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The World Has No More Room For Monsters: Swamp Thing General Discussion

Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
sranc said:
SOTST is written by Alan Moore, the best. No pre reading required. It's about the Swamp Things search for his identity and eventual acceptance of it while tussling with monsters, warlocks, Batman, and space travel. It checks all the boxes, 10/10.
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True, I recently bought all Moore and Veitch run and loved both :) . I hope Swamp will be great in Injustice 2
 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Premium Supporter
Also I have gone an record about how Gaga I am for Superman stories, but ol swampers is fantastic as well. The alan moore run for the 80's swamp thing is great, and the new 52 reboot comic is also fantastic and the 2nd best thing out of the new 52 period(Wonder Woman wins hands down though).
 
D. R.

D. R.

Noob
Surprised I'm not seeing any theory fighting... I've already made a full game plan for him in my head with all the footage we have of him but that's potentially subject to change based on his frame data. Character seems to have virtually everything outside of a traditional projectile.
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
D. R. said:
Surprised I'm not seeing any theory fighting... I've already made a full game plan for him in my head with all the footage we have of him but that's potentially subject to change based on his frame data. Character seems to have virtually everything outside of a traditional projectile.
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my main "worries" for him is the mb grab teleport thing wont be good at whats its meant to do, getting in, seen in gameplay shown if anything hits swamp before he teleports it hits him out of teleport and he spent a bar for 2%, lost the trade and still in same spot, mb roll might be better but he aint rocking a wowo style tiny dash to go into mb roll quicker so i dunno.
2nd thing is hoping he doesnt have is tremor syndrome where is mid is two slow that u have to use d1/d3 to stop from being d1ed after opponent at minus frames, think they said that massive stick mid is 16 frames and dont think its been said what startup the mid shoulder string is.
3rd with the specific ranges of the vine grabs & that there a high hoping they arent just left as combos enders/when you read a backdash, the aa one seems most usefull so far imo
4th that jump that makes cages look good :/

2 other things that might change for release but was told to me from someone played a prerelease build in uk that d1~anything doesnt combo and the only normal he could find that comboed into mb b3/f3 was d3.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
1man3letters said:
my main "worries" for him is the mb grab teleport thing wont be good at whats its meant to do, getting in, seen in gameplay shown if anything hits swamp before he teleports it hits him out of teleport and he spent a bar for 2%, lost the trade and still in same spot, mb roll might be better but he aint rocking a wowo style tiny dash to go into mb roll quicker so i dunno.
2nd thing is hoping he doesnt have is tremor syndrome where is mid is two slow that u have to use d1/d3 to stop from being d1ed after opponent at minus frames, think they said that massive stick mid is 16 frames and dont think its been said what startup the mid shoulder string is.
3rd with the specific ranges of the vine grabs & that there a high hoping they arent just left as combos enders/when you read a backdash, the aa one seems most usefull so far imo
4th that jump that makes cages look good :/

2 other things that might change for release but was told to me from someone played a prerelease build in uk that d1~anything doesnt combo and the only normal he could find that comboed into mb b3/f3 was d3.
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Remember, log trades were apparently huge in zoning matchups. (Like Swampy vs Deadshot)
 
Wetdoba

Wetdoba

All too easy...
1man3letters said:
my main "worries" for him is the mb grab teleport thing wont be good at whats its meant to do, getting in, seen in gameplay shown if anything hits swamp before he teleports it hits him out of teleport and he spent a bar for 2%, lost the trade and still in same spot, mb roll might be better but he aint rocking a wowo style tiny dash to go into mb roll quicker so i dunno.
2nd thing is hoping he doesnt have is tremor syndrome where is mid is two slow that u have to use d1/d3 to stop from being d1ed after opponent at minus frames, think they said that massive stick mid is 16 frames and dont think its been said what startup the mid shoulder string is.
3rd with the specific ranges of the vine grabs & that there a high hoping they arent just left as combos enders/when you read a backdash, the aa one seems most usefull so far imo
4th that jump that makes cages look good :/

2 other things that might change for release but was told to me from someone played a prerelease build in uk that d1~anything doesnt combo and the only normal he could find that comboed into mb b3/f3 was d3.
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1. Thats suppose to be hard to use, grapplers cant just get in for free

2. Youre playing a grappler... the fast mid they have to respect on minus frames is raw command grab

3. Theyre full screen unblockables that do 20%+ raw, again, suppose to be used on hard reads and not just thrown out

4. Giant club and branch limb jump ins make this no where close to cage status
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
CrazyFingers said:
Remember, log trades were apparently huge in zoning matchups. (Like Swampy vs Deadshot)
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yea heard it said but havnt seen with my own eyes that the log will still come out even if swamp doesnt get full animation out, im interrested to knock log kicks frames in general.
doesnt seem to be a mb log kick to my knowledge
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Wetdoba said:
1. Thats suppose to be hard to use, grapplers cant just get in for free

2. Youre playing a grappler... the fast mid they have to respect on minus frames is raw command grab

3. Theyre full screen unblockables that do 20%+ raw, again, suppose to be used on hard reads and not just thrown out

4. Giant club and branch limb jump ins make this no where close to cage status
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who shit in your cornflakes lol im just saying what im worried about BEFORE i get a chance to lab swampy, my worries might all go away within 5 mins of having his frame data + training mode in front of me

1. compare grodds and even scarecrows(he has mad range like swamp thing as well as a CG) get in tools to that telegrab, on paper they look like they getting in with more ease

2.yea thats a fair point however but in nrs games normals beat command grabs alot of time and in inj1 there were PLENTY of grab immune stuff because of animations and such

3. i mentioned about using them on reads on backdashes, there also not fullscreen and they high so fact they unblockable not as big of deal imo, also im sure grab immune stuff will mess with these in general anyway if "just thrown out" along with log kick why would you not be ducking vs him at range while on defense?

4. we have no idea of the hitbox/hurtbox of those air normals vs aa, example tyler go d2ed on watchtower and it visually looked like the stick was d2ed if im remember correctly but aswell obviously that wasnt release build and also the obvious mb b3/f3 aa which wont give a shit how big those normals are as swampy be floating in air
 
Wetdoba

Wetdoba

All too easy...
1man3letters said:
who shit in your cornflakes lol im just saying what im worried about BEFORE i get a chance to lab swampy, my worries might all go away within 5 mins of having his frame data + training mode in front of me

1. compare grodds and even scarecrows(he has mad range like swamp thing as well as a CG) get in tools to that telegrab, on paper they look like they getting in with more ease

2.yea thats a fair point however but in nrs games normals beat command grabs alot of time and in inj1 there were PLENTY of grab immune stuff because of animations and such

3. i mentioned about using them on reads on backdashes, there also not fullscreen and they high so fact they unblockable not as big of deal imo, also im sure grab immune stuff will mess with these in general anyway if "just thrown out" along with log kick why would you not be ducking vs him at range while on defense?

4. we have no idea of the hitbox/hurtbox of those air normals vs aa, example tyler go d2ed on watchtower and it visually looked like the stick was d2ed if im remember correctly but aswell obviously that wasnt release build and also the obvious mb b3/f3 aa which wont give a shit how big those normals are as swampy be floating in air
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I was just responding to your points with my thoughts, chill. I agree with DR, this character seems to have everything but a traditional projectile and absurd utility for a grappler so Im not really worried about things like a floaty jump or being zoned out, those come with being a grappler.

Grodd and Scarecrow can get in easier because Grodd does jot have a command grab and scarecrows is nowhere near as good as swampthings, especially when combined with the garden trait.

B1 (?) shoulder mid seems plenty fast considering its plus and staggerable according to K+M and raw grab and D1xx grab will take care of people D1-ing out of plus frames, D1s wont ever be grab immune.

The ranged grabs arent suppose to be full screen mix ups either they are suppose to be respect tools to keep people honest against him from longe range so yeah they have to be highs. I am curious if he will be invincible during the animation though once he grabs you, would be annoying to trade with a projectile on a read rather than beat them but well see.

And yeah floaty jump is a trade mark of grapplers so I dont see this as a problem because the jump ins themselves are still plenty good
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Wetdoba said:
I was just responding to your points with my thoughts, chill. I agree with DR, this character seems to have everything but a traditional projectile and absurd utility for a grappler so Im not really worried about things like a floaty jump or being zoned out, those come with being a grappler.

Grodd and Scarecrow can get in easier because Grodd does jot have a command grab and scarecrows is nowhere near as good as swampthings, especially when combined with the garden trait.

B1 (?) shoulder mid seems plenty fast considering its plus and staggerable according to K+M and raw grab and D1xx grab will take care of people D1-ing out of plus frames, D1s wont ever be grab immune.

The ranged grabs arent suppose to be full screen mix ups either they are suppose to be respect tools to keep people honest against him from longe range so yeah they have to be highs. I am curious if he will be invincible during the animation though once he grabs you, would be annoying to trade with a projectile on a read rather than beat them but well see.

And yeah floaty jump is a trade mark of grapplers so I dont see this as a problem because the jump ins themselves are still plenty good
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my apologies then, seemed like your were trying for a argument rather than discussion, my bad

technically grodd does have CG, from his leap, can be mb'ed for combo aswell

yea i mentioned b1 and waiting to see what the frames are, didnt know it was staggerable, that be nice if stays in. i not fully on board with you on the d1 thing being answer to grab immune stuff, d1~grab wont combo on hit and from whats been shown so far looks punishable if that happens on hit and on block besides the obvious thing of jumping out, if something is grab immune opponent will just do it after blocking the d1 no? but guess its a mixup of doouble d1 or d1~grab in that situation

yeah be annoying to grab someone with them and be hit out of it (maybe like from fates slow moving orb)

i dont think u get my point where as even if his normals couldnt be aa'ed hes up in air so long he'll possibly be easy pickings for mb b3 aa's but at least opponent using resources for that.
i wonder how his instant jump normals (j1/2) are for when he has to neutral jump to punish things, be nice if he could hit on way up rather than waiting for way back down
 
Wetdoba

Wetdoba

All too easy...
1man3letters said:
my apologies then, seemed like your were trying for a argument rather than discussion, my bad

technically grodd does have CG, from his leap, can be mb'ed for combo aswell

yea i mentioned b1 and waiting to see what the frames are, didnt know it was staggerable, that be nice if stays in. i not fully on board with you on the d1 thing being answer to grab immune stuff, d1~grab wont combo on hit and from whats been shown so far looks punishable if that happens on hit and on block besides the obvious thing of jumping out, if something is grab immune opponent will just do it after blocking the d1 no? but guess its a mixup of doouble d1 or d1~grab in that situation

yeah be annoying to grab someone with them and be hit out of it (maybe like from fates slow moving orb)

i dont think u get my point where as even if his normals couldnt be aa'ed hes up in air so long he'll possibly be easy pickings for mb b3 aa's but at least opponent using resources for that.
i wonder how his instant jump normals (j1/2) are for when he has to neutral jump to punish things, be nice if he could hit on way up rather than waiting for way back down
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Grab into leap isnt the same as a standing grab though in terms of application, Grodds will be for set ups rather than general go to pressure.

K+M said the second hit of B1 was plusand the first hit does a weird delay before the second hit so seems staggerable.

The D1 thing was in reference to tremor syndrome. Swampthing wont have to worry about ppl disrespecting his turn with D1s because reversal grab will blow that up since you dont have to worry about D1s being grab immune, as for other moves well have to see. Im not even using D1 in this scenario, this is just to blow up their D1 if they try to do one when you are at slight advantage.

I have a feeling the long range grabs will not be invincible after you grab them, it wasnt that way for grabs in I1 now that I think about it. Joker teeth would hit Bane out of his grab after already grabbing joker for instance so against someone like Fate if Swampy grabs him while the fireball is already on screen I assume itll knock him out of it. Vine grabs will probably be for blowing up dashes and maybe punishing raw activation moves or moves like Fates healing orb from a distance.

And yeah theres no doubt that you wont be able to abuse his jumping wven with good reaching jump ins because its dloaty but thats the point, hes suppose to be on the ground. There will still be plenty of good uses for them like potential instant air overheads with J3 Glacius/Dhalsim style and J2 will blow up bad fireballs from like midscreen
 
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freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
Swamp thing as a character is intriguing to me. I've never read an actual comicbook but maybe I'll do so when I get home. Anyone know if I can read them online?
 
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