Tournament Viable Characters for 2013

[w1nter warz]

Frothy downplaying smoke segment on lao ,sonya and cyrax......

...smoke has incredible difficulty scoring reliable hits on these characters because they do not play a footsie game that smoke can compete in, so the resets are miracles because they're either A extremely difficult given the stupid gravity and combo properties on AAs, or B the opponent will have so much meter at all times that smoke needs 4-5 solid combos per round in order to kill, unless he hits the lottery and lands a b23 on somebody with no meter

Well if your problem is resets off anti airs, i still stand by my segment because I seen d1 to reset landed consistantly.
Up close pressure, cyrax wins. Footsies not too sure, the smoke bomb is way more powerful then you give it credit for.Me wiffing a d4 or a d3 can lead to a smoke bomb. Also, if you feel that his d4 is such an issue , you can either stepback and make it wiff or counter it with smoke d3.

If you are worried about net and a dream, cyrax has to take the same risk because you can easily jump over and full combo reset me.

Cyrax has less to worry about after getting past mid screen. Even then me planting a bomb can still be lead to a reset.

Smoke is tourny viable. Just because the greatest smoke player kt smith stop playing means you give up hope.

 

[Crimson Panther]

cyrax has a better down 4, better strings, pressue, a command grab and better resets. its not a terrible MU for Smoke but he does clearly lose. People gotta understand that smokes standing 2 has no range on it. its a great anti air tool but horrible for pressure. Smokes only true offensive attack is b2.....that only gets him so far.

ok true. i just dont think cyrax totally blows up smoke. all he has to do is stay full screen as much as he can right?

 

[HD Smoke]

Do you seriously have smoke losing that many mus and CSz beating him? Your a trainwreck

Every other Smoke player will deep down agree with these MU numbers. This is just being real. CSZ does in fact beat Smoke, i remember j360 giving CDjrs Smoke a hard time (@CD jr is the only player to win a major with Smoke). Smoke is one of few characters that has a hard time dealing with CSZ's dive kick and Ice parry. Dive kick blows up Smokebomb and Parry blows up B2. Granted i never really lose this MU it is still tough for Smoke.

Kang is another character that people dont really know beats Smoke. His pressure can eat Smokes pokes, he can mess with shake using air fireballs and his offense and parry destroy smoke upclose. Death if you played Smoke you would know he sucks upclose and uses gimmicks to get combos going. Noone should fall for D1 bomb or D4 bomb anymore. His main way to get combos is anti air d1 or 2 which is amazing but people should not be jumping anyway. Getting around SB is way too easy as well.

Reptile beats Smoke. pressure breaks smoke and reptile can apply it very easy and blow up SB which leads smoke to just using pokes. (how does a character win a MU if poking is all he can really do) b2 gets eaten up by dash as well. If people want to say this MU is even than really think about it. wafflez plays this game all the time and is our best Smoke by far and Chris G with a 2011 Reptile made him switch to cage.....why? because its not a comfortable match up for Smoke.

Kenshi doesnt lose to Smoke that is a joke, upclose it is seriously all Kenshi, Smoke can just trade with his zoning and thats why it is even.

Oneday those who dont play Smoke will finally agree with the Smoke players. Does he suck? No saying he sucks is just trolling, but he does clearly struggle in all those MU's i listed. Having only b2 and pokes for an offense tool does not make a top tier character...just being real. Smoke is around 12th-15th as ive always said.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Well if your problem is resets off anti airs, i still stand by my segment because I seen d1 to reset landed consistantly.
Up close pressure, cyrax wins. Footsies not too sure, the smoke bomb is way more powerful then you give it credit for.Me wiffing a d4 or a d3 can lead to a smoke bomb. Also, if you feel that his d4 is such an issue , you can either stepback and make it wiff or counter it with smoke d3.

If you are worried about net and a dream, cyrax has to take the same risk because you can easily jump over and full combo reset me.

Cyrax has less to worry about after getting past mid screen. Even then me planting a bomb can still be lead to a reset.

Smoke is tourny viable. Just because the greatest smoke player kt smith stop playing means you give up hope.

Smokes backlash is nonexistent so making d4 whiff isn't exactly viable. If you're whiffing it u need to evaluate your spacing better. Cyrax backlash net is absolutely retarded vs smoke, it's really hard to jump at the proper range. From that range Cyrax is free to not net and block sb on reaction or aa on reaction or go into f2 of smoke does nothing which also makes sb whiff. Cyrax dominates smoke right outside d4 range. It's not a lack of hope, it's you downplaying your character.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Smoke doesn't lose to kang gtfo hd smoke

Stop basing your MUs on shoddy online play

 

[Dizzy]

just coming in here to point out how a cyrax player is saying he loses vs. smoke because of resets

also HD Smoke, just stop trying to get smoke below shang tsung and sektor on the tier list, the dream is dead

 

[HD Smoke]

Smoke doesn't lose to kang gtfo hd smoke

he does....ask MIT he has explained it before. its close but Kang wins. Have you ever watched Xblades blow up Smoke players? he has no problem. True rushdown built characters beat Smoke. Play this MU over and over and it becomes obvious Kang can be a real problem.

 

[16 Bit]

Wafflez also beat up Chris G 3-0 at Season's Beatings. Tommy can't lose a single game to Chris G without the Smoke MU numbers needing to be changed.

I also like how we're told "just don't jump" when Tommy's biggest tears are how Smoke is free to jk.

 

[HD Smoke]

ok true. i just dont think cyrax totally blows up smoke. all he has to do is stay full screen as much as he can right?

Eventually cyrax will get in. his anti air speical from a far can get him in and than he has to be careful since smokes standing 2 blows it up, at that point though he is around midrange and thats where he starts to beat Smoke. B2 can easily get whiffed and blown up by cyrax. Standing 2 isnt safe to use on the ground. Think of Smokes standing 2 as sektors 6frame jab tiny range but slower. its no bueno.

 

[ForeverKing]

LOL Yes, even Kabal. But even in his absolute worst matchups, Kabal doesn't have to work as hard as others.

Kabal doesn't even have 5-5 matchups. He doesn't have any even matchups, let alone LOSING matchups. What are you talking about?

 

[w1nter warz]

Smokes backlash is nonexistent so making d4 whiff isn't exactly viable. If you're whiffing it u need to evaluate your spacing better. Cyrax backlash net is absolutely retarded vs smoke, it's really hard to jump at the proper range. From that range Cyrax is free to not net and block sb on reaction or aa on reaction or go into f2 of smoke does nothing which also makes sb whiff. Cyrax dominates smoke right outside d4 range. It's not a lack of hope, it's you downplaying your character.

its not that hard to step back a little and make a d4 or d3 wiff. The whole point of footsies is that you use them at max range to help you get close. You can easily wiff by walking back. Proper range for backdash net? You can easily shake it that range or just smoke away and block. I don't think it is possible to block smoke bomb at that range on reaction. You can just use b2 to counter f2. Anywhere closer it is a huge risk for cyrax to net. It is you losing hope, you don't consider all the things to counter what cyrax does because of his reset without thinking you have a reset . Both cyrax and smoke have options that can counter one another. The only really advantage I have is with my strings but I have to chase you around to get into that position.

 

[w1nter warz]

just coming in here to point out how a cyrax player is saying he loses vs. smoke because of resets

also HD Smoke, just stop trying to get smoke below shang tsung and sektor on the tier list, the dream is dead

Well it is because smoke's resets are easier to start because it is easier to land a smoke bomb than a net.

Btw, this is coming from the someone in a scene where everyone downplays their main character, fuck outta here.

 

[FrothyOmen]

it is easier to land a smoke bomb than a net.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Also lol at implying it's easier to shake on reaction at half screen than it is to block on reaction, gtfo man

 

[w1nter warz]

Why are my implications so invalid, smoke bomb is 14 f start up while net is 17. Also, smoke bomb travels faster than the net does.

If you want the matchup done right then just simply state why you think my posts are wrong, don't post memes and think its good enough to justify your claims. You are smarter than that. Other cyrax players also don't have smoke losing to cyrax. It is either 5-5 or 6-4 in smoke favor.

 

[GuamoKun]

w1nter warz FrothyOmen

In terms of speed, Smoke Bomb>Net

in terms of Hitbox? Net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SmokeBomb

In this game, hitboxes are more important than speed. Which is why a 9 frame mid that has amazing reach like Kabal's f4 is infinitely better than a 6 frame high launcher that has a T-Rex arm hitbox.

Even so, they are both dangerous but Cyrax is just so horrifying.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

The smoke downplaying is absurd

 

[Dizzy]

Smoke doesn't have breaker traps off his smoke bomb like cyrax does off his net. This is the #1 difference between their resets. Cyrax's are definitely more versatile.

Cyrax is just a better char. Better normals, better up close and better mixups (cmd grab and strike, one of the best mixups in the game) any time a d4 hits or you are able to get a blocked JIP/deep jk.

Even considering this, smoke is still really good, so don't think im not saying that. Cyrax is just absurdly top lol

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

yeah can we get back on topic and talk about how bad reptile is? kthx

 

[w1nter warz]

Smoke doesn't have breaker traps off his smoke bomb like cyrax does off his net. This is the #1 difference between their resets. Cyrax's are definitely more versatile.

Cyrax is just a better char. Better normals, better up close and better mixups (cmd grab and strike, one of the best mixups in the game) any time a d4 hits or you are able to get a blocked JIP/deep jk.

Even considering this, smoke is still really good, so don't think im not saying that. Cyrax is just absurdly top lol

Oh I know versatile wise, cyrax is way better in resets, I just feel in this specific matchup, smoke bomb speed makes up for it.
Also i do agree overall in tier list wise, cyrax is way higher then smoke. I just think smoke does not lose to cyrax.

GuamoKun, you are comparing moves that are 3 frames apart. I agree in your perspective, hitbox matters more than the speed of move. But with these two specials at full screen cyrax net hits you at 67f , smoke bomb is 28f. The speed of this bomb is way faster which has to count for something.

 

[Justice]

Kabal doesn't even have 5-5 matchups. He doesn't have any even matchups, let alone LOSING matchups. What are you talking about?

I'm talking about Mortal Kombat. What are you talking about?

 

[Seapeople]

Reptile beats Smoke. pressure breaks smoke and reptile can apply it very easy and blow up SB which leads smoke to just using pokes. (how does a character win a MU if poking is all he can really do).

Wait what. Reptile's pressure isn't scary at all. His fastest normal is 11 frames and his pokes don't get him anywhere. Saying that all you can do is poke out is crazy, just 21~sb.

 

[smokey]

People disregard that smokes strings are neutral on block and he has a 6 frame d1 and a 7 frame +on hit d3.

Frustrate people into using armoured moves to crush your "frame traps" and kill them when they cant break.

Player 1 helps though...

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Saying that all you can do is poke out is crazy, just 21~sb.

that awkward moment where the other character's combo starter is as fast as your d1

 

[GGA Wafflez]

okay here goes: smoke does struggle with most of the top 10, but he beats cyrax hands down (at ANY level) and he does great against that one freddy you might find during the entirety of your offline career lol. im not a down player but i DO NOT believe smoke is a tournament viable character. the reason being is because when we speak in terms of offline tournaments you should assume that there will be a couple kung laos and a decent sonya present. (not to mention kabroken) Wafflez i'm pushing to make that lao MU officially 7-3 because LBSH we all know it is. however, i do believe smoke makes an excellent tourney viable secondary.
- A_SECTS_DEFENDER

it has been discussed and agreed by cyrax players that smoke does not beat him in no way shape or form. cyrax takes the game, chews it up, and vomits brokeness.