The Superman Nerf Chronicles

[MortySeinfeld]

Can we make it so Lex Luthor's 112 string hits mid on on 3 hits?

I would probably actually play him if he had a decent string or 2.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

Watch me vs Blind Ducky's Raven, since you apparently can't play the matchup. Superman zoning vs Raven's zoning is a 0-10 matchup.

To be fair, in that matchup it looked like you had very little Raven experience.

Although you were clearly the stronger player (playing a stronger character) and were able to adapt.

 

[Qwark28]

Watching Superman play slows down time, dear anti-error. Besides, it breaks armor and increases damage, while Flash's scales damage.

flashes gives him a huge dmg boost via combos and through those combos he can make more meter than he used for his 1 bar combos lol

 

[afrozilla86]

With all do respect it may be hard for him to grab a 0-10 when said raven player is blind ducky/chemical venom who excels at zoning, and the only match that demonstrates her anti zoning abilities is match one before you adjusted to agro tech chasing with f23 to lure into the corner. Its not that he can't out zone raven, its that you have no reason to when close range game promotes a higher winning ratio in your favor.

 

[Tony at Home]

I play Lex and once Supes gets full meter:

1) Any combo ending with Orbital Strike punished by Supermove
2) Any combo ending with Mine setup punished by Supermove
3) Any combo ending with Probe setup punished by Supermove
4) Any combo ending with Trait setup punished by Supermove
5) Anytime I forward dash/jump/armor up/DO ANYTHING, unless I do so in between lasers, will get punished by Supermove...You might as well be Superman, and just sit there and wait for me to do any of the things that will get me killed.

Of course, I could get some setups in if I end a combo with u3, but this will put supes a full screen away from me, and just let you laser me more....

 

[RWDY Nori]

 

[Wigy]

Might be the most biased thing i have ever read.

 

[Wigy]

He only has mix-ups in the corner
His "resets" can be blocked if you know the setup
All of his "options" have risk if you are prepared for them and make the read

Now His trait......I'm sure I don't have to explain what exactly it does

But lets look at other characters traits and you can compare just how good supes trait is

Batman
Bats when 2 bats are active everything batman does is safe
Full screen whiff punish
Bats, Bats, Bats

Flash
Insane 1 meter dmg off a Hit-confirm-able trait (dare I say just like superman's trait), except he can do it anywhere not just in the corner

Nightwing
Staff Stance Stupidity

Raven
Full screen Lock-down, a wake-up option

Waterman
^self explanatory

WW
A F0xy Grampa

African American Adam
Free dmg for trying to hit him

Sinestro
all match-ups turn into his favor until his trait is finished

I only went over some traits

Nightwings trait means he can only have access to half his moves at a time not to mention he cannot jump and use interactables and has no real AA options.
Flashes trait has longer cooldown, also theres the fact that apart from the torpedo flash can't really zone at all so when he gets in he gets rewarded for it, superman can zone so he should rightfully get less of a reward. Plus with flashes stupid t rex arms in comparison with supes its much harder to start a combo.
Batman gets knocked out bats easily, and he DEFO needs bats to cover his strings which are either 0 range or have gaps.
Wonder woman--same as NW
Sinestro has to charge up his trait, which allows you to get in on him where almost every character slaughters him. Supes just recharges casual as fuck and activation is casual as fuck.

Lets not forget that it breaks all armour for some fucking stupid reason which completely negates like 70% of grundy's options and almost completely negates banes traits and anti zoning options?

You're obviously too gay for superman to create a balanced comparison.

I don't necessarily agree his trait shouldn't be cancellable on combo BUT other characters need to be buffed to keep that fair and for fuck sake it shouldn't negate armour that is just a dumbfuck gamebreaking mechanic.

/edit: didn't address raven or BA since i don't have enough MU experience to make a informed argument.

 

[VOR]

Why do people think superman doesn't have mixups? 22 scoop, 223, f2d1, b1 is a pretty fast low, f3. All of these will do mega damage in the corner. Then there's f2 mb laser, f2 heat zap for frame adv. etc. I'm sorry but if you think supes doesnt have mixups you suck.

 

[nfdsallwd]

Why do people think superman doesn't have mixups? 22 scoop, 223, f2d1, b1 is a pretty fast low, f3. All of these will do mega damage in the corner. Then there's f2 mb laser, f2 heat zap for frame adv. etc. I'm sorry but if you think supes doesnt have mixups you suck.

these are all gimmicks, not mixups. your "pretty fast low" is 19 frames. lol at f2 mb laser. f2 heat zap is interruptible by anything with its startup. shows how much do you not suck and know superman. 30 frames f3 is for sure a dope mixup

 

[Wigy]

these are all gimmicks, not mixups. your "pretty fast low" is 19 frames. lol at f2 mb laser. f2 heat zap is interruptible by anything with its startup. shows how much do you not suck and know superman. 30 frames f3 is for sure a dope mixup

Its not safe but 22 scoop is a mixup.

What he lacks in mixups doesn't matter, a number of characters lack viable mixup options but they still don't have f2 to whiffpunish or just generally snuff attempts at getting in.

From watching tournaments etc on stream even at the highest level superman has no trouble starting strings, he probably lands more combos than like 80% of the cast from all the matches i watched. Cause of the crappy footsies in this game f23 is just a stupidy good tool.

 

[nfdsallwd]

i didn't say anything about 223. it can catch people offguard. i was referring to his other "mixups". his real mixups are crossups with divepunch but when people realize that if they block it as crossup and superman then tries to hit divepunch in front - he loses damage and get nothing. so its also more of a gimmick.
and i don't downplay him, i think he is top3 if not the best, and its clear for me that he will be nerfed

 

[VOR]

these are all gimmicks, not mixups. your "pretty fast low" is 19 frames. lol at f2 mb laser. f2 heat zap is interruptible by anything with its startup. shows how much do you not suck and know superman. 30 frames f3 is for sure a dope mixup

Good players get hit with this stuff all the time, because they are anticpating what's going to happen with the inevitable f23 exchange. if you don't do any of these mixups, you're respecting your opponent way too much. plus, i didn't even mention his setups.

 

[Wigy]

His setups make up for what he lacks in mixups -which is still more than a lot of characters have, so i don't get how you can justify not nerfing him considering the only argument that i hear from supes that he isn't OP is his lack of mixups.

 

[big_aug]

I just don't understand why he has a super move like that. You basically can't do a fucking thing once he has full meter. No other char in the game has a move like that which makes you fear doing anything.

And it's really damn easy for him to build meter.

 

[Metzos]

Tru there are characters that cant backdash the full string but they still have the option of Mb b3/f3 and the other 2

No. Why ? Cause it can be baited and punished with a full combo by Superman afterwards. What if Superman simply cancels to trait instead of breath after a blocked F23? Bye bye armored B3/F3. You cant react to that. Also i dont know if its known but F23 breath loops on block dont always leave the opponent at the same distance. That also is a very big disadvantage against Superman cause if you try to down poke, you get blown up by F23 since you are out of range after you have blocked F23xbreath. Imo the only nerf i would give Superman it would be his F2 to be around 10 or 12 frames or nerf its range and hitbox. Other than that he is fine IMO.

Post edited.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

No. Why ? Cause it can be baited and punished with a full combo by Superman afterwards. What if Superman simply cancels to trait instead of breath after a blocked F23? Bye bye armored B3/F3. You cant react to that. Also i dont know if its known but F23 breath loops on block dont always leave the opponent at the same distance. That also is a very big disadvantage against Superman cause if you try to down poke, you get blown up by F23 since you are out of range after you have blocked F23xbreath. Imo the only nerf i would give Superman it would be his F2 to be around 10 or 12 frames or nerf its range and hitbox. Other than that he is fine IMO.

Post edited.

I'll give you the 10 frame start up. Even at 10 frames, you still must make a read.

These "set ups" other people have been referring to are truly gimmicks. These aren't truly set ups because they are blockable and Superman can be punished from a blocked divebomb setup. KDZ has been doing that setup for a while and DarthArma blocks it pretty consistently because he has practiced. This setup is extremely telegraphed. If you can't tell the difference between the dropped damage for the OTG vs the full damage combo when you have that much time, the nerfs won't help you. If you want to see setups that need nerfing, please look at Foxy's corner game with Wonder Woman. A blocked OTG dive gives him +6 advantage. Flash has more corner tech now with even more crossup shenanigans making you HAVE to block on wakeup.

Remember Doomsday? He's midtier because people adapted.

 

[Metzos]

I'll give you the 10 frame start up. Even at 10 frames, you still must make a read. These "set ups" other people have been referring to are truly gimmicks. Remember Doomsday? He's midtier because people adapted. These aren't truly set ups because they are blockable and Superman can be punished from a blocked divebomb setup. KDZ has been doing that setup for a while and DarthArma blocks it pretty consistently because he has practiced. This setup is extremely telegraphed. If you can't tell the difference between the dropped damage for the OTG vs the full damage combo when you have that much time, the nerfs won't help you. If you want to see setups that need nerfing, please look at Foxy's corner game with Wonder Woman.

Well, personally i dont have problems with his OTG's. His OTG's are a matter of blocking and can be dealt with in time. But what cant be dealt with, is having an 8f safe, mid, cancelable combo starter move which also happens to be an excellent whiff punishing move, blows up down pokes, has an excellent range and hitbox and leads to 50% dmg combos mid screen or OTG's. That is a bit too much IMO. As for WW exp, i practice with Nivek (the EU IGAU champion) who mains WW and he is at the same lvl as Foxy, offline. I keep hearing that Superman should have his lasers nerfed, his OTG's nerfed etc etc. The only nerf Superman needs is his F2. If NRS decides to nerf anything else besides that it will destroy the character. Dont even get me started on DD cause that will derail the thread. Pm me if you like and we can discuss it there.

 

[VOR]

I'll give you the 10 frame start up. Even at 10 frames, you still must make a read.

These "set ups" other people have been referring to are truly gimmicks. These aren't truly set ups because they are blockable and Superman can be punished from a blocked divebomb setup. KDZ has been doing that setup for a while and DarthArma blocks it pretty consistently because he has practiced. This setup is extremely telegraphed. If you can't tell the difference between the dropped damage for the OTG vs the full damage combo when you have that much time, the nerfs won't help you. If you want to see setups that need nerfing, please look at Foxy's corner game with Wonder Woman. A blocked OTG dive gives him +6 advantage. Flash has more corner tech now with even more crossup shenanigans making you HAVE to block on wakeup.

Remember Doomsday? He's midtier because people adapted.

Doomsday got nerfed 3 times and the 1.04 wakeup buff really hurt his game. Plus he has nowhere near supoerman's zoning, damage, or whiff punishing abilities. Just saying that it wasn't all adaptation.

 

[Farpafraf]

What about his 2 frames invincible super how are we supposed to deal with that?

 

[SolomonGrundman]

What about his 2 frames invincible super how are we supposed to deal with that?

You don't. He's so balanced and he needs 2 frames on his super to keep him that way.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

You don't. He's so balanced and he needs 2 frames on his super to keep him that way.

if you dont have anything to add to the thread plz dont post

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

What about his 2 frames invincible super how are we supposed to deal with that?

Keep it in mind,
walk
dont whiff
dont throw anything

 

[SolomonGrundman]

if you dont have anything to add to the thread plz dont post

I have some daily sarcasm to post. It's also arguments other Super mains have said. I didn't make that sentence out of thin air, I'm not that deluded.

 

[Jayroc]

You haters are taking the panzy train to puss town on your cry threads.