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Tournament Viable Characters for 2013

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
Smoke's not viable

Liu Kang 5-5
Kung Lao 3.5/6.5
Johnny Cage 4/6
Mileena 5-5
Cyrax 4-6
Sonya Blade 3-7
Jax 4-6
Shang Tsung 6-4
Kabal 3-7
Kitana 5-5
Kenshi 5-5
Freddy Krueger 6-4
Sektor 5-5
Reptile 5-5
Raiden 5-5
Skarlet 4-6

Smoke cannot compete at the highest possible level without an alt because he loses so badly to kabal, cage, sonya, lao, and jax. A dual-mainer can make good use of him but alone he is not usable.

who cares that he beats or goes even with a lot of the top tiers? He loses to some of the most used tournament characters out there and people are about to say he's viable outside of miracle resets? gtfo
why are they miracle? lol dude gtfo dude.your a funny man.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
i wasnt trying to be disrespectful to the players in angola btw.i'll look forward to seeing you play at evo or playing you if i go.im sure you'll wreck some shit.
I know you weren't i don't get offended that easily, but its true, some players are free, others are getting good.

its more like a ladder, those who can keep up with the levelup train are making fast progress and presenting good results, those who can't and keep thinking counter pick is the solution to everything are falling even more and more behind and staying free behind players that once were shit.

Today we even have top cyrax, who can play on the "A net and a dream" line.
A top Kabal
Top Jax
And some others players who are able to impress with their mains, even a Kano main is been giving goosebumps to some old top players who can't keep up lol.
 
why are they miracle? lol dude gtfo dude.your a funny man.
smoke is going to be hitting lao and sonya out of the air with d1 most of the time, which leads to the hardest reset in the entire game both midscreen and in the corner. cage builds free meter so smkoe has to hit him with 4-5 combos per round just to have a shot at killing him, assuming he's on point with his resets. smoke cannot play footsies with kabal, and kabal is still able to zone smoke from 1/2-3/5 screen with relative ease (smoke generally has to shake on reads as opposed to reaction from this distance, a very poor investment for smoke). Smoke cannot play footsies with cyrax as he's even better at destroying footsies than kabal, literally just sit at halfscreen and mix up between net and dash in f2 all day, if smoke's wrong he's getting put into cyrax's bullshit pressure or reset for 80%. Smoke is at a clear disadvantage vs cyrax everywhere on the screen except at fullscreen where he can punish bombs with sb if he just so happens to throw one at the same time as cyrax. smoke is reliant on hitting sonya out of divekick with d1 to score hits, which grants nearly impossible resets and barely 25% meterless, at the risk of 30-something and being put into sonya pressure.

smoke has incredible difficulty scoring reliable hits on these characters because they do not play a footsie game that smoke can compete in, so the resets are miracles because they're either A extremely difficult given the stupid gravity and combo properties on AAs, or B the opponent will have so much meter at all times that smoke needs 4-5 solid combos per round in order to kill, unless he hits the lottery and lands a b23 on somebody with no meter
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
smoke is going to be hitting lao and sonya out of the air with d1 most of the time, which leads to the hardest reset in the entire game both midscreen and in the corner.
I am so sick of this argument. I have had to play a smoke player in the Dallas scene, who came from ONLINE to offline, and he hit his resets 100% OF THE TIME. D1 anti airs, d1 smoke bombs, naked smoke bombs, you name it. He did it in multiple games and on different stages. Obviously they are hard, I get that. But saying "He probably wont land his resets", does NOT belong in MU discussion. MU are determined by the characters tools and top level play. You dont see Kabal players saying "Yeah man most characters get in on Kabal because you wont get the iAGBs low enough". It just doesnt make any sense to say things like this. A lot of things in this game are height dependent and technical, but we dont just say you will probably drop them. If you drop them that is on you, it has no bearing on the matchup.

Edit: Just to be clear im not commenting on the numbers themselves, just saying you shouldnt use dropping resets as part of your argument.
 
I am so sick of this argument. I have had to play a smoke player in the Dallas scene, who came from ONLINE to offline, and he hit his resets 100% OF THE TIME. D1 anti airs, d1 smoke bombs, naked smoke bombs, you name it. He did it in multiple games and on different stages. Obviously they are hard, I get that. But saying "He probably wont land his resets", does NOT belong in MU discussion. MU are determined by the characters tools and top level play. You dont see Kabal players saying "Yeah man most characters get in on Kabal because you wont get the iAGBs low enough". It just doesnt make any sense to say things like this. A lot of things in this game are height dependent and technical, but we dont just say you will probably drop them. If you drop them that is on you, it has no bearing on the matchup.

Edit: Just to be clear im not commenting on the numbers themselves, just saying you shouldnt use dropping resets as part of your argument.
i don't understand why they don't belong... what smoke player at the highest possible level hits their resets 100% of the time? none of them, they all drop resets. especially off antiairs. the only consistent aa reset combo for smoke is 2, 3d12, 4~sb, f4~reset but that requires a max height 2 and no fear in throwing that 3d12... if you mistime it your opponent is waking up on u for free. so no, i don't think the argument that smoke's resets off antiairs are unreliable is a moot point. i do think that off of all ground hits smoke should be resetting 1000% of the time, i agree with you there, its just those antiair ones that are impossible

look at cyrax players, their resets are easy mode, it's impossible to drop those because there are no f-ing variables to them other than net height... but given how long they're stuck at a certain height its easy to judge and account for.

tldr i agree smoke's ground resets dropping is on the player, not the MU number. But you cannot base a mu number on air resets being consistent, which in most standard cases are harder than just frames to land as there's way more factors in play than just hitting 24 plum flower or something like that.

In magical perfect land sure, those resets could be viable. but i could also make the counterpoint that the players that would be exposing themselves to possible AAs would space it out so only smoke's crap antiairs will work, if you really want to go down that road lol but thats just way too theory-heavy to be relevant to anything at all
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Baraka is the most tournament viable low-tier character imo (minus maybe Sub-Zero).
Hmmm

He does only have 2 2-8s against Kabal and Kenshi. A few 3-7s but not any that are ridiculous(Ok Raiden is but still lol).

I could see him being one of the more viable bottom ten characters, as long as you dont run into the KKK(Kenshi, Kabal, Kenshi)
 

EVB SomeCubanGuy

*Hissssssssssss*
Hmmm

He does only have 2 2-8s against Kabal and Kenshi. A few 3-7s but not any that are ridiculous(Ok Raiden is but still lol).

I could see him being one of the more viable bottom ten characters, as long as you dont run into the KKK(Kenshi, Kabal, Kenshi)
IMO Tetra was right...he has no 8-2s.

And xKhaoTikx ...shit looks JUST like Kitana's F2...I know that dude's pain lol.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
i don't understand why they don't belong... what smoke player at the highest possible level hits their resets 100% of the time? none of them, they all drop resets. especially off antiairs. the only consistent aa reset combo for smoke is 2, 3d12, 4~sb, f4~reset but that requires a max height 2 and no fear in throwing that 3d12... if you mistime it your opponent is waking up on u for free. so no, i don't think the argument that smoke's resets off antiairs are unreliable is a moot point. i do think that off of all ground hits smoke should be resetting 1000% of the time, i agree with you there, its just those antiair ones that are impossible

look at cyrax players, their resets are easy mode, it's impossible to drop those because there are no f-ing variables to them other than net height... but given how long they're stuck at a certain height its easy to judge and account for.

tldr i agree smoke's ground resets dropping is on the player, not the MU number. But you cannot base a mu number on air resets being consistent, which in most standard cases are harder than just frames to land as there's way more factors in play than just hitting 24 plum flower or something like that.

In magical perfect land sure, those resets could be viable. but i could also make the counterpoint that the players that would be exposing themselves to possible AAs would space it out so only smoke's crap antiairs will work, if you really want to go down that road lol but thats just way too theory-heavy to be relevant to anything at all
Like I said, an online player made the jump and was hitting his AA resets 100% of the time. I get that its hard but apparently it is possible. When people found Hilde's infinites(SCV) that were almost impossible to do, they still were a factor in MU discussion because there were those who can do it consistently. I know what you mean by height dependent, as my main Baraka corner combo(B31 B31 b11 spin F4) is height dependent also. However, I know after the b11 whether I will get the combo or not, and if I cant I do a double spin at the end instead of F4. You just have to know the right time to use the resets.
 
Like I said, an online player made the jump and was hitting his AA resets 100% of the time. I get that its hard but apparently it is possible. When people found Hilde's infinites(SCV) that were almost impossible to do, they still were a factor in MU discussion because there were those who can do it consistently. I know what you mean by height dependent, as my main Baraka corner combo(B31 B31 b11 spin F4) is height dependent also. However, I know after the b11 whether I will get the combo or not, and if I cant I do a double spin at the end instead of F4. You just have to know the right time to use the resets.
Lemme know your boy's name and when he enters a tournament doing those AA resets of his