp mode was the key
 
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