This character needs buffs

[The_Riddler]

Yes. Dive kick gets blown up by the top characters in the game. That's bad, considering its only real zoning/counter zoning tool. Ice ball is too slow and not an answer. Don't even think about teleporting, its probably the worst in the game. You're left with dash blocking to get in. His dash is great, but its still a generic tool.

I agree with what you're saying. If ice ball was even half of a viable projectile it wouldn't be so bad.

However, you can still win with Cyber-Sub as he is.

 

[Kombo]

Yes. Dive kick gets blown up by the top characters in the game. That's bad, considering its only real zoning/counter zoning tool. Ice ball is too slow and not an answer. Don't even think about teleporting, its probably the worst in the game. You're left with dash blocking to get in. His dash is great, but its still a generic tool.

Hmm... Have you ever thought that some of these things you are complaining about were done on purpose to prevent a god tier character?

 

[Kindred]

Fail. Your realize that Cyber Sub Zero is a beast? He needs no buffs. His normals are mostly safe. His strings are safe. He has high damaging combos that can easily link into Xray for more damage confirmation. Please... The only buff Cyber Sub Zero will need is a better win-pose...

This made me laugh out loud

 

[Ether]

Hmm... Have you ever thought that some of these things you are complaining about were done on purpose to prevent a god tier character?

Not asking for a god tier character. Just slightly better tools to have more evenish matchups against the chunk of the cast that really gives him a hard time.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

Ummm he has frame traps, bomb traps, good low strings, prob best dive kick in the game, insane pressure, arguably the best rushdown in the game.

AND OMG HE HAS A FRIGGN ICE SWORD HOW COOL IS THAT!!111

 

[Theme]

Don't even think about teleporting, its probably the worst in the game.

Just play him, nothings wrong with him, everyone agrees. Youre just doing something bad and wrong. Hes mid to top tier if played right. His teleport is just like Cyrax's... what the hell do you mean its 'worst in the game......'..........

 

[Ether]

Ummm he has frame traps, bomb traps, good low strings, prob best dive kick in the game, insane pressure, arguably the best rushdown in the game.

AND OMG HE HAS A FRIGGN ICE SWORD HOW COOL IS THAT!!111

- Name the frame traps and/or link me to frame data.
- the only legit bomb trap is off of u+4, which is super unsafe, not hit confirmable off of jump punch, and does not work out of a freeze. He has a psuedo bomb trap off of u+4 anti-air, since it causes an untechable knockdown, which can be combo'd into with 2,1, 1+2. Most people will probably get hit by this mixup the first time they see it, but its really not that hard to escape at all. Against characters with REALLY bad wakeup, its a free xray setup.
- the ice sword is pretty damn cool, which is why b+1 needs to be a godlike move =D

@ Theme: his teleport is NOT just like Cyrax's. For some reason CSZ' teleport has a cooldown and seems to have more vulnerable frames on startup. It's pretty bad. You can counterzone a read projectile and still end up at frame disadvantage.

 

[Helter Skelter]

So CSZ is not allowed to have any bad matchups? lol.

 

[HurlingDervish]

I feel so helpless against good CBZ's. it kinda feels like being trapped in the corner by vanilla sub, but ALL OVER THE SCREEN AT 200MPH

 

[Altaire]

It seems like the design philosophy behind CSZ is for him to have really, extraordinarily crappy specials and wakeup, but be a rushdown monster. That's fine. Keeping that in mind, I think he needs two things:

1. Better normals. Legit frame traps. Please. This character should be godlike once he gets in on you.
2. Bombs that actually freeze. If Cyrax lands a bomb, he gets a combo. CSZ should get the same benefit.

Why does KL have better everything than Cyber Subby?

Edit: Also fix airborne enemies breaking out of Ice Beam ridiculous early. You can't combo off of it ever. Wtf?

I main Cyber Subs. He was one of the first characters I picked up, and after realizing he was a better fit for me than human Subs, he became my main.

I can tell you, without a doubt, that there's not a single buff this character needs. None. Whatsoever. His specials are fine as is. His slide is fine. His parry is fine. His teleport is fine. His bombs are fine. About the ONLY change I could see this character getting is for NRS to turn on the switch they added in one of the hotfixes, which makes his bombs freeze even when your opponent isn't in vulnerable frames. It's not necessary, but it would put more emphasis on his bombs, which are generally used just to get your opponent off his spot now.

You have a character who can rack up 43% off a jump-in punch from midscreen, without any meter whatosever, and you want to tell me that Kung Lao has "everything better"? Stop blaming the character for your own inability to use him. The amount of characters who need real, hard buffs in this game are few and far in between.

 

[Altaire]

- Name the frame traps and/or link me to frame data.
- the only legit bomb trap is off of u+4, which is super unsafe, not hit confirmable off of jump punch, and does not work out of a freeze. He has a psuedo bomb trap off of u+4 anti-air, since it causes an untechable knockdown, which can be combo'd into with 2,1, 1+2. Most people will probably get hit by this mixup the first time they see it, but its really not that hard to escape at all. Against characters with REALLY bad wakeup, its a free xray setup.
- the ice sword is pretty damn cool, which is why b+1 needs to be a godlike move =D

@ Theme: his teleport is NOT just like Cyrax's. For some reason CSZ' teleport has a cooldown and seems to have more vulnerable frames on startup. It's pretty bad. You can counterzone a read projectile and still end up at frame disadvantage.

...Uh, I don't think you realize that Cyrax and Cyber Subs have unsafe teleports for a reason. It's not supposed to make you Raiden, it's just supposed to give you a way to close in and capitalize when you freeze/net an opponent from fullscreen. It's a utility, not a strategy to get in.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I don't think he needs anything really, he is an incredibly strong character.

If only his bombs froze at all times and has the same start up as cyrax's, and the same larger blast radius, then would have monster on our hands

 

[Ether]

@ Altaire

The teleport is essentially useless for the use you described. The only time you would NEED it to follow up a freeze is if you land a full screen ice ball. But who gets hit by full screen ice ball?

The teleport doesn't do anything. Ice Ball is terrible. Slide is ok, nice chunk of damage to end combos with and a situational anti air. Parry is good, but not godlike and shouldnt be. Bombs, really not that good, they really should freeze reliably.

High damage off of jump punch is fantastic and one of his best traits. Can't argue that. But at the same time, we all know that jump punch is not some free, ultra reliable setup. Most times you throw it out, you're probably gonna go for his 3 series, for the mixup, since you can't hit confirm into 2.

 

[Theme]

@ Altaire

The teleport is essentially useless for the use you described. The only time you would NEED it to follow up a freeze is if you land a full screen ice ball. But who gets hit by full screen ice ball?

The teleport doesn't do anything. Ice Ball is terrible. Slide is ok, nice chunk of damage to end combos with and a situational anti air. Parry is good, but not godlike and shouldnt be. Bombs, really not that good, they really should freeze reliably.

High damage off of jump punch is fantastic and one of his best traits. Can't argue that. But at the same time, we all know that jump punch is not some free, ultra reliable setup. Most times you throw it out, you're probably gonna go for his 3 series, for the mixup, since you can't hit confirm into 2.

His teleport is not useless. You can block instantly as you teleport... or you can parry (my cousin loves doing this) also INSTANTLY... You can also do his launcher into the air combo after teleporting.

Iceball is admittedly, not as good as some other projectiles, but it shouldn't be anyways. That would be ridiculously rigged. Slide is okay? Thats one of your best specials. Slide is great, obviously not used to its full potential if you think its just 'okay'. Parry is good, much better than Liu Kangs, I should know, I main Liu Kang... As for the bombs, NRS made them like that because that would create some insanely powerful freeze traps... And that damned dive kick is the best dive kick in the game, what are you crying about?


Im done in this topic. Your asking for buffs for Cyber Sub Zero ... lmfao. I can see it if its for Stryker or Sheeva, but CSZ?? Come on now, stop blaming the character for your weakness.

 

[Ether]

His teleport is not useless. You can block instantly as you teleport... or you can parry (my cousin loves doing this) also INSTANTLY... You can also do his launcher into the air combo after teleporting.

Iceball is admittedly, not as good as some other projectiles, but it shouldn't be anyways. That would be ridiculously rigged. Slide is okay? Thats one of your best specials. Slide is great, obviously not used to its full potential if you think its just 'okay'. Parry is good, much better than Liu Kangs, I should know, I main Liu Kang... As for the bombs, NRS made them like that because that would create some insanely powerful freeze traps... And that damned dive kick is the best dive kick in the game, what are you crying about?


Im done in this topic. Your asking for buffs for Cyber Sub Zero ... lmfao. I can see it if its for Stryker or Sheeva, but CSZ?? Come on now, stop blaming the character for your weakness.

Because suggesting that b+1 should be useful and bombs be reliable is crying?

 

[Piggy]

I love CSZ. He needs no buffs. I absolutely love the EX dive kick, it's works best with blocking opponents because it still does good damage. What else could you want with an all around great character?

I'll admit, he does need ONE buff. His teleport needs to be faster, as in Cyrax fast. You wouldn't believe how many times I get miffed by a projectile but cyrax never does. Even across screen.

Book? Did you get him unlocked yet? We need to play this weekend.

 

[Altaire]

@ Altaire

The teleport is essentially useless for the use you described. The only time you would NEED it to follow up a freeze is if you land a full screen ice ball. But who gets hit by full screen ice ball?

The teleport doesn't do anything. Ice Ball is terrible. Slide is ok, nice chunk of damage to end combos with and a situational anti air. Parry is good, but not godlike and shouldnt be. Bombs, really not that good, they really should freeze reliably.

High damage off of jump punch is fantastic and one of his best traits. Can't argue that. But at the same time, we all know that jump punch is not some free, ultra reliable setup. Most times you throw it out, you're probably gonna go for his 3 series, for the mixup, since you can't hit confirm into 2.

...Uh, what? You can EASILY combo off 2 1 pressure from the ground. It's a safe block string, and it's hit confirmable into either a freeze or 2 1 1+2. Against the majority of the roster, you can just keep pressuring with 2 1 and add on the 1+2 at the end if you see them try to get out. Even if the 1+2 is blocked, you can safely jump out or do a jump back divekick. You get a mixup here, because if they attack or block, you get a safe divekick. If you anticipate a jump, you can just uppercut them. You can also mix in 3 3 EX freeze if they aren't blocking low, and if they ARE blocking low, just throw them. No one seems to realize that you make yourself vulnerable to throws when you commit to blocking low, which is why Ermac's F4 mixup is so strong.

First off, you can easily get a freeze from halfscreen to fullscreen distance if your reads are tight. Often times, you should be throwing out an ice ball on a knockdown just because it's safe, it's free meter and it's good oki. If you have time, you can throw out an ice bomb just to get them off their spot or keep them out of yours, then throw in the ice ball to keep them at bay. There's also nothing stopping you from using EX freeze from fullscreen, because his EX freeze is functionally identical to Sub Zero's.

The parry IS absolutely godlike if used sparingly. It gets you out of frametraps, it completely invalidates the crossup punch and the EX freeze grants you a full combo punish. As long as you don't abuse it to the point where your opponent will actively try to circumvent it, the parry is a godsend.

The slide is better than okay. If you seriously have any issue with this, you're asking for too much.

There's really nothing you can say to defend this. Cyber Sub's only real hard matchups are with Kitana, Raiden and Cage, none of which can't be managed. He has all the tools to handle any other situation, and you'd rather make excuses than use them. Truthfully, I find it pretty amusing that this comes just two weeks after you say you're going to be repping the character at Evo.

I've been told I have one of the best Cyber Subs out there, and you know who I blame when I lose? Myself.

 

[Piggy]

...Uh, what? You can EASILY combo off 2 1 pressure from the ground. It's a safe block string, and it's hit confirmable into either a freeze or 2 1 1+2. Against the majority of the roster, you can just keep pressuring with 2 1 and add on the 1+2 at the end if you see them try to get out. Even if the 1+2 is blocked, you can safely jump out or do a jump back divekick. You get a mixup here, because if they attack or block, you get a safe divekick. If you anticipate a jump, you can just uppercut them. You can also mix in 3 3 EX freeze if they aren't blocking low, and if they ARE blocking low, just throw them. No one seems to realize that you make yourself vulnerable to throws when you commit to blocking low, which is why Ermac's F4 mixup is so strong.

First off, you can easily get a freeze from halfscreen to fullscreen distance if your reads are tight. Often times, you should be throwing out an ice ball on wakeup just because it's safe, it's free meter and it's good oki. If you have time, you can throw out an ice bomb just to get them off their spot or keep them out of yours, then throw in the ice ball to keep them at bay. There's also nothing stopping you from using EX freeze from fullscreen, because his EX freeze is functionally identical to Sub Zero's.

The parry IS absolutely godlike if used sparingly. It gets you out of frametraps, it completely invalidates the crossup punch and the EX freeze grants you a full combo punish. As long as you don't abuse it to the point where your opponent will actively try to circumvent it, the parry is a godsend.

The slide is better than okay. If you seriously have any issue with this, you're asking for too much.

There's really nothing you can say to defend this. Cyber Sub's only real hard matchups are with Kitana, Raiden and Cage, none of which can't be managed. He has all the tools to handle any other situation, and you'd rather make excuses than use them. Truthfully, I find it pretty amusing that this comes just two weeks after you say you're going to be repping the character at Evo.

I've been told I have one of the best Cyber Subs out there, and you know who I blame when I lose? Myself.

You've been told that? So have I. We should match up soon.

 

[MagicMan357]

Why is it that all the people that dont need a buff somehow do, but actually people who do somehow dont?

Explain MK community

 

[Piggy]

Why is it that all the people that dont need a buff somehow do, but actually people who do somehow dont?

Explain MK community

Magnets. How do they work????

 

[Altaire]

You've been told that? So have I. We should match up soon.

I'm okay with this, but I'm not doing a mirror match. Certain mirror matches in this game can be interesting, but Cyber Subs just turns into a parry and divekick race.

The only worse mirror match I can recall, from experience, is Sub Zero. I could definitely see a Kitana or Raiden mirror being thoroughly fucking retarded, though.

 

[MagicMan357]

Magnets. How do they work????

>:/

 

[zee]

You've been told that? So have I. We should match up soon.

I want in on this Cyber-fest.

 

[Piggy]

I'm okay with this, but I'm not doing a mirror match. Certain mirror matches in this game can be interesting, but Cyber Subs just turns into a parry and divekick race.

The only worse mirror match I can recall, from experience, is Sub Zero. I could definitely see a Kitana or Raiden mirror being thoroughly fucking retarded, though.

Shoot me a friend request on xbl

 

[CitizenSnips]

Wtf CSZ needs a buff?

I mean a tiny buff here or there wouldn't be much of a big deal, but cmon now... people have been saying CSZ is a top character but I just don't think people have been able to use him to his fullest potential. Not saying there aren't good CSZ out there, but I think once someone really shows off what he is capable of then more and more people will realize he is indeed a great character.

Honestly, CSZ is kind of like Kung Lao but not as ridiculous. Very good rushdown, good defense, good damage... what more can you ask for?