@Crustyclown guy lol well that just tells me those people are A. lazy or B. can't read but honestly, if a post regardless of how long or short isn't addressed at you per-se why would you care? lol
@BatmanBeatsCap Damn dude would it be possible to maybe shorten that? lol But I'll try to shorten mine to paragraphs to address your many smaller points at once as best I can, yeah I don't mind disagreeing I just feel that also as a big comic fan for over 25 years now, namely DC but I do read some Marvel and Image. I don't think RT was on point remotely, movies like FF, GL, DD etc are actually very bad films since I'm also a bit familiar with the film industry and an aspiring voice actor I know some people who I had the pleasure to work with and who know people really big in the industry, even they told me the movie got to shit on wayy too much by critics who half the time are biased and ignorant themselves regarding comic book films and video game adaptions. The people who hated it be it casuals or Marvel fans whoever, I don't pay much mind too when I read things like "batman killed someone and used a gun to fight Doomsday(even though it was more of a grenade launcher) or Superman's too dark, I just have to laugh. You say you read comics, I trust you do then you know those people are way off. Both characters have killed in the comics so I don't see that gripe, plus if you watch previous Batman films and even some Superman ones they've killed in them as well.
Iron Man 2 was ok, but honestly I think IM 3 was horrible and the fact that it did so well box office wise just proves that critics and "the masses" will praise a Marvel film because it's marvel, the ironic thing is there's actually far worse Marvel based films than DC. I'm not talking about specific universes btw just general comic book films ie Hulk, DD, Electra, Spiderman 3, TAS, IM3 etc I suppose that's only natural when you have more movies than DC though due to law of average...but still my personal gripe is when DC puts out a bad movie or controversial one like MOS and BvS it's like this big deal, while Marvel films get ignored. Age of Ultron another prime example, Ultron was done so poorly compared to the comics...yet nobody seemed to give a shit but DD in BvS people make a big deal out of? I don't get it...Especially since it was prime Doomsday and evolving to the one from the comics. My opinion. I'm just bringing up those DC vs. Marvel movie examples because it's true, not so much to defend BVS I know it's not perfect but it's not 28% bad either that's like extremely poor and it was not THAT bad as someone who's read comics for over 20 years now. IMHO
Ahh but you see those things you listed honestly are very relative and personal preference, like Batman killing(wouldn't call him a murderer) a murderer tends to willingly kill and enjoy it or often find it justified, Batman in the scenes in the movie really retaliated AFTER the thugs tried murdering him...let's be fair here and as I mentioned earlier, he's killed people in previous movies. Superman I didn't see as dumb just more confused, lost at times but heart in the right place.
Well I think they've done a decent to good job with DC films personally, but like Marvel's films could have been better but I do disagree on the DCAU, they're mostly gems for the most part so I can't complain. A few were meh but can't really say "that DCAU movie sucked badly" Killing Joke will be one of the best animated adaptions ever, calling it now and for the films I wouldn't worry too much Geoff Johns was recently promoted to be in charge of literally the entire DCU film movie/TV division, and if Flash is any indication of what's to come for the movies, then DC is in the right direction and right hands. Say what you will about the movies but when it comes to TV DC is killing it. 4 hit shows on CW, though Arrow could improve and Preacher now from the Vertigo DC division which is a fantastic show btw only two shows in, very pumped for more. The Video game world I agree have also done a great job, though for Injustice it helps that NRS guys are comic fans and worked with some DC editors and writers, same with Rocksteady. WB owns them as well so I'm very confident in that medium as well as a DC follower.
George Miller was debatable, I mean personally I'd be fine with his view or Snyder's for DC. Miller's view would also be gritty and dark, you watch Mad Max 2015? It's not exactly a light movie. DC though you have to remember for the most part has always been darker than Marvel I mean you read stories like Crisis, Convergence, Forever Evil, Flashpoint, Killing Joke can go on and on most people will tell you DC is way darker than Marvel is. So honestly I don't mind it, that's a preference but I agree with that darker direction, I know some people don't mind dance offs to save the universe but if I saw Superman or Batman challenging Stepphenwolf to a dance off I'd be very mad and like WTF is this shit?
FF original was ok for a campier era but every attempt has been worst than the last, DD, Electra were just failures flat out and the new FF I wouldn't waste my time. Ehh most of what you said is relative with MOS, I didn't see him as emo(that would be Parker in SM3 with eyeliner) but more lost and unsure of his future, plus it's an origin film so you have to remember Clark isn't Superman to start off, every hero goes through the motions before they get confidence and be the hero. I didn't many plotholes in MOS that BvS didn't answer or MOS didn't address at some point, now you really want plotholes Avengers has a TON. There's several vids and reviews out there pointing them out but most aren't aware or don't care cause it's a Marvel film that broke many records, it doesn't excuse the issues with the film however. MOS did a better job with Superman overall than SR did because in MOS's case it was his origin story, realistic and unsure like Smallville's version where as SR was already Superman for years, supposed to be experienced, smart etc and not this emotionless, creepy, emo Superman who just charges at Lex like he's a street thug....he knew he stole his crystals and yet flew after him without thinking....MOS Superman had way less experience and even with that flaw, still did a better job fighting Zod and other kryptonians and saving metropolis on his own. SR Superman jumps on a kryptonite island....it's just ridiculously dumb. I'll take an unsure, nooby Superman who does the right thing not perfectly any day over a Stupid Superman who should know better against Lex Luthor of all people...
I disagree, that's a personal preference regarding mix of comedy, drama, serious etc. For me it should be as close as the source material you base something off. Example, if MK reboot were done by Josh Whedon I'd be pissed and not happy because there's no place for dumb comedy in MK, outside of Cage being an exception and his jokes are often "in and out" I would not want the movie riddled with stupid unfunny oneliners that would only make a 10 year old laugh. Just saying. Some people don't mind changes to source material for sake of more humor, I'm not one of them. I prefer to be as close to source material as possible no matter what the movie is.
Injustice did not have a lot of comedy though, a wise crack here and there wasn't executed the same as Iron Man oneliners, Danceoffs or Grundy smashing someone and walking away saying "puny man in red cap her her" What about Batman Arkham games? No comedy there or in Dark Knight movie, yet also masterpieces...
I'm not saying DC and Marvel are alike or should be, I'm saying that's what makes both unique. Marvel has more comedy and lightheartedness while DC is more grim generally with less, it works for both.
The new 52 didn't fail completely, only some stories. The edgier, darker Superman at first wasn't liked but he grew on people, the sales of recent Superman issues where died is proof of that. I liked him, because it showed a more edgy yet still good Superman and modern take on the character. He wasn't a killer or rapist or something, then I could see but just had a bit more attitude which I liked but at the same time his heart was classic Superman, especially if you've read him the last few years he's done a lot to protect Earth and his friends. Even PC Superman admitted "wow This Superman honored both parents, I never thought of that" so in some ways 52 Superman was actually more honorable than oldschool Superman. The problem wasn't so much Superman though but other stories, I personally don't mind the darker vibe as I said earlier DC has always been darker than Marvel since both are the top dogs in the industry as to why I'm mentioning Marvel, since they're each others main competitor let's be honest here. I have the problem with Marvel of late because at least DC will try something new from time to time, listen to the fans then do what they want. Marvel, they pretty much rehash old stories and newer movies ie Infinity War, Secret Wars again and now Civil War 2.....it's nothing fresh, that's why I like DC more because I feel between stories like Convergence, New 52, Forever Evil and now Rebirth with a mix of old and new I'm getting something new, not just ok "another Dark Knight comic feeding off the movies success or another Infinite or Crisis story because it was such a successful arc. You follow what I'm saying?
I think a lot of people defending it like my case are simply comic fans who like darker, more serious accurate comic sourced stuff and doesn't want every DC film to be a campy, riddled with oneliners boarderline comedy mixed with action and a generic plot that most Marvel movies have to please the majority of viewers who happen to be kids. Most of the reasons I've read with people who hated BVS are all personal preference or flat out ignorant reasons like "Batman has never killed in the comics or other movies!" That is wrong on both accounts and this irks me, because it shows THOSE people aren't true DC fans, they're posers who watched animated series and maybe played a few DC games and think they know everything....not to mention Superman has also killed and there's alternate universe versions or timelines ie Flashpoint Batman? Flashpoint Superman? Injustice Superman? Since we're on the topic, and yes it's not an elseworlds it's a canon alternate universe within the DC Multiverse it was in Convergence which is canon if you're wondering, got destroyed by Telos...so when I see these false claims by people who seem to not know much about the actual comics, and not just a few shows past 10 years or New 52 it bugs me. It's like people judging MK based off of MKA and up and totally ignoring past MK legacy leading up to this point....
Yeah I totally disagree with you here lol bigtime, not so much banking on Snyder but a vision. He's had more success than failures so I can get why WB chose him and as for the DCUO trailer, yeah against other metahumans not Superman coming at you at super sonic speeds plus lol....his suit should have been shattered taking a hit like that at least or badly broken, Lex wasn't even shown flying or running back he just "appears" behind Superman no noise what so ever, it was done poorly and Flash was not done a justice....I'm sorry but again he's MUCH faster than that, the dude has dodged lightning before...built houses in few mins literally then bailed before anyone can see, outran nigh omnipotent beings who can instantly teleport from one side of the universe to the other, I can go on and on...point is they messed up on Flash, he should had no issue blitzing Black Adam in that shot.Injustice Flash was actually done much better, that part where he disarmed what, like few hundred of Superman's men holding automatics in a few seconds? THAT'S Flash, not struggling to tackle Black Adam from 100 yards away...lol. I'm not saying it was bad, but could have been better all I'm saying the DP guy could have done better research on everyone that's all I'm saying and WW seriously getting beat by DS and cersi so easily? I call more bs....overall it was a nice trailer, but not without some obvious flaws.
Uhh I don't see how Harley rips off anyone in Marvel lol she's original and nothing like DP, besides if you want to talk breaking the 4th wall Mxy did it long before DP did...so in that regard he's ripping off Mxy, and is an obvious ripoff of DS even the DP creator admits this that he's a direct parody of Deathstroke....they've both ripped off each other over the years, however it's a known fact Marvel has factually ripped off DC wayyyyyyy more. If you'd like I'll link you to quite a few videos on youtube proving such.
Exactly it's all relative....
I wouldn't consider that a failure, it did break records opening weekend, day etc and besides DP was more of a comedy of course it was going to do well that's what people like Marvel fans at least, and did you know BvS fell the third week off top movie, but did you know what else did? Civil War....again, I rest my case lol. When BvS fell off the 3rd week that's all I heard from Marvel fans, yet CW the same not a peep lol...and yes I know it hit a billion but not my point. It still fell pretty fast. I didn't see critics saying anything either, but again with BvS it was "for such a hyped movie fell just third week lol" I just find it insanely hypocritical...
Wait how is TDKR an overrated book? Miller is one of the best writers in the industry lol. So you must think his DD series is also overrated or just Batman? Rating means nothing to me, the real rating of BvS is rated R anyway it's the 3 hour uncut version that Snyder wanted to show but WB said yeah cut it for the theatrical version...Besides, the best movie number box office wise ever is rated PG 13 so I really don't see how rating means much here. People saw DP for 3 main reasons. A. It's Marvel movie B. Origin's sucked horribly and the whole Baraka Superman DP was an utter joke and C. They got DP right this time. Does that mean I'd rather read DP over TDK miller books though? Hell no lol Also SW while fun is vastly overrated, Force Awakens while entertaining wasn't remotely as good as the originals, better than the prequels? Sure but not saying much considering people hated them. Besides, it's not like WB hasn't been up their BvS may not have hit a bill but broke opening records, they're up there with movies like HP, LOTR etc in the worldwide numbers department so I assure you it's not just Disney who can bank on a movie. Quality definitely is important but you have to remember these movies are defined now not by quality but more so popularity. Right now in movie verse the Avengers are more popular than the Justice League, but Batman alone is arguably the most popular than anyone else. JL will finally start next year so we'll see but I can bet you less kids will want to see that than they did Avengers.
If they made a movie similar to Timm's I'm sure it would have made more, but also mostly due to being more relatable to kids, that's why WB made Snyder cut the film to PG13 and shorter time. It didn't do horrible just could have done better(like most movies) I mean Xmen could have done better, Avengers AOU etc so it's not just DC films I can assure you. However, you have to realize if it's too lighthearted the oldschool DC fans wouldn't have liked that. I wouldn't worry too much, one thing good for you is WB confirmed as did Snyder and Johns that Justice League will be a bit lighter in tone, not quite as grim and dark as MOS and BvS. I'm sure Flash will be a wiseass to a degree anyway that'll help for those comic relief fans out there that you won't get from Batman or Superman.
I don't see how MOS was done poorly, it was 50/50 and most people I know happened to enjoy it more than dislike, but another movie that was enjoyable and nice fresher take on Superman that the critics hated, personally I don't listen to them anyway, never have, never will. I am more than capable of judging for myself and not depending on a so called "professional critic" when the reality is he just gets paid for a most likely more ignorant perspective than that of my own who reads the books daily if anything or that of the real DC fans who read a lot as well.
Flash was done fine, especially if you've been watching the current show he breaches the universe timeline and even multiverse, speedsters in general daily. I don't see how it was done poorly, it was just a prime example of ignorant people who don't read or know the comics. He shouldn't have been confused with a random robot when he was clearly in full red outfit lol....Honestly, what casual who knows nothing about the JL then would want to willingly watch this movie then bitch over something they don't get that should be common sense as to whom someone is? That's like seeing an MK movie rated R and after each fight they kill the guy and the viewer going "wait why do they kill the guy in different ways after each fight, this confuses me?" yet it's common sense to those who actually follow the series...why they do that.
Yeah IMO I think BvS was a pretty good movie actually and not nearly worthy of rank of "bad or horrible" that the critics claimed, a lot of people disagreed with their take. It's one thing to disappoint, another to say it's flat out horrible which BvS was not. I've seen horrible films, it was not horrible.. like I said watch FF then get back to me lol if you honestly think that movie was better than BvS or MOS then I'll just take it you hate DC deep down or are a Marvel fan posing as a DC fan because I dont know anyone who thought FF was good, literally not a single person I've spoken too as of yet has liked that movie. Honestly, at least BvS had mixed reception mostly critics hating it while fans liked it with others just confused or disappointed....lol well still a better line than "Puny God growl" and I challenge you to a dance off" and raving mini trees in a pot" are so much better lines right? lol At least the perry line wasn't made to make people laugh but more of a nod to how old Superman is....and let's not forget Avengers one Tony's famous line "If the Earth is destroyed we can damn well Avenge it" good God, can you get any cheesier Marvel? lol We get it, you're the Avengers I don't think people are that slow....
At any rate, to save us both time from typing it's probably just best to agree to disagree. I'm not going to judge DC too harshly because they're literally 2 movies in while Marvel already has an established fanbase, it's just not fair to compare them both directly at this point not until JL comes out at least besides, since this is about Injustice afterall I think we can both agree DC does gaming much better than Marvel and has for some time.
