All of this. Especially that last bit. Neptune and Buffalo will have you scratching your head going "Wtf, Sub's in this game?" As you get face fucked by ice in the corner and have any sort of neutral game snuffed out by a vaguely sub zero shaped block of ice.Okay i'm about to ramble about seb of da 0.
Basically anything he does can be hit confirmed into 40%, if you block then he'll have a mind game of mb burst, regular burst, or clone. It's impossible to react and punish clone on this game since burst is good enough to use frequently. Clone is also 8 frames so there's that.
For awhile Sub was this honest boy. Buffalo was winning but he was winning by winning neutral with clone and ice ball, and broke jump ins, good mids, etc. Recently Raptor found a true mix up off of mb command grab, using jump 2 or jump 3. It's essentially level 3 trait Firestorm stuff, on a character that is never unsafe and has considerably better neutral than Firestorm. He can also get this started off of his f3, which would probably be the best f3 in the game if Cheetah didn't exist.
Sub's only possible weaknesses imo are lack of real mix ups and anti airs. As I explained above, the first weakness no longer exists. The 2nd one is whatever since he has an 8 frame clone with almost no cool down.
People say "oh well X and Y string is unsafe", but why would Sub need to use anything outside of the standing 1 strings or f22? Imagine if I said Superman is bad because of a string that isn't f23. Like all he needs is f23.
What am I missing here? Great mid that can be hit confirmed into 40%, block confirmed into safety or plus frames. Super duper pooper broke jump in. Top 5 damage. 8 frame clone, giving him corner lockdown in a lot of match ups, and also one of the best counterpoking tools in the game. Also air clone is ridiculously good at baiting trip guards.
Top 5 wake up free as fuck. When people think of slide, they think, oh well it's not Possessed Kenshi, or Mystic Ermac. Where are they in this game? A fast, fully invincible low, for no meter? That's cheap asf in this game.
MB ice ball makes zoning risky for a decent amount of characters. Slide also recovers in 15 frames on whiff, so if spaced correctly, he can use it to get in on zoning easily.
He also has little mix ups like air hammer or b11 off of jump ins. 111 or 113.
I think he's probably top 3, just behind Catwoman and Black Adam. If you don't agree with me, that's cool. All i'll say is that if you don't think he's top 10 at least, hit up Buffalo or Sweet Neptune for games.
he said darkseid is top 5 onceSonic has him 2nd right now.
Okay i'm about to ramble about seb of da 0.
Basically anything he does can be hit confirmed into 40%, if you block then he'll have a mind game of mb burst, regular burst, or clone. It's impossible to react and punish clone on this game since burst is good enough to use frequently. Clone is also 8 frames so there's that.
For awhile Sub was this honest boy. Buffalo was winning but he was winning by winning neutral with clone and ice ball, and broke jump ins, good mids, etc. Recently Raptor found a true mix up off of mb command grab, using jump 2 or jump 3. It's essentially level 3 trait Firestorm stuff, on a character that is never unsafe and has considerably better neutral than Firestorm. He can also get this started off of his f3, which would probably be the best f3 in the game if Cheetah didn't exist.
Sub's only possible weaknesses imo are lack of real mix ups and anti airs. As I explained above, the first weakness no longer exists. The 2nd one is whatever since he has an 8 frame clone with almost no cool down.
People say "oh well X and Y string is unsafe", but why would Sub need to use anything outside of the standing 1 strings or f22? Imagine if I said Superman is bad because of a string that isn't f23. Like all he needs is f23.
What am I missing here? Great mid that can be hit confirmed into 40%, block confirmed into safety or plus frames. Super duper pooper broke jump in. Top 5 damage. 8 frame clone, giving him corner lockdown in a lot of match ups, and also one of the best counterpoking tools in the game. Also air clone is ridiculously good at baiting trip guards.
Top 5 wake up free as fuck. When people think of slide, they think, oh well it's not Possessed Kenshi, or Mystic Ermac. Where are they in this game? A fast, fully invincible low, for no meter? That's cheap asf in this game.
MB ice ball makes zoning risky for a decent amount of characters. Slide also recovers in 15 frames on whiff, so if spaced correctly, he can use it to get in on zoning easily.
He also has little mix ups like air hammer or b11 off of jump ins. 111 or 113.
I think he's probably top 3, just behind Catwoman and Black Adam. If you don't agree with me, that's cool. All i'll say is that if you don't think he's top 10 at least, hit up Buffalo or Sweet Neptune for games.
Supergirl isn't included because I think she's gotten worse as people have adapted and gotten used to her.
Based off what?I think Wonder Woman is #6
If they have Superman winning, they're on some type of drug or have not played it at high level. Buffalo downplays so hard and still says it's 5-5 or even slight advantage Sub on 2 stages.@Tweedy How does Superman fare vs Sub? I always had it as even, but I know alot of people have Superman with an advantage.
Based off the fact that this entire thread isn't based off anything yet you ask me to elaborate? I'll elaborate .Based off what?
Hmmmm ok. I agree that Sub is downplayed but I feel like top 5 is a stretch. Still struggles in too many MU's to be up there with the top tier.If they have Superman winning, they're on some type of drug or have not played it at high level. Buffalo downplays so hard and still says it's 5-5 or even slight advantage Sub on 2 stages.
Just play it with Superman vs one of those two. You can't do anything post breath, the zoning risk/reward is always bad, Superman has to hold a lot in the corner unless he gets some type of maniac air dash off, that can be read. He can't anti air Sub at all unless he jumps with him.Hmmmm ok. I agree that Sub is downplayed but I feel like top 5 is a stretch. Still struggles in too many MU's to be up there with the top tier.
Top 10 for sure though.
Having great mids is a big deal and Adam does get murdered on knockdown. However, the strengths Adam does have are more valuable than a Superman or Supergirl type of mid string.Supergirl
Superman
Flash
Robin
Catwomen
Fate
Redhood
Adam
My top8.
Also I love how having great mids is a big deal yet no one talks abour how Adam doesn’t really have great or advancing mids like SM.
This forum is very biased, only I heard is how broken Adam is yet don’t see anyone talking about his weaknesses.
Why he’s still top tier, just not OP & doesn’t need nerfs.Having great mids is a big deal and Adam does get murdered on knockdown. However, the strengths Adam does have are more valuable than a Superman or Supergirl type of mid string.
Think of pre-patch Batman vortex. Solid just not game breaking.I need to play buffalo because I don’t see the hype.
I’m not trying to get Black Adamn murdered, he’s fine as is assuming the other top tier won’t be changedWhy he’s still top tier, just not OP & doesn’t need nerfs.