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Discussion Tiers and Their Effect on Game Balance

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
You realize I'm the guy who posted those ex puddle armor breaking setups, right? I know what I'm talking about, and I know what I've done. Don't dismiss what I say out of hand, please.

Try f34, d1, f34, 212~db1 in the corner, making sure to hit 212 as high as possible, then break with s1. The best I've broken is 15 frames, traded with 14. I can consistently break 17, and it works in all variations. If you use ex puddle like this, Lao's spin gets broke really easily with s1. So on slower armors, you can use slower moves like 212, f11, f44, etc and still break for ridiculous damage.
also, i have to ask, how does using ex puddle make breaking lao's armor possible? does it have faster recovery or what?
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
also, i have to ask, how does using ex puddle make breaking lao's armor possible? does it have faster recovery or what?
The base version in Venomous and Broodmother has significantly faster recovery, yes. It's also probably the most plus thing in the game at +47.

In Swarm Queen, the recovery on Ex is increased.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Wait, wait, wait...

I saw someone say that the game was full of "safe, armored launchers."

How many characters ACTUALLY have that?

Tremor?? Goro?? Who else?

If a launcher is +(like mb rune or Hellsparks), it usually doesn't have armor.

If a launcher has armor, it really isn't +.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
This comments section got interesting. Umm...armored launchers...safe ones...idk I'd have to check that out...
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
You realize I'm the guy who posted those ex puddle armor breaking setups, right? I know what I'm talking about, and I know what I've done. Don't dismiss what I say out of hand, please.

Try f34, d1, f34, 212~db1 in the corner, making sure to hit 212 as high as possible, then break with s1. The best I've broken is 15 frames, traded with 14. I can consistently break 17, and it works in all variations. If you use ex puddle like this, Lao's spin gets broke really easily with s1. So on slower armors, you can use slower moves like 212, f11, f44, etc and still break for ridiculous damage.
I'll try it out. I tested it with the usual setup 212swarm,njp,b3,212swarm and I couldn't get it even though I hit it on max height. Maybe it's because of predators wonky hitbox during scamitiar. What armor move have you tried it against?
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I'll try it out. I tested it with the usual setup 212swarm,njp,b3,212swarm and I couldn't get it even though I hit it on max height. Maybe it's because of predators wonky hitbox during scamitiar. What armor move have you tried it against?
Stuffed all of War God's armor, Sub's Frost blast, Liu's Dragon Roar.

Now that I think of it though, I'm not sure if I originally used SQ's standard setup when I first went to test it. It could be that the gravity is too high from that combo and they don't stay in the air long enough.

Back to the lab. Gotta figure out the details.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Stuffed all of War God's armor, Sub's Frost blast, Liu's Dragon Roar.

Now that I think of it though, I'm not sure if I originally used SQ's standard setup when I first went to test it. It could be that the gravity is too high from that combo and they don't stay in the air long enough.

Back to the lab. Gotta figure out the details.
in that case I got to apologize. I mained SQ for about 11 months and I thought I know everything about this character but it seems like I don't lol. to be fair it never happened in one of my matches though.

actually I couldn't care less if SQ gets nerfed as long as her other two variations don't suffer from universal nerfs. BM is quite decent imo and it should stay like that
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
in that case I got to apologize. I mained SQ for about 11 months and I thought I know everything about this character but it seems like I don't lol. to be fair it never happened in one of my matches though.

actually I couldn't care less if SQ gets nerfed as long as her other two variations don't suffer from universal nerfs. BM is quite decent imo and it should stay like that
Brood Mother has some of the grossest set play i have seen. In the corner she looks terrifying and i do NOT want to mess with that. I also hope the other two variations don't get hit because WATCHING Brood Mother is just fascinating to me.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
in that case I got to apologize. I mained SQ for about 11 months and I thought I know everything about this character but it seems like I don't lol. to be fair it never happened in one of my matches though.

actually I couldn't care less if SQ gets nerfed as long as her other two variations don't suffer from universal nerfs. BM is quite decent imo and it should stay like that
See, I never mained SQ. I'm a Venomous main, and I totally forgot the standard combo when I went to test it out. I haven't played for a long time and forgot to b3. I did f22 wgc 212~db1, njp, 212~db1, which seems to break slow armors pretty well.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Brood Mother has some of the grossest set play i have seen. In the corner she looks terrifying and i do NOT want to mess with that. I also hope the other two variations don't get hit because WATCHING Brood Mother is just fascinating to me.
yeah I really love playing this variation. though I don't know any good player with her except zwei.

See, I never mained SQ. I'm a Venomous main, and I totally forgot the standard combo when I went to test it out. I haven't played for a long time and forgot to b3. I did f22 wgc 212~db1, njp, 212~db1, which seems to break slow armors pretty well.
ah okay. maybe it's worth leaving out b3 when you read the wakeup.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
yeah I really love playing this variation. though I don't know any good player with her except zwei.


ah okay. maybe it's worth leaving out b3 when you read the wakeup.
Yeah, if they either have safe armor or 50/50 armor. If it's unsafe, I figure baiting when the wakeup comes out is a better option.

Also, it's hard as hell, but you can break 11 frame armors from this setup. Or at least Sonya's 11 frame leg grab. I think it might have some travel frames, because it was easier to break than her arc kick.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Yeah, if they either have safe armor or 50/50 armor. If it's unsafe, I figure baiting when the wakeup comes out is a better option.

Also, it's hard as hell, but you can break 11 frame armors from this setup. Or at least Sonya's 11 frame leg grab. I think it might have some travel frames, because it was easier to break than her arc kick.
I rather use the usual setup then :p even though I don't use SQ anymore at all
 

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
I'm a dvorah main. But I do think it's not the puddle that makes her good. She's not bad at anything besides wakeup. She's got the footsies that are fast. Mind games and pressure. And damage and corner carry.

The puddle can just be jumped out of in the middle of pressure if that's what your talking about. How ever she does have some dirty set ups in the corner with it.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
I'm a dvorah main. But I do think it's not the puddle that makes her good. She's not bad at anything besides wakeup. She's got the footsies that are fast. Mind games and pressure. And damage and corner carry.

The puddle can just be jumped out of in the middle of pressure if that's what your talking about. How ever she does have some dirty set ups in the corner with it.
The corner setups is what I'm refering to. I am ALL for dirt in the corner but her dirt in the corner is meterless. Like, 100% free and is some of the grossest stuff in this game.
 

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
The corner setups is what I'm refering to. I am ALL for dirt in the corner but her dirt in the corner is meterless. Like, 100% free and is some of the grossest stuff in this game.
I can agree on that then I guess. It would make her have something to use meter on if she had to meter burn it for the set ups
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
I can agree on that then I guess. It would make her have something to use meter on if she had to meter burn it for the set ups
Which in turn would accentuate her weakness of bad defensive options because not only his her armor not the best she wouldn't have it as often AND not have breaker as often and this would be done without killing the character, AKA, good balance. When you go to nerf a character you want to accentuate weaknesses while keeping some of their general strength.