The Newest Mortal Kombat (9) Tier List

[Zyns]

One of my favorite parts of fighting game communities is watching the tier list change over time as new techs are discovered and patches are applied. It's really interesting.

 

[16 Bit]

This then brings us back to UFG's point, if he has no matchups where he actually loses why is he mid tier?

He has 6-4 matchups. The potential for comeback and a matchup being not too far out of reach doesn't = all 5/5 matchups.

 

[Slips]

This then brings us back to UFG's point, if he has no matchups where he actually loses why is he mid tier?

Because he has no match-ups where he actually wins either.

 

[LuckyStrikeMike]

I don't see how Cage has trouble with Freddy or Mileena ( i think those are 5-5 matchups ) , also Sektor is not a bad matchup it's 5-5 for sure , Sonya i have some doubts about that too , could you please explain your vision on those matchups?

you're joking, right? Cage has always had problems against strong zoning characters. Even with EN shadow kick, zoning match ups remain his most difficult. Getting in on Freddy and Mileena is going to be the tough part. He's going to take a significant amount of damage or chip trying just to do that. Mileena can spend the whole match throwing instant air sais. Once he does get in, Mileena's excellent D+4 is going to easily push cage back out to a safe distance when used correctly. If Mileena isn't comfortable with that, she can always burn some meter for EN tele-kick into air sai for a (completely?) safe escape. Freddy has arguably the best zoning in the game, assuming you use his tools effectively. He could essentially keep Cage out for a whole match with the proper glove and ground spike set ups and good reads. If cage happens to get in, Freddy can wake up with EN sweet dreams or teleports to get out or reset the projectile game. Same story with sektor. His missles are excellent spacing tools and do great damage. But the hardest thing for Cage is going to be getting in on a Sektor who effectively uses flamethrower anti-air. And if Sektor starts making good reads about jumping and spacing against Cage, EN or regular tele-uppercut will result in huge punish opportunities, ending in a possible flamethrower reset.

These are certainly hard fights for Cage. 6-4 against him at least, maybe worse. Think about it.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Because he has no match-ups where he actually wins either.

They're placing characters based on 'bad matchups'. An even matchup cant be considered a bad matchup

 

[Death]

Slips, If 1 character went 5-5 with everyone in the cast he would be considered S tier.

 

[16 Bit]

Scorpion doesn't go 5-5 with every character.

The point about meter makes it 5-5 was that the zoning characters that normally blow him up then have to be careful when he has meter. Obviously that wouldn't make it an overall 5-5 match.

 

[Slips]

Scorpion doesn't go 5-5 with every character.

The point about meter makes it 5-5 was that the zoning characters that normally blow him up then have to be careful when he has meter. Obviously that wouldn't make it an overall 5-5 match.

Exactly

 

[Dizzy]

Just a few things. Based on bad matchups (which is kind of a weird way to do a tier list and I think its pretty misleading) cage is where he should be at 5-6. I think it may be a few more but who cares.

So, sektor is at the least 5-5 with cage. Saying its in sektors favor is ridiculious. Ex tele uppercut on wakeup is far from free, just time a d4 correctly. Even if you time it wrong it will whiff. Flamethrower is punishable by regular shadow kick easily on reaction if blocked. This is all from real life experience with good sektor players.

You are definitely overestimating freddy over cage. EX dream skeet is worthless beyond belief against cage. It doesn't have armor on startup, and even if armor does go off, F3 advances cage past the falling projectile.

 

[16 Bit]

Wait, why am I making this case? I agree with with the Euro dudes. Kit vs Scorp is a 5-5 matchup. I'm just so good.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

CDJr doesn't main Ermac and I'm positive he didnt know the ins and outs of the character back then. Josh99 is good but he's not at the TOP of the competition out there. Cage stands no chance against a lame Ermac at all, cant jump, dash blocking means you respect the push so much that Ermac can step up to you. Ever get caught by Ermacs throw? See where it leaves you.

Ex shadow kick is useless cause you aint gonna be doing it on reaction to a push. Also at fullscreen Ermacs average fireball owns .

please tell me why would i try to use the armor of ex shadow kick to punish his push when i can just block it and punish it with a regular shadow kick ?

josh99 not been at that level lMO then who is ? ask anyone who has played him offline and they will tell you how good that kid really is

 

[GUTTY333]

please tell me why would i try to use the armor of ex shadow kick to punish his push when i can just block it and punish it with a regular shadow kick ?

josh99 not been at that level lMO then who is ? ask anyone who has played him offline and they will tell you how good that kid really is

I agree Josh99 does have a really solid Ermac

 

[PPJ]

sektor vs cage is definitely not 6-4 in sektors favor...

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

please tell me why would i try to use the armor of ex shadow kick to punish his push when i can just block it and punish it with a regular shadow kick ?

Exactly my point, you're gonna be sitting there waiting for a push and he can run around doing what he wants. When you're sitting there waiting for a move, you're not playing your game which means you arent at advantage. Cage isnt playing his game most of the match against Ermac, even from the beginning of round 1.

 

[Metzos]

please tell me why would i try to use the armor of ex shadow kick to punish his push when i can just block it and punish it with a regular shadow kick ?

You cant punish TKP at max range with Shadow Kick. Any good Ermac player will do it from almost max range which is safe against ALMOST all characters. The way to win this MU is fullscreen. I think thats what Foxy meant. The MU isnt easy for Ermac though i m gonna agree with you on that. Plus Ermac can easily punish his projectiles on reaction with teleport which isnt very hard at all. JC's projectile is slow as hell. Ermac's throw is a massive fight reset in Ermac's favor. If JC gets in its not easy for Ermac to escape pressure but its not impossible. And his down pokes are really good to measure the distance between him and his opponent. Air blast is a very good, and very underrated move, too. Safe on block and pushback. F2 is the same. U4 too. I dont care if i hit the opponent. On block its safe and it pushes back allowing more down pokes to help Ermac keep his distance. The only problem i see Ermac has against JC is F3,2 cause of his high crouch hitbox.Trying to punish TKP's with Shadow Kick wont get you anywhere. One mistake and 30+% of your life is gone.

 

[LuckyStrikeMike]

basically every objection you made makes the assumption that Cage can get in. I'm saying a that a good Sektor should only have to worry about or really allow that a few times a match. If Sektor can land about 3 missles or flames for each time Johnny gets in, he should win the match. That's not even considering whether Sektor lands any hits from mix up situations.

I'm confused how a d4 is threatening at all when EN TU is used. If you land it, Sektor is at slight frame disadvantage, taking 3%. If not and you whiff, he jumps over or out for free, or can choose to advance and follow up (which may or may not be risky depending on the player). But if he lands the TU, the opponent loses about 25%, with a reset option select. It seems like it's worth the risk.

Yes, blocked flames up close will get Cage a free shadow kick. But that isn't really a good situation for Cage either, as Sektor only takes a little damage (9%?), but gets pushed far enough away that he can avoid frame traps on follow up. So once again, it seems like its worth the risk on occasion. But it would be silly to overuse it.

Another problem for Cage in this match up is that it's never really a good idea use his projectiles, and it's a bad trade to use EN shadow kick to get in.
Honestly, I think the only way Cage has a shot in this match is for him to get in at least 4 times, against a player who has little experience against his block strings. If Sektor knows how to escape, it's going to be an uphill battle.

 

[G4S KT]

I agree Josh99 does have a really solid Ermac

Truth

 

[Crathen]

you're joking, right? Cage has always had problems against strong zoning characters. Even with EN shadow kick, zoning match ups remain his most difficult. Getting in on Freddy and Mileena is going to be the tough part. He's going to take a significant amount of damage or chip trying just to do that. Mileena can spend the whole match throwing instant air sais. Once he does get in, Mileena's excellent D+4 is going to easily push cage back out to a safe distance when used correctly. If Mileena isn't comfortable with that, she can always burn some meter for EN tele-kick into air sai for a (completely?) safe escape. Freddy has arguably the best zoning in the game, assuming you use his tools effectively. He could essentially keep Cage out for a whole match with the proper glove and ground spike set ups and good reads. If cage happens to get in, Freddy can wake up with EN sweet dreams or teleports to get out or reset the projectile game. Same story with sektor. His missles are excellent spacing tools and do great damage. But the hardest thing for Cage is going to be getting in on a Sektor who effectively uses flamethrower anti-air. And if Sektor starts making good reads about jumping and spacing against Cage, EN or regular tele-uppercut will result in huge punish opportunities, ending in a possible flamethrower reset.

These are certainly hard fights for Cage. 6-4 against him at least, maybe worse. Think about it.

I don't just think about it , i play those matches.

Now , about the mileena MU , yes her d4 is good and keeps cage away but she doesn't change Cages overall game nor she has a use for her specials Telekicks are worthless against cage and saying EX tk sai is a free getaway card is sooo wrong , if he blocks it he gets a combo into Nutpunch , also Mileenas zoning is good but lacks a low/special mid projectile so what's gonna stop cage from just walking and ducking her projectiles until her back is at the wall?Random roll/telekicks?
Also she lacks armor moves and her slow normals makes getting out of Cages pressure hell , Redkick is there to punish a sai ( also nobody mentions that sais deals 6% damage ) and EX nutpunch interrupts mileenas strings pressure.
So Mileena has a good spacing and overall a decent zoning but Cages pressure blows her 5-5.

Read the replies upthere on the freddy and Sektor MU and consider that freddy has a big crouching hitbox making Cages f3(2) even better against him and that a blocked flamethrower anywhere other than max range will net Cage a free f3 into pressure.

 

[M2Dave]

I am in school at the moment, but I briefly have to comment on the absurdity of a couple of the comments that I have read from page 12 and onward.

- Skarlet's pre-patch dagger cancels being a "gimmick". This is just idiocy.

- Ermac beating Johnny Cage. Is it just just me or do these European players make the most ridiculous statements? It feels like one ridiculous statement after another every time I skim through this thread.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I am in school at the moment, but I briefly have to comment on the absurdity of a couple of the comments that I have read from page 12 and onward.

- Skarlet's pre-patch dagger cancels being a "gimmick". This is just idiocy.

- Ermac beating Johnny Cage. Is it just just me or do these European players make the most ridiculous statements? It feels like one ridiculous statement after another every time I skim through this thread.

Is it me or does America even have an Ermac player? It feels like they dont have 1....

Fuck off with all this high and mighty bullshit, you're no more special than any of us. We put across our arguement as to why thats the case and we're still to even get a reply as to why Ermac should lose to Cage. This whole thread is fucking retarded anyway considering its made off of the opinions of 3 or 4 players that dont know how to play the ENTIRE cast.

Fair enough alot of players wont know how to play freddy like you, but what says that you know how to play Cage or Ermac or Sektor for example?

Metsoz and myself are contributing to the debate because we've played the matchup enough to understand who can be cheaper to who and under what conditions things work but our word just gets brushed aside like we have no idea what we're talking about. Whereas you guys on the other hand are just theory fighting your lil socks off.

And before anybody else says it, this is MY post, NOT Europes post.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

meh Kl baad

 

[PND OmegaK]

I am in school at the moment, but I briefly have to comment on the absurdity of a couple of the comments that I have read from page 12 and onward.

- Skarlet's pre-patch dagger cancels being a "gimmick". This is just idiocy.

- Ermac beating Johnny Cage. Is it just just me or do these European players make the most ridiculous statements? It feels like one ridiculous statement after another every time I skim through this thread.

Damn, look how high up that horse is.

 

[Ruuku1012]

Ah that's right.
If I only had Ermac as a main I would realize he speaks like Bizaro Scorpion.
"Of course! Me Kent Clark. How am you?"

Ermac is MK9's waterboy.

 

[Robotic]

Whoa M2, I respect almost everything you say and we've had a few intelligent discussions here and there, but that Europe comment is totally unlike you man.

 

[BenGmanUk]

Oh god not this again....