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The Top 10 Characters.

Cat

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
Qwark28 said:
While he's a great character, you can zone him out, contrary to popular belief. Being an agility character and relying heavily on meter are bad for him as well at the fact that pretty much everyone in the top 10 can zone and get good damage or combos from their zoning. Flash without meter doesn't do almost any notable damage and without trait he does the flowchart 42% without trait to improve the damage and give him his bar back.

Notable mentions are all viable and very good characters with few faults, it's just that you have to pick the absolute best for a top 10, doomsday barely got in because he has a 7 3.
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Zone flash out? A bad flash player maybe. His forward dash is one of the best in the game. Has lil to no recovery. He just has to get in once and then go for a 5050 safe mix up that does not even have to be hit confirmed. 1 combo gets 50 or more percent and pushes to corner. All his strings leave him at advantage or safe enough to backdash. His mb charge is something you wont block ducking all the time if the flash player knows when do it.

Flash is top 5 in my book. Ppl just have no clue yet unless they have a good flash player to play.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Cat said:
Lol okay. Flash has the best forward dash in the game with lil to no recovery. Mb charge to get in or whiff punish from the distance.
50 50 mix ups that lead to full combos that you dont even have to hit confirm. And the mix ups take no risk amd can even leave him at advantage. All that works midscreen son.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
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What this guy said. This myth of keeping a competent Flash out forever just on zoning alone needs to stop.
 
Briggs8417

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
I personally don't see Aquaman as a top 5 character. I think once the game fleshes out more people will start to realize it, but he is still top ten imo. This how I think the top ten goes:
1) Wonder Woman
2) Superman
3) Black Adam
4) Batman
5) Martian Manhunter
6) Green Lantern
7) Batgirl
8) Aquaman
9) Zod
10) Killer Frost
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
RiBBz22 said:
I think that Killer Frost 7-3'd her before the 1.05 patch and possibly still does.
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Can you explain why?
Cat said:
Zone flash out? A bad flash player maybe. His forward dash is one of the best in the game. Has lil to no recovery. He just has to get in once and then go for a 5050 safe mix up that does not even have to be hit confirmed. 1 combo gets 50 or more percent and pushes to corner. All his strings leave him at advantage or safe enough to backdash. His mb charge is something you wont block ducking all the time if the flash player knows when do it.

Flash is top 5 in my book. Ppl just have no clue yet unless they have a good flash player to play.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
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I've played Zyphox, you will not zone out flash, I said almost everyone in top 10 has zoning tools, not that he will be zoned out forever. Flashes offense will not last forever and just about everyone in top 10 has a way of starting their own offense. That 50 50 safe mixup can be done every 20 seconds or so and clash or transitions reset it. MB charge can be backdashed and you'll force him to spend yet another bar to punish you for 30%. Not all his strings are advantage and you get almost nothing guaranteed after most of them.

You confuse my post as saying that flash is not a good character, he's great but when you reach an entry point in which the rules are "you must be better than x character" then flash is top 11-12
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
I honestly feel aquaman is barely top 10 he loses to characters like Grundy. No one else in the top ten loses to him except maybe Flash. AM probably loses to bane too.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Qwark28 said:
Can you explain why?
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A blocked soul crush from anywhere just inside of full screen leads to an easy combo into a 50-50. On knockdown, with Raven's wake-up options KF can really bully the hell out of her with launchers that put her back in a 50-50 situation... if you decide to go for a launcher or block and punish on a read. Because of this the meterless vortex with Frost is an extremely viable option. Also, lack of a good low will make parry more of a factor in the back of the Raven player's mind (it is the KF players job to force them to respect this).

Within soul crush range KF literally has to do nothing other than sit and wait for this move. If Raven traits up, Frost can react to it, any whiffs from that range are punished with slide, and jump in attempts can all be stuffed with D2 after the AA buffs. It is a million times harder for Raven to hold a life lead in this MU than Frost. It is just the nature of the characters and the MU itself that lead to Frost having many more opportunities for damage, while Raven will have to be on their heels making sure they avoid it.

IMO, getting into trait and using it cleverly is a must for the Raven player to compete in this MU.

xKhaoTik Konqrr RunwayMafia Espio
 
Briggs8417

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
RiBBz22 said:
I think the consensus is that the frame data is wrong and it is more like 15 frames of start up.
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I wish Somberness would come on out and help the community with this frame data, because at this point I just don't trust NRS with it anymore lol.
 
SaJa

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Cat said:
Zone flash out? A bad flash player maybe. His forward dash is one of the best in the game. Has lil to no recovery. He just has to get in once and then go for a 5050 safe mix up that does not even have to be hit confirmed. 1 combo gets 50 or more percent and pushes to corner. All his strings leave him at advantage or safe enough to backdash. His mb charge is something you wont block ducking all the time if the flash player knows when do it.

Flash is top 5 in my book. Ppl just have no clue yet unless they have a good flash player to play.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

When you talk about a character you ALSO need to talk about his weaknesses. If you don't know them, so you don't know the matchup.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
RiBBz22 said:
A blocked soul crush from anywhere just inside of full screen leads to an easy combo into a 50-50. On knockdown, with Raven's wake-up options KF can really bully the hell out of her with launchers that put her back in a 50-50 situation... if you decide to go for a launcher or block and punish on a read. Because of this the meterless vortex with Frost is an extremely viable option. Also, lack of a good low will make parry more of a factor in the back of the Raven player's mind (it is the KF players job to force them to respect this).

Within soul crush range KF literally has to do nothing other than sit and wait for this move. If Raven traits up, Frost can react to it, any whiffs from that range are punished with slide, and jump in attempts can all be stuffed with D2 after the AA buffs. It is a million times harder for Raven to hold a life lead in this MU than Frost. It is just the nature of the characters and the MU itself that lead to Frost having many more opportunities for damage, while Raven will have to be on their heels making sure they avoid it.

IMO, getting into trait and using it cleverly is a must for the Raven player to compete in this MU.

xKhaoTik Konqrr RunwayMafia Espio
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KF can't zone.

Raven won't trait up unless its from a B23 knockdown ender, you won't find any good raven just traiting up right in front of you.

I just tested this in practice mode, you can't even slide soul crush within jump distance dude but you can do iceberg from anywhere. On block, iceberg is full combo punished if just outside jump distance with 1 bar from raven which she will have. If KF is waiting for Soul crush then she's not moving.

Raven does have a hitconfirmable low into full combo.

Nvm, read post above. I agree if that works.
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Champion
Lists and stuff.. Fuck yeah!

1.) Supes
2.) BA
3.) Aquaman (Do I sense a slight rise in aquaman downplaying here on TYM? Dizzys Aquaman still gives me nightmares.....)
4.) Wonderwoman
5.) Batman
6.) Green Lantern
7.) Flash
8.) Batgirl
9.) Killer Frost
10.) Doomsday/ MMH/ Zod/ (I honestly can't decide.)
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Qwark28 said:
Nvm, read post above. I agree if that works.
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Yeah, what you want to do is learn the max edge of SC range, then you are free to throw out icebergs. If the Raven player blocks one and tries to punish it with SC you will have moved back just enough to make the SC whiff. Then you can iceberg MB, dash and slide and do your ender of choice. I am not talking about traiting up right in front of me. I am saying to use the recovery time to do what I want. Put a projectile on the screen, move in close, slide....whatever to lead into more of my shenanigans. If they are able to get the trait off successfully, then yes the KF player definitely has to respect it and be on anti-air guard for tele mixups.
 
Briggs8417

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
RiBBz22 said:
Joker8417

Normal easy punish on Raven players for soul crush on block is Iceberg MB into slide. You can also MB Iceberg and dash into slide and it will connect. Konqrr put out an awesome video on punishing that move.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/raven-soul-crush-punish-setup.30874/
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Thanks for that, I am very familiar with that punish lol. OH also, I wasn't talking about slide as a punish on block, I was talking about being able to slide under crushes hitbox when it starts up. Is that possible?
 
TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
Joker8417 said:
Thanks for that, I am very familiar with that punish lol. OH also, I wasn't talking about slide as a punish on block, I was talking about being able to slide under crushes hitbox when it starts up. Is that possible?
Click to expand...
She definitely can't.

Also KF's slide has 14 frames of start-up. Now you know. :D
 
zuurrkk

zuurrkk

World's worst GL
Almost September and I feel Raven is getting ridiculously slept on still. Please keep doing so because I hate that stupid matchup.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I'm curious

I know we like listing things (even tho it is dumb in a 1v1 type setting)

Shoudln't you just list who the tourney viable peeps are?

Certain characters may have like 2 reallyb ad MU's... yet those MU's are against characters who just won't be seen in tourney and can be easily counter picked.

Seriously though. We have GOT to quit listing characters when the game is based on a 1v1 environment.
 
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