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This Is A Hunt I've Longed For: Cheetah General Discussion

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
Seems like the best thing to do on Aquaman if he has trait is d2 or tick throws.
Both unsafe. I need to lab it. 11 is +4? on block I think. Need to find what 11 (and other strings) is on hit with trait. +4 is enough to throw. 12(throw) would work. Just want to optimize it.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Both unsafe. I need to lab it. 11 is +4? on block I think. Need to find what 11 (and other strings) is on hit with trait. +4 is enough to throw. 12(throw) would work. Just want to optimize it.
I'm talking about punishes. Yeah 12(throw) is a good option but not much of a punish. Trait just lets him block so the frame data should be the same as on block frame data.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Both unsafe. I need to lab it. 11 is +4? on block I think. Need to find what 11 (and other strings) is on hit with trait. +4 is enough to throw. 12(throw) would work. Just want to optimize it.
It's +12 or 13 on hit. Great stagger string.
 

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
I know Cheetah has some glaring issues vs many characters, but I did manage to make a Black Adam ragequit yesterday.

Felt good lol.
 

Osty

Noob
Just some tech I thought I would share. It is possible to d3 under deadshots low rifle shot. I haven't tested if you can block the repeated shots if he meterburns. Just thought this was pretty neat as it works against a lot of projectiles like fates orb etc.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Who do people think Cheetah beats in the current version of the game so far?


Thoughts on Cheetah match ups so far:

Blue Beetle- People can talk about her being able to go under shield bash on wake up
all they want, but that option if blocked is punishable and he can also delay to beat it. He can run away from her for free because of his air mobility to the point that lunges can help, but they don't truly get him unless the Blue Beetle player is playing sloppy.

His diagonal air projectile blows up most of that nonsense and kills any hope of her turtling under projectiles. She has no answer whatsoever for shield bash on block, she literally just holds the chip and if I back dash, she cannot even catch me with forward 3 after, it totally whiffs. Command grabs whiff and down 3 only connects if BB doesn't back dash and there's limited incentive to stop him from jumping away, back dashing or doing another on block shield bash. This brings up the additional problem of: he outranges her in footsies and has better sustainable offense than her.

He can even mix safer than she can lol. You shouldn't be reliably opened up by Forward 3 and sweep does no damage in the grand scheme of things.

The only place she actually has something to work with is if she can put him on his back, but that's a tall order given all of his advantages. Even with a huge life deficit, it's not hard for Beetle to come back on her whereas this is not the case for him.

I'm not saying it's terrible, it could wind up being 5-5, but I don't currently see it.

Cyborg: similar to the above where he has zoning that doesn't care about lunge and he can run away with grapples and she has a hard enough time chasing down people WITHOUT the mobility of Cyborg and Blue Beetle.

Scarecrow: Annoying, but fun and pretty even I'd say. Even with the wake up buff, she can still give Scarecrow the business on knockdown and he can't truly keep her out, he just stops her from playing yolo and careless versus him. Scarecrow has gaps everywhere and she has one of the best Forward 3's in the game so it's a no brainer to abuse versus his swiss cheese gaps because even if he doesn't complete the string it's your turn and you hinder him greatly.

I understand her weakness is neutral and Scarecrow's is great BUT if she can get around it, she can make him hurt and unlike the above characters, his escape mobility isn't particularly great.

The key to this match up is: you either get him to the corner and maul him or you get outfootsied and you don't. I see a lot of Scarecrow players salty about this match up, but I also see Cheetah players not liking it lol.

A strong footsie based Cheetah can hang with Scarecrow, it's a match up that requires a huge play style change from how she is normally played.

I've run a lot of sets with @Chongo and it's a pretty even split most sets of me winning a set and him winning the set as well.

Swamp Thing: Very fun match up, I don't even care that he outranges her because she can get in fairly quickly and if she gets a lifelead on him, it can be very hard for him to get in on her since she moves around the screen so much more smoothly and quickly than he can. She pressures him good too because of his slower speed. He does happen to beat her range wise, but a lot of his options on whiff allow her to get in to start her shenanigans. This might be a winning match up for her, but we shall see.

Atrocitus: He just has zero problem activating trait versus her in many instances and locking her down with pressure. He also out footsies her and his back dash makes it hard for her to get a lot of her game started. Very doable, but she's gonna be working harder than Atrocitus.
 
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kcd117

Noob
Who do people think Cheetah beats in the current version of the game so far?


Thoughts on Cheetah match ups so far:

Blue Beetle- People can talk about her being able to go under shield bash on wake up
all they want, but that option if blocked is punishable and he can also delay to beat it. He can run away from her for free because of his air mobility to the point that lunges can help, but they don't truly get him unless the Blue Beetle player is playing sloppy.

His diagonal air projectile blows up most of that nonsense and kills any hope of her turtling under projectiles. She has no answer whatsoever for shield bash on block, she literally just holds the chip and if I back dash, she cannot even catch me with forward 3 after, it totally whiffs. Command grabs whiff and down 3 only connects if BB doesn't back dash and there's limited incentive to stop him from jumping away, back dashing or doing another on block shield bash. This brings up the additional problem of: he outranges her in footsies and has better sustainable offense than her.

He can even mix safer than she can lol. You shouldn't be reliably opened up by Forward 3 and sweep does no damage in the grand scheme of things.

The only place she actually has something to work with is if she can put him on his back, but that's a tall order given all of his advantages. Even with a huge life deficit, it's not hard for Beetle to come back on her whereas this is not the case for him.

I'm not saying it's terrible, it could wind up being 5-5, but I don't currently see it.

Cyborg: similar to the above where he has zoning that doesn't care about lunge and he can run away with grapples and she has a hard enough time chasing down people WITHOUT the mobility of Cyborg and Blue Beetle.

Scarecrow: Annoying, but fun and pretty even I'd say. Even with the wake up buff, she can still give Scarecrow the business on knockdown and he can't truly keep her out, he just stops her from playing yolo and careless versus him. Scarecrow has gaps everywhere and she has one of the best Forward 3's in the game so it's a no brainer to abuse versus his swiss cheese gaps because even if he doesn't complete the string it's your turn and you hinder him greatly.

I understand her weakness is neutral and Scarecrow's is great BUT if she can get around it, she can make him hurt and unlike the above characters, his escape mobility isn't particularly great.

The key to this match up is: you either get him to the corner and maul him or you get outfootsied and you don't. I see a lot of Scarecrow players salty about this match up, but I also see Cheetah players not liking it lol.

A strong footsie based Cheetah can hang with Scarecrow, it's a match up that requires a huge play style change from how she is normally played.

I've run a lot of sets with @Chongo and it's a pretty even split most sets of me winning a set and him winning the set as well.

Swamp Thing: Very fun match up, I don't even care that he outranges her because she can get in fairly quickly and if she gets a lifelead on him, it can be very hard for him to get in on her since she moves around the screen so much more smoothly and quickly than he can. She pressures him good too because of his slower speed. He does happen to beat her range wise, but a lot of his options on whiff allow her to get in to start her shenanigans. This might be a winning match up for her, but we shall see.

Atrocitus: He just has zero problem activating trait versus her in many instances and locking her down with pressure. He also out footsies her and his back dash makes it hard for her to get a lot of her game started. Very doable, but she's gonna be working harder than Atrocitus.
Top tier wise I think she beats black adam and darkseid, she seems to do good against deadshot as well but I don't think I played that matchup enough, I play a good Ivy on a regular basis and it also seems in cheetah's favor.
I agree w all the matchups you posted, except bb, haven't played a good beetle yet.
I've been playing a couple brainiacs lately and it looks like he can give her some trouble, d2 is so inconsistent against his air game, jump 2 is her best option but an early dive kick blows it up, she cant punish that tendril thing if spaced correctly as well, and he can abuse his trait in that matchup with gimmicky offense like b12 trait jump back, if you dash foward he can dive kick you on reaction, if you sit and block he leaps on top of you and has another chance to mix you. she can give him trouble on knockdown but he controls the ground and air.
Firestorm is another character that gives cheetah a hard time, he can keep her in check all the times and when you get in he can torpedo out again, I don't think it's a very bad matchup, but she has to work way harder to get something going while he can check you with puddle and if it hits 40% of your health is gone.
Green arrow can be a pain once he has the life lead, he also limits her oki a lot, he has an answer for every option cheetah has. When you play a GA that knows the matchup you can't use the same setup twice basically. If cheetah has the life lead she can give him some trouble too, so I'd say it's even.
Robin is a matchup I don't like, I need to learn how to play it better. Basically he does everything people complain aqua does to cheetah, but he does it way better, but he also has good options on knockdown, and a safe way to mix cheetah on oki, I think she loses this one but I need to play it more.
 

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
Bad matchups imo

Batman
Harley
Super Girl
Darkseid
Deadshot

Right now these characters make me say "ah shit!" at character select.
 

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
What's everyone's thoughts on 2 bar combos without trait active? MB f3 is a wakeup killer so should you not mb command throw for extension to save bar for safe oki? Of course it depends on how many bars, will it kill?, side switch, life lead etc but just in general...
 

Blakexton

Shinnuk
Seems like the best thing to do on Aquaman if he has trait is d2 or tick throws.
Can I just add how fantastic her stance throw can be against aquaman. Especially is you have trait on. If he traits your combo and you manage to get the stance throw (bf3, MB) his trait is done and you've done a hefty bit of damage. With trait its over 210 damage easy (am out dont have exact numbers). For the sake of 1 bar of course.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Can I just add how fantastic her stance throw can be against aquaman. Especially is you have trait on. If he traits your combo and you manage to get the stance throw (bf3, MB) his trait is done and you've done a hefty bit of damage. With trait its over 210 damage easy (am out dont have exact numbers). For the sake of 1 bar of course.
Oh yeah, it's really good on anyone really. Traited Lunge grab does massive damage. I think it's closer to 25-30% on Aquaman. It's great as an unclashable round closer too.
 
Cheetah has some major issues. Feel I only win because trait can do stupid damage with minimal meter.

Not to say she's terrible, but perhaps outclassed. She doesn't fit well with the current "meta"
 

Osty

Noob
Does anyone feel like Cheetah needs help ?

And does anyone have tips on fighting against Robin ?
In my opinion I think cheetah struggles against a lot of the cast. She doesn't really have any strings that seem to lead to a lot of damage. Could be just me being a scrub/noob. Only time I land damage sometimes if they are blocking low for instance is 2, db1mb as an example. I can't tell you though how many times I face people that just seem to spam d1 pokes. Which always seems to stop me. Only guaranteed damage is when I catch them with an armored f3 and get my damage out that way. I think her range is terrible. The one thing that has range is a hard knockdown. And landing something off that isn't always easy. Getting someone in the corner though usually leads to some pretty wild mixups. I would honestly like to hear other people's opinions as I am trying to improve. I just feel like some of the other characters I have played very little of have a lot more tools to deal with things. I think cheetah lacks in a lot of ways. Unless you somehow land a lot of lunge, ji3, combos. But playing anyone good. That just doesn't happen for me.
 

kcd117

Noob
Does anyone feel like Cheetah needs help ?

And does anyone have tips on fighting against Robin ?
I think she is perfectly fine, the only help she deserves, like most of the cast, is a few balance changes on the likes of batman/supes/atrocitus. She is an amazing character and does really good against everyone except a few characters that honestly just have too much to stay like that.
About the robin matchup, that one is a bit hard, you wanna stay out of the footsie range unless you have a bar, otherwise he is just gonna bully you with b2, f2 and sweep, if you have meter you can make him respect your mbf3, you can build safely meter cancelling lunges from fullscreen, in the neutral jump back dive is your friend everytime you see robin whiffing something. you also can't leap too much, his anti airs are really good and can lead to huge dmg, if see robin going for his projectile too often you can antecipate and leap for a punish, just be careful with it. If he knocks you down and setup a batarang the best way to avoid getting tagged by something and loosing a ton of health is to delay wakeup, if you realize he mistimed it you can try to wakeup grab, or primal rage but they usually block expecting you to wakeup when you see a setup so wakeup grab can disrupt their setup. when you knock robin down the best way to avoid wakeups is going for ambiguous crossups, but mbf3 is always a reliable option, he is gonna wakeup a lot, and you need to armor through it to make him respect and stop, you can also use the restand in the corner if you don't wanna deal with that. When you have a comfortable lifelead you can stay back and let him come at you, when he is on the offense you have more opportunities to blow up his slow normals with your mbf3 and get huge dmg out of it.
Robin is looking like a bad matchup for us so far, I'm still trying to find something to make the neutral a little bit easier and her oki more threatening but for now it seems like the wayne family is designed to give cheetah a very hard time.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Who do people think Cheetah beats in the current version of the game so far?


Thoughts on Cheetah match ups so far:

Blue Beetle- People can talk about her being able to go under shield bash on wake up
all they want, but that option if blocked is punishable and he can also delay to beat it. He can run away from her for free because of his air mobility to the point that lunges can help, but they don't truly get him unless the Blue Beetle player is playing sloppy.

His diagonal air projectile blows up most of that nonsense and kills any hope of her turtling under projectiles. She has no answer whatsoever for shield bash on block, she literally just holds the chip and if I back dash, she cannot even catch me with forward 3 after, it totally whiffs. Command grabs whiff and down 3 only connects if BB doesn't back dash and there's limited incentive to stop him from jumping away, back dashing or doing another on block shield bash. This brings up the additional problem of: he outranges her in footsies and has better sustainable offense than her.

He can even mix safer than she can lol. You shouldn't be reliably opened up by Forward 3 and sweep does no damage in the grand scheme of things.

The only place she actually has something to work with is if she can put him on his back, but that's a tall order given all of his advantages. Even with a huge life deficit, it's not hard for Beetle to come back on her whereas this is not the case for him.

I'm not saying it's terrible, it could wind up being 5-5, but I don't currently see it.

Cyborg: similar to the above where he has zoning that doesn't care about lunge and he can run away with grapples and she has a hard enough time chasing down people WITHOUT the mobility of Cyborg and Blue Beetle.

Scarecrow: Annoying, but fun and pretty even I'd say. Even with the wake up buff, she can still give Scarecrow the business on knockdown and he can't truly keep her out, he just stops her from playing yolo and careless versus him. Scarecrow has gaps everywhere and she has one of the best Forward 3's in the game so it's a no brainer to abuse versus his swiss cheese gaps because even if he doesn't complete the string it's your turn and you hinder him greatly.

I understand her weakness is neutral and Scarecrow's is great BUT if she can get around it, she can make him hurt and unlike the above characters, his escape mobility isn't particularly great.

The key to this match up is: you either get him to the corner and maul him or you get outfootsied and you don't. I see a lot of Scarecrow players salty about this match up, but I also see Cheetah players not liking it lol.

A strong footsie based Cheetah can hang with Scarecrow, it's a match up that requires a huge play style change from how she is normally played.

I've run a lot of sets with @Chongo and it's a pretty even split most sets of me winning a set and him winning the set as well.

Swamp Thing: Very fun match up, I don't even care that he outranges her because she can get in fairly quickly and if she gets a lifelead on him, it can be very hard for him to get in on her since she moves around the screen so much more smoothly and quickly than he can. She pressures him good too because of his slower speed. He does happen to beat her range wise, but a lot of his options on whiff allow her to get in to start her shenanigans. This might be a winning match up for her, but we shall see.

Atrocitus: He just has zero problem activating trait versus her in many instances and locking her down with pressure. He also out footsies her and his back dash makes it hard for her to get a lot of her game started. Very doable, but she's gonna be working harder than Atrocitus.
Cheetah loses to swamp thing. She is grounded for the match-up and he has half screen normals. Once you finally get it, you aren't; he has an excellent number of wake-up options.

She loses to Darkseid because his high laser tracks her in lunge. Remove that and she probably wins the match-up.

I wouldn't even mention the match-ups for Aqua,Bat,Supes,BA,Dead shot,Atroc. As they do to her what they do to the rest of the cast anyway.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Cheetah loses to swamp thing. She is grounded for the match-up and he has half screen normals. Once you finally get it, you aren't; he has an excellent number of wake-up options.

She loses to Darkseid because his high laser tracks her in lunge. Remove that and she probably wins the match-up.

I wouldn't even mention the match-ups for Aqua,Bat,Supes,BA,Dead shot,Atroc. As they do to her what they do to the rest of the cast anyway.
I don't agree, my data and experience doesn't support that. She can stuff some of his stuff with forward 2,3 and forward 3 still beats his tree wake up too. He is also slow and easy to keep a lifelead on. Even if it was true that you are "grounded for the match up" I'm not sure what he is doing to keep you out lol.

Not to mention that you aren't anyway, you just have to actually play neutral and not jump around carelessly. If you're mixing up your approach you can go airborne from time to time. He cannot cover every angle. He has to make a read or commit to anti-air with grab. Lunge cancels and less ranged pounces among dash ins and walking/ducking do the job just fine.

Well that's actually untrue for a variety of reasons. Blue Beetle for example doesn't have to put up with Atrocitus even remotely the same way. That's just one example and I'm sure there are others.

I don't know what Darkseid has to do with my post among others.
 

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
I think one launching string would help a lot. Haha had a dude send me a message saying I don't know any combos without divekick and f3 haha. I d2'd him a couple times but he didn't notice I guess. If you get that big jump in and it hits... you don't get much off it without bounce cancel. She has to work a lot harder than most.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
I think one launching string would help a lot. Haha had a dude send me a message saying I don't know any combos without divekick and f3 haha. I d2'd him a couple times but he didn't notice I guess. If you get that big jump in and it hits... you don't get much off it without bounce cancel. She has to work a lot harder than most.
For jump ins don't bother with jp1 as much, just jump 3.

You get bigger trades on anti air attempts and it launches for big damage.

Jp1 still has uses for air-2-airs and cross-ups but jp3 should be your go to.

TL;DR jp3 is our launcher
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
I don't agree, my data and experience doesn't support that. She can stuff some of his stuff with forward 2,3 and forward 3 still beats his tree wake up too. He is also slow and easy to keep a lifelead on. Even if it was true that you are "grounded for the match up" I'm not sure what he is doing to keep you out lol.

Not to mention that you aren't anyway, you just have to actually play neutral and not jump around carelessly. If you're mixing up your approach you can go airborne from time to time. He cannot cover every angle. He has to make a read or commit to anti-air with grab. Lunge cancels and less ranged pounces among dash ins and walking/ducking do the job just fine.

Well that's actually untrue for a variety of reasons. Blue Beetle for example doesn't have to put up with Atrocitus even remotely the same way. That's just one example and I'm sure there are others.

I don't know what Darkseid has to do with my post among others.
Most of this stuff is wrong.

I mentioned Darkseid because I thought you discussed the match-up and I wanted to mention what I thought made the match-up harder than it should be. I looked again and you didn't lol. My bad.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Most of this stuff is wrong.

I mentioned Darkseid because I thought you discussed the match-up and I wanted to mention what I thought made the match-up harder than it should be. I looked again and you didn't lol. My bad.
If you're not interested in having an actual fruitful discussion or explaining why I'm "wrong" even though there's actual footage of me stuffing his wake ups with forward 2,3 among other examples then just don't bother quoting me.

I don't need people to agree with me, but if you're not talking to inform or help someone level up then you're just talking to argue and I don't have time for that. I know what's up. Everything I state I test in real matches, I don't just theory fight.
 

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
For jump ins don't bother with jp1 as much, just jump 3.

You get bigger trades on anti air attempts and it launches for big damage.

Jp1 still has uses for air-2-airs and cross-ups but jp3 should be your go to.

TL;DR jp3 is our launcher
I mainly mean crossups. If you jump a projectile or jump and see them whiff you mb divekick so thats ok. I j3 during most command jumps. BA gets over 200 on her for a mb low tracking projectile. I get 200 for navigating his bullshit and opening him up with something faster than 25-30ish frames. If she has a bnb starting string I'll shut up until I have something else to complain about haha.