This Is A Hunt I've Longed For: Cheetah General Discussion

[kcd117]

Cheetah loses to swamp thing. She is grounded for the match-up and he has half screen normals. Once you finally get it, you aren't; he has an excellent number of wake-up options.

She loses to Darkseid because his high laser tracks her in lunge. Remove that and she probably wins the match-up.

I wouldn't even mention the match-ups for Aqua,Bat,Supes,BA,Dead shot,Atroc. As they do to her what they do to the rest of the cast anyway.

She's not really grounded for the match, as long as you are not being too predictable with lunges and jump ins, and his wakeups are more of an annoyance than a solid way to escape cheetah's oki. Get a life lead, make swampy chase you, punish his mistakes, his movement is awful and her's is amazing if you know how to use it. Not a losing matchup from my experience.
Completely disagree on darkseid, I know she cant lunge his lasers but it doesn't make she lose the matchup, if you are patient anough to get through his lasers you can punish almost every option he has in the footsie range on block if he doesn't have trait active and d3 can low profile almost all of his safe options. Teleport can be punished on reaction and he is very free on knockdown.
Aqua is not a bad matchup from my experience, getting outfootsied by aqua in the neutral is no reason to label it a 7/3 or a 6/4, otherwise Aqua would 7/3 90% of the cast.
Never had any trouble with Black Adam, I honestly think cheetah beats him, sure his dmg output is unreal but he doesn't have an answer to cheetah low profiling his strings with d3 nor to her oki, he doesn't control the neutral game like other characters and has shitty defensive options.
I also don't buy that cheetah loses to deadshot, she doesn't have a lot of trouble getting in and once she is in is hard for him to get out, but I need play that matchup some more times before I'm able to come up with a conclusion.
Atrocitus feels harder than most, but if you are able to keep the pressure on him and make him waste most of his trait she can give him a hard time as well. Dex star is ridiculous tho, hella dumb free offense in one button press.
Batman and Superman I agree, as hard as it is for me to say it I feel like they shit on cheetah, they beat her in every aspect a character can possibly beat another, is not even fun.

 

[JesterSMX]

She's not really grounded for the match, as long as you are not being too predictable with lunges and jump ins, and his wakeups are more of an annoyance than a solid way to escape cheetah's oki. Get a life lead, make swampy chase you, punish his mistakes, his movement is awful and her's is amazing if you know how to use it. Not a losing matchup from my experience.
Completely disagree on darkseid, I know she cant lunge his lasers but it doesn't make she lose the matchup, if you are patient anough to get through his lasers you can punish almost every option he has in the footsie range on block if he doesn't have trait active and d3 can low profile almost all of his safe options. Teleport can be punished on reaction and he is very free on knockdown.
Aqua is not a bad matchup from my experience, getting outfootsied by aqua in the neutral is no reason to label it a 7/3 or a 6/4, otherwise Aqua would 7/3 90% of the cast.
Never had any trouble with Black Adam, I honestly think cheetah beats him, sure his dmg output is unreal but he doesn't have an answer to cheetah low profiling his strings with d3 nor to her oki, he doesn't control the neutral game like other characters and has shitty defensive options.
I also don't buy that cheetah loses to deadshot, she doesn't have a lot of trouble getting in and once she is in is hard for him to get out, but I need play that matchup some more times before I'm able to come up with a conclusion.
Atrocitus feels harder than most, but if you are able to keep the pressure on him and make him waste most of his trait she can give him a hard time as well. Dex star is ridiculous tho, hella dumb free offense in one button press.
Batman and Superman I agree, as hard as it is for me to say it I feel like they shit on cheetah, they beat her in every aspect a character can possibly beat another, is not even fun.

How do you approach deadshot?

 

[Zionix]

If you're not interested in having an actual fruitful discussion or explaining why I'm "wrong" even though there's actual footage of me stuffing his wake ups with forward 2,3 among other examples then just don't bother quoting me.

I don't need people to agree with me, but if you're not talking to inform or help someone level up then you're just talking to argue and I don't have time for that. I know what's up. Everything I state I test in real matches, I don't just theory fight.

I had to go somewhere so couldn't write out a full fledged response.

We don't need people spreading mis-information on the forums, they need legitimate advice that can be proven in the lab. Otherwise they will enter situations with the wrong tools/tactics and get blown up.

For instance, after DBF1 our main oki ender, You cannot do F23 even with a dash up. You can only do F3 and beat his wake-up by delaying it slightly. If you delay it he can just wake up with standing 1 and beat it out or backdash because F3 isn't quick enough to catch it. If you do it instantly he can probably delay wake-up but I didn't test that because you aren't doing it instantly, if you do, you're going to get hit by his launching wake-up and eat 350 damage. If you delay F3 MB too long at all or dash up then do it his low log wake-up is 2 hits and blows through it.

So our best way to oki him is to spend 1-bar and the moment he knows this he can just block overhead and it pushes him outside of range to make plus 10 really meaningful. We can't even D3 check him to get a low cmd or D3 mix-up.

After sweep at max range you have to dash to get anything meaningful and he can just wake-up throw, backdash or buttons. Sweep at close range same issue. He can just wake-up grab to beat F23 and if you try to anything else and he does the launching wake-up its rip.

To top this all off his launching wake-up when mb is plus, so we can't even bait and punish.

The neutral is hard and when he gets you in the corner its mix city and our wake-up does nothing because he can step back out of its range and F2 or S1 anti air depending on how you choose to get out. (far lunge out is usually best).

 

[JesterSMX]

She's not really grounded for the match, as long as you are not being too predictable with lunges and jump ins, and his wakeups are more of an annoyance than a solid way to escape cheetah's oki. Get a life lead, make swampy chase you, punish his mistakes, his movement is awful and her's is amazing if you know how to use it. Not a losing matchup from my experience.
Completely disagree on darkseid, I know she cant lunge his lasers but it doesn't make she lose the matchup, if you are patient anough to get through his lasers you can punish almost every option he has in the footsie range on block if he doesn't have trait active and d3 can low profile almost all of his safe options. Teleport can be punished on reaction and he is very free on knockdown.
Aqua is not a bad matchup from my experience, getting outfootsied by aqua in the neutral is no reason to label it a 7/3 or a 6/4, otherwise Aqua would 7/3 90% of the cast.
Never had any trouble with Black Adam, I honestly think cheetah beats him, sure his dmg output is unreal but he doesn't have an answer to cheetah low profiling his strings with d3 nor to her oki, he doesn't control the neutral game like other characters and has shitty defensive options.
I also don't buy that cheetah loses to deadshot, she doesn't have a lot of trouble getting in and once she is in is hard for him to get out, but I need play that matchup some more times before I'm able to come up with a conclusion.
Atrocitus feels harder than most, but if you are able to keep the pressure on him and make him waste most of his trait she can give him a hard time as well. Dex star is ridiculous tho, hella dumb free offense in one button press.
Batman and Superman I agree, as hard as it is for me to say it I feel like they shit on cheetah, they beat her in every aspect a character can possibly beat another, is not even fun.

And for some weird reason I'm not afraid of atrocitus. Without dex I feel in control. With dex I do my best. They wakeup like the ring requires it and I blow it up 9/10 times whether I jump over, duck, or mb f3. I'll initiate clash regardless of how much I'll lose just to get rid of dex. If you don't clash that damage is gone anyways and dex is still out. Pushblock is also underused and you don't have to take the mixup and it cuts the duration of trait.

 

[kcd117]

How do you approach deadshot?

Walk in and duck his projectile, you can also lunge everytime he does the machine gun or the ground shot, it's also possible to time it in between shots, but that's not very consistent and he can punish if he reads it. When you get closer you should aim to stay just outside his b1 range to punish it on whiff with d3, thats also a good range for a jump in, so he has to guess what you are gonna do next since he has no options that can cover both the air and the space in front of him, he is actually pretty free to jump ins. once you are in it's all about getting that knockdown and capitalizing.

 

[Espio]

I had to go somewhere so couldn't write out a full fledged response.

We don't need people spreading mis-information on the forums, they need legitimate advice that can be proven in the lab. Otherwise they will enter situations with the wrong tools/tactics and get blown up.

For instance, after DBF1 our main oki ender, You cannot do F23 even with a dash up. You can only do F3 and beat his wake-up by delaying it slightly. If you delay it he can just wake up with standing 1 and beat it out or backdash because F3 isn't quick enough to catch it. If you do it instantly he can probably delay wake-up but I didn't test that because you aren't doing it instantly, if you do, you're going to get hit by his launching wake-up and eat 350 damage. If you delay F3 MB too long at all or dash up then do it his low log wake-up is 2 hits and blows through it.

After sweep at max range you have to dash to get anything meaningful and he can just wake-up throw or backdash. Sweep at close range same issue. He can just wake-up grab to beat F23 and if you try to anything else and he does the launching wake-up its rip.

To top this all off his launching wake-up when mb is plus, so we can't even bait and punish.

The neutral is hard and when he gets you in the corner its mix city and our wake-up does nothing because he can step back out of its range and F2 or S1 anti air depending on how you choose to get out. (far lunge out is usually best).

I'm not promoting misinformation.....you didn't even bother asking me what I did to stuff it because in your zeal to say I'm wrong why would you bother doing that? You didn't refute anything I said so not sure where the misinformation is in my post.

Don't worry though, I'm done playing her so I won't be promoting anymore "misinformation".

 

[Zionix]

Walk in and duck his projectile, you can also lunge everytime he does the machine gun or the ground shot, it's also possible to time it in between shots, but that's not very consistent and he can punish if he reads it. When you get closer you should aim to stay just outside his b1 range to punish it on whiff with d3, thats also a good range for a jump in, so he has to guess what you are gonna do next since he has no options that can cover both the air and the space in front of him, he is actually pretty free to jump ins. once you are in it's all about getting that knockdown and capitalizing.

I gracefully await your match footage.

 

[kcd117]

And for some weird reason I'm not afraid of atrocitus. Without dex I feel in control. With dex I do my best. They wakeup like the ring requires it and I blow it up 9/10 times whether I jump over, duck, or mb f3. I'll initiate clash regardless of how much I'll lose just to get rid of dex. If you don't clash that damage is gone anyways and dex is still out. Pushblock is also underused and you don't have to take the mixup and it cuts the duration of trait.

Yeah that's how I feel about atrocitus too, pushblock everytime he goes for the mix, and sweep every time he has a gap on his offence, when dex is not out cheetah can give him a really hard time. that stupid cat is more of a defensive tool in that matchup, still dumb af tho.
Also what's the deal with atrocitus players being so wakeup happy? seems like they never get tired of getting punished for that shitty punchwalk whiffing

 

[Zionix]

I'm not promoting misinformation.....you didn't even bother asking me what I did to stuff it because in your zeal to say I'm wrong why would you bother doing that? You didn't refute anything I said so not sure where the misinformation is in my post.

Don't worry though, I'm done playing her so I won't be promoting anymore "misinformation".

Woah woah, Hang on a second you want a meaningful discussion, I provide my findings and then you back out like a toddler who had his candy stolen?

If you have options that beat him on wake-up then share away. The options you provided in your previous post are what I answered to.

You said F23 so I answered to it with our current main oki starters d3 and dbf1. If you go around telling people to do that they are going to get backdashed, whiffed punished and wonder what they did wrong.

 

[Osty]

And for some weird reason I'm not afraid of atrocitus. Without dex I feel in control. With dex I do my best. They wakeup like the ring requires it and I blow it up 9/10 times whether I jump over, duck, or mb f3. I'll initiate clash regardless of how much I'll lose just to get rid of dex. If you don't clash that damage is gone anyways and dex is still out. Pushblock is also underused and you don't have to take the mixup and it cuts the duration of trait.

In response to the push block thing. I didn't know for the longest time that you could push block several traits away like batmans bats and poison ivy' s minion if for some odd reason she was in the same vicinity as you. I have used that ability alot more now upon discovering this. If there are other applicable uses for this. I would love to know.

 

[kcd117]

I gracefully await your match footage.

I'll post it as soon as I get the experience I need to do my best at the matchup and find a good deadshot player to play with. only had arround 30 games against decent deadshots, there is still a lot of things to learn.

 

[JesterSMX]

Yeah that's how I feel about atrocitus too, pushblock everytime he goes for the mix, and sweep every time he has a gap on his offence, when dex is not out cheetah can give him a really hard time. that stupid cat is more of a defensive tool in that matchup, still dumb af tho.
Also what's the deal with atrocitus players being so wakeup happy? seems like they never get tired of getting punished for that shitty punchwalk whiffing

I don't know but I assume they will do it every time.

 

[JesterSMX]

In response to the push block thing. I didn't know for the longest time that you could push block several traits away like batmans bats and poison ivy' s minion if for some odd reason she was in the same vicinity as you. I have used that ability alot more now upon discovering this. If there are other applicable uses for this. I would love to know.

Dex gets 1/3 of his time cut when you pushblock atro. Clashes gets rid of dex regardless and I think transitions do it too (I might be wrong.)

 

[kcd117]

I had to go somewhere so couldn't write out a full fledged response.

We don't need people spreading mis-information on the forums, they need legitimate advice that can be proven in the lab. Otherwise they will enter situations with the wrong tools/tactics and get blown up.

For instance, after DBF1 our main oki ender, You cannot do F23 even with a dash up. You can only do F3 and beat his wake-up by delaying it slightly. If you delay it he can just wake up with standing 1 and beat it out or backdash because F3 isn't quick enough to catch it. If you do it instantly he can probably delay wake-up but I didn't test that because you aren't doing it instantly, if you do, you're going to get hit by his launching wake-up and eat 350 damage. If you delay F3 MB too long at all or dash up then do it his low log wake-up is 2 hits and blows through it.

So our best way to oki him is to spend 1-bar and the moment he knows this he can just block overhead and it pushes him outside of range to make plus 10 really meaningful. We can't even D3 check him to get a low cmd or D3 mix-up.

After sweep at max range you have to dash to get anything meaningful and he can just wake-up throw, backdash or buttons. Sweep at close range same issue. He can just wake-up grab to beat F23 and if you try to anything else and he does the launching wake-up its rip.

To top this all off his launching wake-up when mb is plus, so we can't even bait and punish.

The neutral is hard and when he gets you in the corner its mix city and our wake-up does nothing because he can step back out of its range and F2 or S1 anti air depending on how you choose to get out. (far lunge out is usually best).

I get what you are saying about his options, but he can't cover everything with any of them. For every answer he has to one of cheetah's oki tools, you have another option to counter it. for example, let's say you did your bnb and he is down, you think he is gonna wake up and you have no bar, just walk foward a bit to bait that wakeup and then back, he wakes up, it whiffs, you d3 him. He is down again and now he has to guess between a f3, a d3, an ambigous jump in, 2 different comand grabs, walk up regular grab, and another shimmy. He can't possibly cover all of the options you can go for, and the guessing really favors cheetah.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

I'm not promoting misinformation.....you didn't even bother asking me what I did to stuff it because in your zeal to say I'm wrong why would you bother doing that? You didn't refute anything I said so not sure where the misinformation is in my post.

Don't worry though, I'm done playing her so I won't be promoting anymore "misinformation".

Bud, don't drop Vixen just bc people are jerks! I like your match footage.

 

[Zionix]

I get what you are saying about his options, but he can't cover everything with any of them. For every answer he has to one of cheetah's oki tools, you have another option to counter it. for example, let's say you did your bnb and he is down, you think he is gonna wake up and you have no bar, just walk foward a bit to bait that wakeup and then back, he wakes up, it whiffs, you d3 him. He is down again and now he has to guess between a f3, a d3, an ambigous jump in, 2 different comand grabs, walk up regular grab, and another shimmy. He can't possibly cover all of the options you can go for, and the guessing really favors cheetah.

It is easier if I make a video.

The guessing only favours cheetah if she uses MB F3, however because she needs to commit to it so early, there is the argument that he can see it coming and just hold off on his wake-up or delay it. If he does delay then it is his turn we don't recover fast enough.

You could also argue that we could MB F3 then dash cancel high command grab, which is definitely valid but also expensive (2-bars) way of opening him up.

 

[Ns_Brutalmileena]

I enjoy your cheetah just like your goro dont leave haha espio

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I haven't really played a set against a good Swamp Thing yet but I always try to find set-ups and something I found is that using 332 on oki against him is actually very good since it completely negates his tree invincible wake-up.

As for my opinion on her match-ups..
I think she has a hard time against Batman, Harley, Deadshot, Atrocitus, Aquaman, Superman, Supergirl, Darkseid, Black Adam just off the top of my head.

Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Bane, Robin, Scarecrow, Green Lantern I am having a hard time telling if these are even or in their favor... I think these are in the even-ish side (except for Robin, I think it's definitely more on the bad side) but might end up being a bit bad for Cheetah since all those characters have a great neutral game and even some zoning options, however, they are not as overwhelming as other match-ups.

I think Poison Ivy is slightly in Ivy's favor, she can zone us well, has an easier time setting up her trait and has a great neutral game. I think the thing stopping this from being a very bad MU is just that Ivy has a bad wake-up game and her anti-airs aren't the best. However, that doesn't mean we can lunge for free since it's easy to air2air us with jump 2. (I think exactly the same for the Dr. Fate and Firestorm MU's, Firestorm does have a good wake-up tho)

I think Flash and Canary feel completely even.


I don't think Cheetah can lunge for free against anyone at all, even if you have bad anti-airs it's so reactable that you can air to air her very easily.

i can't really talk about other MU's since I haven't played against most of the other characters. I can see her doing well against Joker tho, just off the top of my head.

 

[Zionix]

I haven't really played a set against a good Swamp Thing yet but I always try to find set-ups and something I found is that using 332 on oki against him is actually very good since it completely negates his tree invincible wake-up.

As for my opinion on her match-ups..
I think she has a hard time against Batman, Harley, Deadshot, Atrocitus, Aquaman, Superman, Supergirl, Darkseid, Black Adam just off the top of my head.

Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Bane, Robin, Scarecrow, Green Lantern I am having a hard time telling if these are even or in their favor... I think these are in the even-ish side (except for Robin, I think it's definitely more on the bad side) but might end up being a bit bad for Cheetah since all those characters have a great neutral game and even some zoning options, however, they are not as overwhelming as other match-ups.

I think Poison Ivy is slightly in Ivy's favor, she can zone us well, has an easier time setting up her trait and has a great neutral game. I think the thing stopping this from being a very bad MU is just that Ivy has a bad wake-up game and her anti-airs aren't the best. However, that doesn't mean we can lunge for free since it's easy to air2air us with jump 2. (I think exactly the same for the Dr. Fate and Firestorm MU's, Firestorm does have a good wake-up tho)

I think Flash and Canary feel completely even.


I don't think Cheetah can lunge for free against anyone at all, even if you have bad anti-airs it's so reactable that you can air to air her very easily.

i can't really talk about other MU's since I haven't played against most of the other characters. I can see her doing well against Joker tho, just off the top of my head.

332 is a really good option, but sadly abit of a gimmick. Swamp can just wake-up 11 full punish it if you are trying to low profile his wake-up with it

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

332 is a really good option, but sadly abit of a gimmick. Swamp can just wake-up 11 full punish it if you are trying to low profile his wake-up with it

Do you mean wake-up and hit her out of it or punish it?

 

[Zionix]

Do you mean wake-up and hit her out of it or punish it?

No just stand up 11 will beat out the second hit of the string.

 

[Igniz13]

Do people consider cheetah a vortex character? I.e going for knockdown and controlling wakeup over damage?

 

[kcd117]

nice find about the 332, need to start using it more.
Now for the bad matchups, superman and batman are her worst by a mile, if you think about every aspect of the matchup they convincingly beat her in most, and simply shit on her on the rest. harley is a hard one since she controls the space so well, green lantern is one of the few characters that can effectively keep her out, firestorm can also zone her and get his stupid dmg out your mistakes, and robin is hard to deal with on neutral, on oki and on pressure. Another character that seems to give her trouble is brainiac, he can abuse his trait and his leap against cheetah. Ivy and Black Adam are probably my 2 most played matchups and I'm convinced she wins both tbh, they don't give her a lot of trouble in the neutral and are hella free on knockdown. Supergirl seems even, the more I play that matchup the easier it gets actually.

 

[RoboCop]

She's not really grounded for the match, as long as you are not being too predictable with lunges and jump ins, and his wakeups are more of an annoyance than a solid way to escape cheetah's oki. Get a life lead, make swampy chase you, punish his mistakes, his movement is awful and her's is amazing if you know how to use it. Not a losing matchup from my experience.
Completely disagree on darkseid, I know she cant lunge his lasers but it doesn't make she lose the matchup, if you are patient anough to get through his lasers you can punish almost every option he has in the footsie range on block if he doesn't have trait active and d3 can low profile almost all of his safe options. Teleport can be punished on reaction and he is very free on knockdown.
Aqua is not a bad matchup from my experience, getting outfootsied by aqua in the neutral is no reason to label it a 7/3 or a 6/4, otherwise Aqua would 7/3 90% of the cast.
Never had any trouble with Black Adam, I honestly think cheetah beats him, sure his dmg output is unreal but he doesn't have an answer to cheetah low profiling his strings with d3 nor to her oki, he doesn't control the neutral game like other characters and has shitty defensive options.
I also don't buy that cheetah loses to deadshot, she doesn't have a lot of trouble getting in and once she is in is hard for him to get out, but I need play that matchup some more times before I'm able to come up with a conclusion.
Atrocitus feels harder than most, but if you are able to keep the pressure on him and make him waste most of his trait she can give him a hard time as well. Dex star is ridiculous tho, hella dumb free offense in one button press.
Batman and Superman I agree, as hard as it is for me to say it I feel like they shit on cheetah, they beat her in every aspect a character can possibly beat another, is not even fun.

Dude, you make some good arguments, but maybe separate your posts into short paragraphs instead of walls of text. No one is going to read that shit.

 

[RoboCop]

I'm not promoting misinformation.....you didn't even bother asking me what I did to stuff it because in your zeal to say I'm wrong why would you bother doing that? You didn't refute anything I said so not sure where the misinformation is in my post.

Don't worry though, I'm done playing her so I won't be promoting anymore "misinformation".

Why you done playing Cheetah?