TYM’s Tier List Discussion Thread

[trufenix]

Why would you treat Sonic Fox's frequently changing and wildly unpredictable opinions as law? Have we not seen enough evidence that he is not playing the same games as the rest of us?

 

[Juggs]

Geras... wtf LOL

Yeah gonna be interesting what he has to say about Geras. I’ll wait to hear his explanation I suppose, probably will still disagree though, lol.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

Yeah gonna be interesting what he has to say about Geras. I’ll wait to hear his explanation I suppose, probably will still disagree though, lol.

I can't agree with anyone that doesn't think Geras isn't in the top 3 for the game, let alone not arguably the best.

 

[lionheart21]

Why would you treat Sonic Fox's frequently changing and wildly unpredictable opinions as law? Have we not seen enough evidence that he is not playing the same games as the rest of us?

I do agree that going by one person's opinions on tier lists isn't definitive proof of the game's balance, even if its someone like SonicFox. However, I am interested in hearing his reasons as to why he feels that way.

 

[Juggs]

Why would you treat Sonic Fox's frequently changing and wildly unpredictable opinions as law? Have we not seen enough evidence that he is not playing the same games as the rest of us?

Who are you talking to?

 

[santanabar]

SonicFox’s updated tier list:

S: Sonya, Cassie, Jacqui, Erron Black, Kabal
S-: Scorpion, Skarlet, Baraka, Geras
A+: Kung Lao, Cetrion, Noob, Jade, Kitana, Raiden, Jax
A: Liu Kang, Johnny Cage, D’Vorah, Shao Kahn, Kotal, Sub-Zero
A-: Frost, Kano
B: Kollector

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1134214570946584577

rofl sonic is by far the best fighting game player ever, but this is why great players don't necessary make good coaches/teachers/analysts.

 

[M2Dave]

Why would you treat Sonic Fox's frequently changing and wildly unpredictable opinions as law? Have we not seen enough evidence that he is not playing the same games as the rest of us?

At least the tier lists generate discussion and an exchange of ideas, even if people disagree with them.

I can't agree with anyone that doesn't think Geras isn't in the top 3 for the game, let alone not arguably the best.

From my observation, the only weakness he may have is that a handful of characters can low profile or avoid the second hit of f+2,1,2.

• Johnny Cage's neutral crouch
• Kitana's d+1, d+2, and d+2
• Noob's d+4
• Skarlet's 2,1,2

Those are the ones that I know of, but I guess there may be more.

 

[-Nachtmahr-]

Kabal is top secret top tier because SF had mk9 flashbacks after smoking d'vorah's bugs. Nice to see as an old kabal main...but no. Vs mashers, yes.

 

[Ayx]

I'm pretty sure Kabal's top tier explanation is going to be most to all involving his restand. It seems most top players are all pointing out how powerful the getup system is in its current build and characters that have restands are slowly going to be climbing up.

 

[JSF]

kaba isnt S tier, and glad fox changed frost to being bottom 3 where she belongs, pls buff nrs

 

[Wallach]

Kabal is top secret top tier because SF had mk9 flashbacks after smoking d'vorah's bugs. Nice to see as an old kabal main...but no. Vs mashers, yes.

It's bizarre, honestly. There are plenty of compelling arguments for him being a strong character, but I haven't heard any for him being a top tier character.

To Ayx's point, I agree a restand is a useful tool but at +2 I don't think it has enough ability to provoke. If his average conversions were higher maybe I could see his placement but his space control does not offset how mediocre his confirms convert. The one thing that's really consistent about the top tier characters is that they either have outlier levels of average conversion or space control.

 

[Peckapowa]

damn the amount of people sleeping on how good liu and cetrion are is crazy.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Kabal is top 5. So sure I'd tattoo it on my face.

 

[trufenix]

I do agree that going by one person's opinions on tier lists isn't definitive proof of the game's balance, even if its someone like SonicFox. However, I am interested in hearing his reasons as to why he feels that way.

Why?

 

[trufenix]

Who are you talking to?

Obviously not you

 

[Dreamcatcher]

Kabal is top 5. So sure I'd tattoo it on my face.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

I've been saying for a couple weeks that Geras is overrated. He has good tools but if you cant open up your opponent, good luck. Deoxys didnt get a KB on sonic until the third game at CB.

Its Atrocious syndrome all over again IMO.

 

[Peckapowa]

I'm actually referring to MK9 cyrax. The one with 100% resets, 70% unbreakables.

He's also a character that was only properly represented by DJT near the end of the game.

Nobody was showing he can compete with other top tiers either, yet there it was.

There's literally 0 arguments you guys have for kabal not being a top tier character other than "he's not represented".

1 month into the game. In 1 real tournament.

Kabal strikes me as a character without a real strong weakness. I felt he was on the cusp of the very top. maybe his forward ground mobility / advancing potential is a weakness.

-top tier fatal blow - amazing at the end of close rounds / closing rounds
-standing reset options
-good positional control with his combos.
-strong air-control including a very good downward projectile which is one of the best tools in the game and also a ranged jump in
-decent zoning
-decent mixup options he doesn't have to use.
-decent counter-zoning with run
-staggerability
-solid crushing blows
-a variety of solid normals - ranged hit confirmable combo starters that space(b12 and f22) - safe 9f mid - hit confirmable fast jabs -

 

[Peckapowa]

Yeah gonna be interesting what he has to say about Geras. I’ll wait to hear his explanation I suppose, probably will still disagree though, lol.

Geras doesn't have that great of ranged footsies/whiff punishing b2 and f1 are unsafe to hit confirm. HIs strength is knockdown pressure and wakeup game is op. f212 isn't quite on par with some of the nine frame mid in the game.

I still think he's maybe one of the best players in the game.

 

[BuffRaiden]

Geras doesn't have that great of ranged footsies/whiff punishing b2 and f1 are unsafe to hit confirm. HIs strength is knockdown pressure and wakeup game is op. f212 isn't quite on par with some of the nine frame mid in the game.

I still think he's maybe one of the best players in the game.

Short of his ridiculous crushing blows and his throw loops. His actual tools (strings) seem quite fair. If they remove the crazy throw pressure and tone down crushing blow damage, I'm fine with him. He's very weak to aerial zoning and the 9 frame mid characters (jacqui / cassie) and people are starting to figure that out a bit. He's not really a free win machine anymore like he was day 1.

 

[HapHaxion]

Kabal strikes me as a character without a real strong weakness. I felt he was on the cusp of the very top. maybe his forward ground mobility / advancing potential is a weakness.

-top tier fatal blow - amazing at the end of close rounds / closing rounds
-standing reset options
-good positional control with his combos.
-strong air-control including a very good downward projectile which is one of the best tools in the game and also a ranged jump in
-decent zoning
-decent mixup options he doesn't have to use.
-decent counter-zoning with run
-staggerability
-solid crushing blows
-a variety of solid normals - ranged hit confirmable combo starters that space(b12 and f22) - safe 9f mid - hit confirmable fast jabs -

Overall who would you say are his best and worst MUs?

 

[Peckapowa]

Overall who would you say are his best and worst MUs?

He's not my main so I wouldnt be the most informed. I also think it depends on his varaitions. In general I feel Cassie Jade maybe cetrion do well. I could scorpgiving him issues as well

 

[Peckapowa]

Short of his ridiculous crushing blows and his throw loops. His actual tools (strings) seem quite fair. If they remove the crazy throw pressure and tone down crushing blow damage, I'm fine with him. He's very weak to aerial zoning and the 9 frame mid characters (jacqui / cassie) and people are starting to figure that out a bit. He's not really a free win machine anymore like he was day 1.

I personally feel his black magic move recovers way too fast on whiff and maybe could use a startup neef

 

[Geoffmeister]

Spoiler: Waz' tierlist

Spoiler: REO updated tierlist

Think REO got the most accurate tierlist so far! Can't argue with this one.
Noticed Kabal is in everyones top 10 as well

 

[M.D.]

Spoiler: TIERLIST after playing some jade in 200 ping