UMK3 Tier list discussion

[mistaKM]

If the tier list puts any weight into "ease of character use" than reptile has no reason being where he is. If you are strictly looking at the character's potential than he's definitely in the top tier.

I don't think it's possible to have it both ways on this.

 

[Houzi]

IMO I think that U.Sub should be higher than Scorpion and that Stryker should be higher than Sonya and Kitana. If you do Strykers pop-up, then you're basically screwed, but Kitana and Sonya don't have an easy infinite like Stryker. Although I have fought some people that were absolutely amazing with Sonya. I'd like to hear some discussion between Stryker, Sonya, and Kitana.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

well i guess you should learn how to use them then

Ah, yes...I should devote nearly all my time to practicing Rep's inf. That's the answer!!! Why didn't I see it until now? Oh wait, I even forgot! I'm remembering just now that playing online actually makes the inf even MORE difficult due to delay and whatnot. Sorry, I forgot I suck and don't know shit about shit. *rapidly taps HP, HP, D+LP, F, F, HP+LP, HP, HP, B-F+LK, HP*

Get my point? He's hard as FUCK to use. You may have the best or one of the best Reptiles in the world ded...but out of how many? A HANDFUL. How many very good Robo Smoke players are there out there? Many, many, MANY more. Robo is one of my mains and I hardly ever use him enough to get broken in to play. He's simple to use, punisher does higher damage than most juggles you'll get with Rep online. But whatever, it's cool. I don't have dozens of combo videos even though I play high level competition about every day...I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about but the combo guru from halfway across the world that hardly ever plays good competition always has the answer. That answer is he's right, you're wrong, end of story. That's why I'm done here. My input is pointless to the max. </bitch fit>

EDIT: If anyone on this thread or forum thinks that endless debate will change the sites concrete strats or recommendations...you need to take a second look around. Had you held a golden egg or silver spoon, your words might actually mean something. I've always been about letting your gameplay do the talking. But that's just it: It's a bit ridiculous to judge someone's fucking opinion on their skill level...especially when you. haven't. ever. even. PLAYED. them. This topic should be closed for the sake of pity and shame. This is not a discussion, it's an excuse for showmanship by the members that take advantage.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

What happened to "There's too much politics"?

I'm bringing it back baby.

 

[Shock]

Wow Reptile is not hard to use, and you don't need his infinite to win. If you can master his infinite on every single character it is available for, then Reptile is damn near #1.

Reptile has 50% easy combo off pop up, forceball, etc. And, AND, even if you miss it, it is easy to mix up and get back into his zoning, which, brings you to his tactics. You don't need 50% combos to win with him. He also has male ninja normals. He has invisibility.

Reptile with infinites is even higher. His current damage value is based on 50%+ combo potential, non-infinte. Offline only.

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

Reptile is easy for combo kids to use.....and they still lose? The top tier reptile is overseas so yeah I will def listen and appreciate opinions, but wont worry about playing a reptile online or offline because yeah I'll just use Ermac, R. Smoke, or Nightwolf and call it a day. Reptile has to pay constant attention to win and those other three you just have to go through the motions to win and if you pay attention it's all the easier. I just don't think reptile is amazing without taking advantage of his entire move set.

I think reptile is were he is at from personal opinion kind of like how Crazy's Kitana is top tier to him which I'm sure she is. Reptile 5? I want more proof and not just well they do this blah blah I do this. As far as game play goes I would put money Ermac, Robot-Smoke and Nightwolf sure as hell rack up more wins in equal situations

 

[Dreamcatcher]

Okay Shock, I'll bite. Keep in mind I'm only discussing, not trying to stir trouble.

Wow Reptile is not hard to use, and you don't need his infinite to win.

True, but without the infinite or the higher damage possibility on easier characters...he's inferior to characters that do higher damage much quicker. (ala Robo, Ermac, H. Smoke, Nightwolf, Stryker, maybe a few others)

If you can master his infinite on every single character it is available for, then Reptile is damn near #1.

IF. If, Shock. But does the same principle not apply for Lao or Stryker? Forgive me, for I know you said damn near, but he's the only character that requires such precise timing to execute correctly. I'm not saying no one can do it, it's just...how many? I thought the tier list also took into account the difficulty to use the characters as well. If I'm wrong about that, then I'll hop off.

Reptile has 50% easy combo off pop up, forceball, etc. And, AND, even if you miss it, it is easy to mix up and get back into his zoning, which, brings you to his tactics. You don't need 50% combos to win with him. He also has male ninja normals. He has invisibility.

Easy to mix up? Please elaborate. You may not need the 50% to win with him, but without the legit chance to pull off higher damage, his other tidbits can be beaten out by a few others. Rep has male ninja normals...Nightwolf is harder to juggle...Stryker can't be runjabbed by many...hell, Robo also has invisibilty. No sense straying away from what makes Rep strong: The infinite and the zoning. His tactics are racking up massive damage and feeding off of the other player's mishaps. This is all in small windows and strenuous attentiveness, nonetheless.

Reptile with infinites is even higher. His current damage value is based on 50%+ combo potential, non-infinte. Offline only.

Then I feel the need to put an asterisk by this thread...*thread only recommended for New Jersey and Chicago offline players. If the list is only based on offline, that's why people are butting heads so often here. (as if anyone didn't notice lol)

In my opinion...offline or online, Reptile is not top 5 but easily top 10. His windows are ridiculous (yes I've played on cabs consistently) and his potential alone shouldn't bring him up to the tip top. If potential were the case, Lao would be #1.

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

IMO I think that U.Sub should be higher than Scorpion and that Stryker should be higher than Sonya and Kitana. If you do Strykers pop-up, then you're basically screwed, but Kitana and Sonya don't have an easy infinite like Stryker. Although I have fought some people that were absolutely amazing with Sonya. I'd like to hear some discussion between Stryker, Sonya, and Kitana.

They're perfect were they are. in a nutshell strykers corner game sucks cus he cant run jab a lot of characters so he just has to bait for the corner inf, sonya has great rushdown run from her and she is effed, I main her, pink rings and imagination flying attack are not enough to chase them down if they have a life lead and decide to run, kitana yeah shes a beast but she can get repetitive so it's player skill for her period

 

[ded]

....

you even didnt read what i have posted, infinites has nothing to do with his place. my opinion is based on facts, not on personal skills. reptile can win the round without getting combo bigger than 40%...

do you use invisibility at all? acid spit? whiff and transport dashes? cancels, rjabs, delaying moves, fake forceballs, male ninjas basics and etc....

rsmoke has one big punsiher, air throw and invisibility.... thats it

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

you even didnt read what i have posted, infinites has nothing to do with his place. my opinion is based on facts, not on personal skills. reptile can win the round without getting combo bigger than 40%...

Most characters can win without getting a combo bigger than 40%

 

[ded]

thats basicaly what i said few posts before

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

Yeah and that does not make them top tier

 

[Shock]

The reason why Reptile's infinite would be more valuable than Stryker's is because Reptile can be mid screen to do it, and it is never inhibited by the corner, ever. Stryker's infinite, once started, depends on where you are. Kung Lao's infinite also has some corner limitations, and less ground potential start up than Reptile's.

If you said "Without the higher damage combos" he is inferior, well then let's start eliminating parts of other characters and see where they stand. Eliminating a viable option is ridiculous.

Characters playing vs Reptile forceballs have to pay as much attention as Reptile does when he is baiting and faking FB's.

If the list is only based on offline, that's why people are butting heads so often here

Duh. This is why I bring up so often that a lot of what people say here is based on netplay observation. Some people don't believe it, and that is just idiotic. Netplay results do not count. There shouldn't be any question as to whether or not it's based on offline or online. Basing anything from online is like saying "Well if you have these artificial disadvantages or a mild case of Parkinson's, then you might not be able to perform as well with Reptile as you would if you were in a stable environment or healthy."

 

[ded]

Yeah and that does not make them top tier

ok

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

Fake force balls are not a big issue especially in "offline" situations plenty of frames to take advantage of reptile no need to get jittery and punish with a teleport that does hardly any damage to get you punished high level players would know that. Reptile is like cyrax you rush him he dies a good reptile uses the dash like a teleport basically to get out of it theres no denying reptile has top 10 qualities but 5 I have seen no proof of this outside of ded's videos so we have one person who can play him 5 or better and no one else. Hell reptile is not easy to use and *cough* *cough* some people had their sig saying I have never seen anyone get more than 3 juggles with rep outside of like 3 people

hmmmmmmmmm


damn that sounds easy

 

[Dreamcatcher]

Kung Lao's infinite also has some corner limitations, and less ground potential start up than Reptile's.

Um, not really. Lao's infinite has the largest windows on all characters. Does anyone disagree with that? Yes, less ground potential, but have you ever played a high level Lao, Shock? You cannot/should not attempt a crossup or jump punch the entire round. If you do, a good player WINS the round because they don't drop the infinite.
---

If you said "Without the higher damage combos" he is inferior, well then let's start eliminating parts of other characters and see where they stand. Eliminating a viable option is ridiculous.

lol Were you not the one who posted this? VVV

His current damage value is based on 50%+ combo potential, non-infinte.

---

Characters playing vs Reptile forceballs have to pay as much attention as Reptile does when he is baiting and faking FB's.

Yes, but it's about initiation and timing. If a "bad" player throws out an ill-advised FB, the "better" player will jump over and punish them. A "good" Rep player will be able to time it better, and if necessary, counter with a rh. My point is, this is another reason why Reptile is harder to use. The mind games can also work against you, it might all come down to pure skill to win...not damage or infinites.

Duh. This is why I bring up so often that a lot of what people say here is based on netplay observation. Some people don't believe it, and that is just idiotic. Netplay results do not count. There shouldn't be any question as to whether or not it's based on offline or online. Basing anything from online is like saying "Well if you have these artificial disadvantages or a mild case of Parkinson's, then you might not be able to perform as well with Reptile as you would if you were in a stable environment or healthy."

Funny, but not valid. The same scenarios occur online, although the windows become smaller. Like I said before, online AND offline, Reptile is difficult and overrated. That is all. It's always obvious that delay becomes a factor with online play. However, the same strategies apply to Reptile's victory...just doesn't mean it will come any easier. With or without lag, Reptile is too difficult to use to be taken seriously as top 5. In the right hands, yes, he is unbelievably dangerous. IN THE RIGHT HANDS. Many sub-par players can mold a dangerous Robo Smoke and fucking BEAT that amazing Reptile player. I've seen it happen in the arcade (to me) and online.

you even didnt read what i have posted, infinites has nothing to do with his place. my opinion is based on facts, not on personal skills. reptile can win the round without getting combo bigger than 40%...

do you use invisibility at all? acid spit? whiff and transport dashes? cancels, rjabs, delaying moves, fake forceballs, male ninjas basics and etc....

lol ok. Did you not read what I posted?

rsmoke has one big punsiher, air throw and invisibility.... thats it

That's exactly what I'm saying. There are other characters that have an equal or better chance of winning, and their strategies are much simpler to follow. Bottom line, without the infinites, his place is STILL wrong. And acid spit? Was that a serious question?

EARLY EDIT: Thanks for the input, guys. I've longed for a lengthy character squabble for quite some time. I got one.

 

[ded]

And acid spit? Was that a serious question?

its called wakeup

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

acid spit wake up doesn't really seem worth the risk especially if this reptile player is playing anyone else in the top 5

ps acid leads to relitively nothing compared to most wake up moves like the net, spear, scream, spin, tks and even those I hardly think worth it as wake up

 

[ded]

thats what i use, it hits way more often than both forceballs vs offensive players

 

[Shock]

The Reptile 3 juggle sig was a JOKE based on a post Lex made in 2003 on Shoryuken.com

Reptile is not overrated. Reptile is not difficult to use. Players online who don't bother with Reptile because he is hindered by netplay don't have any influence on his usage in a real situation. These players also don't bother with Kano because his advantages are not as widely apparent, but they are there. This is because the players are playing a limited version of the game, using a limited controller in most cases, therefore unable to explore the full potential of many characters, or game mechanics in general.

Neither ROFL nor DreamCatcher has enough offline experience vs a multitude of good players over the course of time to know that.

Kung Lao's infinite is limited by corner push back before he gets there, as in, there are situations before the infinite is actually started, same as Stryker, where the infinite will not be possible.

With Reptile, he has at least 3 ways to start a big damage juggle, or if you want to go further, infinite. He doesn't even need the juggles to be top 10. What don't you guys understand about that?

ded_ just baited you guys with the acid spit comment, it was an easy way to prove you don't know what you're talking about or understand the tier list structure, reasoning, or very much anything that is said here.

If you guys want, make your own board that has a netplay influenced joke tier list for UMK3.

 

[Rockzilla220]

LoL@ThReAd

 

[dubson]

The Reptile 3 juggle sig was a JOKE based on a post Lex made in 2003 on Shoryuken.com

Reptile is not overrated. Reptile is not difficult to use. Players online who don't bother with Reptile because he is hindered by netplay don't have any influence on his usage in a real situation. These players also don't bother with Kano because his advantages are not as widely apparent, but they are there. This is because the players are playing a limited version of the game, using a limited controller in most cases, therefore unable to explore the full potential of many characters, or game mechanics in general.

Neither ROFL nor DreamCatcher has enough offline experience vs a multitude of good players over the course of time to know that.

Kung Lao's infinite is limited by corner push back before he gets there, as in, there are situations before the infinite is actually started, same as Stryker, where the infinite will not be possible.

With Reptile, he has at least 3 ways to start a big damage juggle, or if you want to go further, infinite. He doesn't even need the juggles to be top 10. What don't you guys understand about that?

ded_ just baited you guys with the acid spit comment, it was an easy way to prove you don't know what you're talking about or understand the tier list structure, reasoning, or very much anything that is said here.

If you guys want, make your own board that has a netplay influenced joke tier list for UMK3.

QFT.

Nothing but the same arguements being made in this thread have been made for years by new members of this site who only play online.

It is really a recurring plague of online players coming in here fresh off the DS or 360 trying to debate the tier list and its really a joke.

Go to any fighting game community and try and debate a tier list based on netplay and see how fast you get laughed out of the place.

Come with better arguements, please.

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

Ok well it's whatever because ded plays on pc not cab but since he has ur back it's whatever but since we play on controllers it's the other way around. Shock, get some vids of you beating people who are "good" with your reptile when they are using top tier characters, but until then you fall with Rockzilla, and the other combo kids you don't know our experience you don't play with us sure you have more experience, but how much do you learn after the first phase not much you just hone the skills you already have so I challenge you to the lex challenge and play me with your stick (with messed up run buttons rofl) on emulated pc or 360 or moded cab that I can use a controller. Lets see that reptile bring it $1000

 

[dubson]

Ok well it's whatever because ded plays on pc not cab but since he has ur back it's whatever but since we play on controllers it's the other way around. Shock, get some vids of you beating people who are "good" with your reptile when they are using top tier characters, but until then you fall with Rockzilla, and the other combo kids you don't know our experience you don't play with us sure you have more experience, but how much do you learn after the first phase not much you just hone the skills you already have so I challenge you to the lex challenge and play me with your stick (with messed up run buttons rofl) on emulated pc or 360 or moded cab that I can use a controller. Lets see that reptile bring it $1000

ROFL, you have go to be kidding me man.

Who are you? Seriously, wtf. A Call of Duty player that dabbles in MK, challenging and debating everything that has been built up for this game in that of over 10 years.

Why is it you think your knowledge and "experience" is so godly that it changes tier lists and beats out some of the top players out here?

Why are you the one telling Shock and Lex to make videos?

YOU should be the one making videos.

Seriously, this has got to be a joke.

 

[Not II ROFL II RIP]

wow I just baited you Dubson roflroflroflroflrofl gimmi a break you know I'm zero seriousness

I have no one to make videos with

and I have never told Lex to make a video


Edit: also I could careless about my name in umk3 I'm not out to make a name for myself but to have fun and I just don't see reptile as a freeking king maybe I just want to know more reason why he is king over 3 characters is that super hard to want to know they're the ones who bring out all this other stuff about how he is god but why the others are below him a few tactics help maybe an advanced guide are essay why since there is so much love for reptile

I'm just saying I feel the other are better by fractions of an inch not OMGZOR they dominate way better