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UMK3 Tier list discussion

Shock said:
What you guys don't realize is that cheap abusable moves = higher tier rank, saying a character doesn't rely on cheap moves to win is arguing against yourself. Sheeva can win matches, but it requires a lot more effort. No, Sheeva is no higher than bottom tier. She is placed last because other characters in the bottom tier have semi and universal infinites, but in general, she can compete with the bottom tier easily and most of the mid tier, but once you get into expert players with mid tier characters, an expert Sheeva's chances go way down because the play becomes lopsided.

Phoenix, your tier list is nothing more than a preference and honors system theory. If you lose a lot to Sheeva, then you need to learn how to play against Sheeva, because even a good Sheeva should get no more than a couple matches against you if it comes down to familiarizing tactics. She's limited and there are some things about her that make her harder to use in general.
sheeva is not a top player but can compete with almost anyone in the game with the exceptions of a few top tiers. shock, you must have never played a good sheeva before me, or u played some sheevas that u thought were good but weren't. I remember looking on this site a while back and i saw u say that julian had the best kitana and sector. when i played him he couldnt beat me once. im not trying to argue with u, i agree with u on a lot of things. i respect u and everything, but sometimes you need to listen to other opinions. especially when u know that person is a very good player and can show u what he says. i can play with sheeva in a way that shes supposed to be used and it might almost seem cheap. http://ultimatemk.com/matchvids/nec8/casual/crazy-sheeva_v_shock-jax.wmv Heres me using sheeva at the casual level because my controller is messed up and i forgot my other one at home. heres the bottom of the tier vs the #10 tier. im not directing this to shock only, this is for everybody. but we are all in the same community like one big family. im not trying to start trouble on the site or say that im the best but i see a lot of people here that dont really know what they are talking about. i see more talking and less playing. theres a lot of shit talking on this site but i dont ever say anything. Shock, u know me in person and u know i dont really talk a lot, but u know i can back up what i say. If I say sheevas not the worst character in the game, who's gonna prove me wrong?
 

rzpmkkteam

Kombatant
dreemernj said:
Alright, next tourny, I want to see some Sheeva players winning big. Then maybe the tier lists will move around a bit :lol:
The only chance to sheeva to change a spot on the tier list is just winning in a tourney?
 
ÐarkMoon said:
I want you to play MK2prince's Sheeva CD and tell me what you think.
that guys very very good, hes my brothers friend. if he uses sheeva in umk3 the way he plays in 2, then i know hes a beast. my brother told me hes one of the best in mk2.
 

dreemernj

Ambassador
rzp said:
dreemernj said:
Alright, next tourny, I want to see some Sheeva players winning big. Then maybe the tier lists will move around a bit :lol:
The only chance to sheeva to change a spot on the tier list is just winning in a tourney?
I think the only way to seriously consider a character's worth is how that character can be used in an environment without real excuses. Tournaments are handy because everybody should be playing their best. If someone loses, they shouldn't say "Oh I wasn't trying" or something like that because excuses like that are pointless if the point is simply to win. And, as long as there is a good set of controls, a live tourny removes the ability for people to complain about lag or button loss.

Basically, the best way to tell how good a character is or how well someone can play the game is either a live tourny on an arcade machine with good controls so it's equal for everybody or a BYOC console tourny where each person is responsible for making sure there's a controller they can use well.

And I wouldn't say it's about winning the tourny because nobody is saying Sheeva is the best character in the game. It's mostly people saying she's not the worst and if she got used well in a tournament I think it would do more to convince people of her worth than all the "She's great"/"She sucks" internet conversations that will never convince either side to change sides.
 

Shock

Administrator
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But Crazy, I have beaten your Sheeva before. The match we had with Jax and Sheeva was very close both rounds, and one round in fact, you won only because I didn't finish Jax's combo and besides, you think I use Jax often? If you are an amazing Sheeva player, playing against a so so Jax, then that's not a good example of Sheeva dominance because you barely won, but it was a good match. Having said this, in isolated situtations I've also beaten your Kabal with low tier, specifically Cyrax, before, in 2 rounds no less, of course the response will be "But Crazy probably wasn't trying" however that doesn't hold up in court. None of this speaks anything for tiers. I don't think anyone could hold up using Sheeva exclusively, she gets old fast but on rare occassions she can have a good showing.

Did you win any of your tournaments with Sheeva? I wouldn't advise using her against anyone who knows what they are doing but I don't have to advise that since you know you wouldn't risk it, and that in itself shows Sheeva is a bad option even for one of the very best players. The best Sheeva I ever went against before I met you, was Moe and at ECCX, Moe beat people here and there using her because he random selected vs everyone. There are a couple other guys who I played after him and were better with her, and you could be one of them.

All in all, Sheeva can stand up to the rest of the bottom tier, which is why it's a tier, and some of the mid tier, but the mid characters all have many factors that size up against Sheeva, and once you get beyond that, it's just basics vs basics. I would however point out, that expert players with the various bottom tier characters would probably say that their preferential character is not last, but one of them has to be.

It can't be Shang Tsung, and if I have to explain why that's just silly but he can't be last on a tier list since he has the universal infinite. Cyrax bomb break infinite alone prevents him from being dead last, but tactically he is complicated. In the most technical sense if it was a battle for last place, Classic-Sub can be argued over Sheeva since it is very easy to relaunch infinite her with him, just for that reason alone he would be over her aside their tactical differences. The chances of him getting a pop up combo on her one time in a match are pretty high, and most Sub players I have met can do his relaunch inf consistently. Mileena and Sheeva are probably the hardest comparison, Mileena cannot relaunch Sheeva, but her ball can evade the teleport stomp everytime but sets up weak damage, the general female ninja tactics, runjabs, and what not hurt Sheeva a lot. Mileena's sai shot lock down is probably most effective vs Sheeva because of her height and all her moves put her in the way of it.

Crazy, why don't you learn Mileena and see if you can work her up to a level beyond you Sheeva?
 
ÐarkMoon said:
abc ur dead0 said:
ÐarkMoon said:
abc ur dead0 said:
Jax was Top tier in MK II. Sheeva is dead. Fucking, Last.

Explain yourself.
I was not saying she was top tier or saying she should be raised at all, but if you use her correctly like a fucking MK2 Jax, she will take on anybody. If you have any mk2 skill at all you will see what I mean in the way she plays. She can defeat a lot of skilled players man.

Dude you just read the guides and tier lists and agree with everything you see. Whatever is said you say.
Have you not seen the threads with me bitching about the whole Kano/Reptile Placement?

Your right, I'm not a skilled MK II player and I took your analogy incorrectly. I apologize.

I still disagree now that you've explained yourself though. Sheeva does suck. If a Sheeva is beating you, you should be able to take her down on patterns alone. Jax was a Powerhouse in MK II. As far as I know, Only Mileena could stand a chance against Jax. Many characters can easily beat Sheeva. Unsub, Ermac, H Smoke, Kabal, ect.

If you want to go with your analogy, then ANY character can be a beast in the right hands.
The only reason why people think that nobody but Mileena can go against Jax, is because they suck. The end.

Don't talk to me about Patterns. You only fucking started playing MK when it hit the 360 right? lol.

Basically anything you say will go in and out the ear because I think you are most likely garbage. I was good at MK before this website came along kid.

You are an idiot. I post one thing about Sheeva and you act all fucking mighty, like you know the game inside out. I don't have to explain myself to a fucking Jr. High Kid.

Both of those characters are very fucking simular. Get over it.

It is very frustrating to make one post. Just one measly insignificant post of my opinion on sheeva. Then be asked to prove all my knowledge and worth. Fuck off.
You have absolutely NO credibility from this post. How about not bringing my age into the issue, HOW DARE I ask you to prove your opinion. HOW DARE I You know, arcades didn't all fucking blow up because current consoles came out. I've been playing since MKT came out on PS1. DC Hustle is 2 years older than me, and what, you going to tell me he doesn't know anything about the game either? Get the fuck over yourself Darkmoon.


It is very frustrating to make one post. Just one measly insignificant post of my opinion on sheeva. Then be asked to prove all my knowledge and worth. Fuck off.


Stupidest thing I've ever read in my whole life. Will 2 posts help? Three or Four? I asked you to back up your opinion. Again, HOW DARE I! ALL your knowledge could probably fit in one post anyways you stupid cunt.
 

DarkMoon

Kombatant
LOL you are such a [ban incoming]. (and believe me I'm not the only one that thinks so)

Here I got some pampers for you..
 
I'm not crying to anyone. I think I'd rather let you be on this site and build a more pathetic image for yourself with every post. It's quite funny.
 

dubson

Kombatant
how is he building a pathetic image for himself?

hes a great MK2 player

this isnt worth fighting over dudes
 

dreemernj

Ambassador
ÐarkMoon said:
LOL you are such a [ban incoming]. (and believe me I'm not the only one that thinks so)

Here I got some pampers for you..
You have to admit that since you are one of the most immature people on this board, it's laughable for you to call someone else kid.
 

DarkMoon

Kombatant
dreemernj said:
ÐarkMoon said:
LOL you are such a [ban incoming]. (and believe me I'm not the only one that thinks so)

Here I got some pampers for you..
You have to admit that since you are one of the most immature people on this board, it's laughable for you to call someone else kid.
Whatever dude, I've got crazy fucking mental issues which I'm not afraid to admit.

I've got respect for you but you probably hate me.

I love you and everyone on this site. :?
 

rzpmkkteam

Kombatant
Shock said:
But Crazy, I have beaten your Sheeva before. The match we had with Jax and Sheeva was very close both rounds, and one round in fact, you won only because I didn't finish Jax's combo and besides, you think I use Jax often? If you are an amazing Sheeva player, playing against a so so Jax, then that's not a good example of Sheeva dominance because you barely won, but it was a good match. Having said this, in isolated situtations I've also beaten your Kabal with low tier, specifically Cyrax, before, in 2 rounds no less, of course the response will be "But Crazy probably wasn't trying" however that doesn't hold up in court. None of this speaks anything for tiers. I don't think anyone could hold up using Sheeva exclusively, she gets old fast but on rare occassions she can have a good showing.
?
Would be nice to see some good matches here between Crazy Dominican and Shock

go and match :) and record xD Sheeva Vs XX in 20 Matches to see the result at the end and if Crazy´s Sheeva win... so let´s put sheeva in a new spot

The true is that Sheeva in MKT got to win some new spots cause i got some matches videos of Reinaldo From MKK TEAM and you got to see this level.. is just a another level....
 

DarkMoon

Kombatant
abc ur dead0 said:
think I'd rather let you be on this site and build a more pathetic image for yourself with every post. It's quite funny.

Or I could have 3000+ posts like you and not teach a soul a single thing. 3000+ posts and you are just another nobody. Ohwell.
 

Derek

Kombatant
ÐarkMoon said:
Whatever dude, I've got crazy fucking mental issues which I'm not afraid to admit.

I've got respect for you but you probably hate me.

I love you and everyone on this site. :?
Hey, that's a pretty good excuse for just being stupid. Next time I say something regrettably stupid I'll just say "I've got crazy fucking mental issues which I'm not afraid to admit"

GJ Darkmoon you helped a brother out.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
RZP your response is exactly what I expected, but it's not a matter of me vs Crazy's Sheeva, is a matter of players with the best usage of characters vs Crazy's Sheeva, and obviously I don't qualify as the best with any one character.
 

Annihilator83

Apprentice
Shock said:
RZP your response is exactly what I expected, but it's not a matter of me vs Crazy's Sheeva, is a matter of players with the best usage of characters vs Crazy's Sheeva, and obviously I don't qualify as the best with any one character.
Wait a minute, I thought you were the best with Ermac?

And wow, Hanzo's Mileena sure is deadly. :shock:
 

rzpmkkteam

Kombatant
RZP your response is exactly what I expected, but it's not a matter of me vs Crazy's Sheeva, is a matter of players with the best usage of characters vs Crazy's Sheeva, and obviously I don't qualify as the best with any one character.
Hey Im not insulting anyone! :D And what can I do if that IS the thruth! There is too few Mileena player to argue wich is the best and by now Hanzo stands as the best user.

Wait a minute, I thought you were the best with Ermac?

And wow, Hanzo's Mileena sure is deadly. Shocked
Gotta see Hanzos Ermac too!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MAbW9LAXbac