Strategy The Neutral Game (more discussion needed)

[Vulcan Hades]

I vote for "Air Trip", "Land Trip" or "Acid Trip" when it's Reptile doing it.:tonyt

 

[Protagonist_1]

Well then since I see some SF4 talk,I thought I'll take this opportunity to post some of my matches. Two things though: 1. Its in poor quality 2. I suck at the this game

Anyhow I would appreciate if someone could critique and give me pointers on what I should of done or how I can improve.

I'm going to go into the first game for now, hopefully I can get to the others later.

In the first match, you did a really good job forcing your opponent into the corner. I couldn't help but notice the Guile player was getting a lot of free jump ins in this match however. I saw a few good trip guards and air-to-airs but not that many anti-airs in the neutral game. In addition, in the first round you had a really good life lead in the beginning. I feel at that point you should have backed off the guile player a bit and let him hang himself (commit to attacking you while you lame him out). You'll notice when he was down he began to play more aggressive and you lost the huge life lead you built up (you also took a couple of knockdowns as well). I also feel the guile player was catching on to your jump in patterns. In the last two rounds he won by anti-airing you, so use your jumps wisely. Other than that, I felt your ability to walk forward was pretty good, so you played a good neutral game just need to watch out for those jump ins more.

 

[Protagonist_1]

Not really sure how Down 1 can be the go to movement punisher, when down 1 is usually the lowest range move our characters have. We can be hit from outside of our down 1s range, while the opponent's character does a longer range move. Then again, down 1s are too fast to punish on reaction.. There's no truly
As a Shazam player, Down + 2 and back + 2 for life, though. Playing a character that is 50% unblockable is wonderful, and Back + 2 into safe torpedo brings us very close to D2 tick throw range. Shazam is footsies into momentum and setups, for me anyway. (everyone's a little bit of footsies, everyone in the game can move around, so, they're almost halfway there, without realizing it)

I know it's been said, but, this thread rocks.

Glad your liking the thread so far. As for short pokes (like batman's d1 or for example the character I use Cyborg's d1) I thought you couldn't use them to whiff punish longer range pokes but I later found out you can haha. It's difficult as hell lol, but you have to option select your poke to hit the longer poker upon its recovery frames.

You also have to be standing, then when you read the poke, perform the d1. The reason why is when a character crouches their hurtbox is enlarged. By standing, you reduce the size of your vertical hurtbox, thereby increasing the chances of the poke whiffing. This is how Chun-li's pokes in SF4 can be counterpoked by a character with shorter limbs. Of course, this is done only by complete anticipation and is really difficult to do. I've only managed to do this once online with cyborg against zod's d3 lol.

Here's a vid I made about it a while back using batman's T-rex arms.

Best example is at 6:19 (batman whiff punish Shazam's d3 by d1 into super)

 

[CrimsonShadow]

@Protagonist_1 -- What did you use to make the GIFs?

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Ok, if you couldn't tell already from my other posts/threads I'm also pretty passionate about space control lol. I could talk about it for hours and analyze the risk vs reward of all possible options in every matchup in multiple fighting games.

But right now I want to start with a really basic and straight forward character: Black Adam (which used to be my main too so why not). Ignore Nightwing, he isn't important (imagine it's your main). The following might be very obvious for high level or even some intermediate players. But it's just to illustrate the idea of space control in the neutral game and position advantage. This is how you should visualize things when you're playing imo.

I wish I could post a gif of MAD KOF and Aris completely shutting down pre-patch Black Adam with Nightwing/Deathstroke. Back when everyone was complaining about how braindead BA was

The match I was talking about here is BAD, I don't want anyone to watch it. Seriously, it's a complete clusterfuck lol. MAD KOF is well known in KOF but he's not an Injustice player (which made it that more fun to watch an Injustice scrub understanding the concept of space control in a game he doesn't play). And the Black Adam is pretty bad. But I have to preface by saying it's pre-patch Black Adam so you didn't need to be good with him back then. His Lighting was +, all dive kicks were safe and uncheckable, and he could spam backdash to get away from everything (even most chases wouldn't work). So if you remember back then all BA players ever did was spam dive kicks because nobody knew what to do against it. (btw This will also happen in MKX. Even top Injustice players and top MK9 players won't immediately know what to do vs X character/variation move or mixup. That's what training mode is for.) These are NOT tips for the BA matchup. Now you can simply block a Dive Kick and punish or check BA for free. But back then you couldn't.

Ok so like everyone else vs pre-patch Black Adam MAD KOF gets blown up first match. But he immediately understands where BA and Nightwing want to be and what space they can cover.

Match 2, start of round he starts with a neutral jump read. This would've beat a dash in, a jump/dive or b23. The read fails but it doesn't matter: He already understands what he needs to do. Which is control the air space BA wants to occupy and take advantage of screen space that BA doesn't have control over. Also take note BA often jumps back or backdashes at the start of round range because he can't zone safely from there and b23 is risky because it can be whiff punished easily.

MAD KOF quickly adapts by reacting to BA jumps and/or reading the dive kicks:

Notice how he's always reacting to the jump not the dive kick, but he is meeting the future trajectory of far dive kick that isn't present at the time of the read. This means that jumping forward is riskier than neutral jumping or jumping back. Because if Black Adam didn't dive kick and did J1 or J2 or delayed Dive Kick instead he would've beat NW's read. Unless you jump earlier and meet him before he gets a chance to do anything.

Ok now he's just trolling him.. But again look at how he's jumping outside of the "dive kick pizza" and throwing his own pizza back at where he thinks BA will be or could be.

Visualizing Black Adam's Attack Vectors:

Ground options

When you put all his options together you can see it creates a "triangle shape" and it's very similar when he's in the air.

Air options

By "Air Space Control" I mean controlling air space before you visually see them jump. For example it could be throwing a random up batarang/air gun shots. But of course doing this too much vs Black Adam is risky because he could whiff punish you with black magic if your projectile has slow recovery. But still keep it in mind vs other characters. Controlling a lot of air space can limit a character's mobility and discourage the use of jumps and air specials (make them focus on the ground game).

Just outside of b23 range:

Black Adam doesn't want to stay at that range very long. Watch any match, you'll notice that when BA is at that range he will either crouch in confusion (usually when cornered) or immediately spam backdash/back jumps to be able to start zoning again. Only the more aggressive and footsie based BA players will dare to dash in, stay put and call your dash/read or make a gutsy read themselves. So if you have a good move to chase/punish dashes and jumps, this would be a good range to read those.

You can read the forward dash, the forward jump, the backdash or the back jump. But some characters have big "area of effect" moves that can attack full screen horizontally or vertically. In which case you can 2 for 1 your reads. e.g. Deathstroke's air gun shot would work as a reaction vs forward jump, neutral jump and back jump. But it would lose to Black Magic as a pure read that failed (you jump as a read but you air gun shot on reaction is what I mean). And Nightwing's Flying Grayson would probably hit BA out of any dash or jump attempt. etc.

Full screen and up close distance can be adv. or disadv. it's character specific.


You have to visualize similar shapes for interactables. And just like with Supers, you don't have to use an interactable to take advantage of it. You can simply represent the threat of it (grants you new "attack vectors" that you normally don't have access to and your opponent needs to consider/respect) or you can willingly give up the interactable adv. to bait or counter it. But that could be a completely different post.

I hope this helps more players understand what people mean by visualizing/controlling space and how to watch the screen when you're playing. Understanding each character's options and how their relevance is affected in adv. and disadv. ranges can help you make better reads and react faster to stuff.

 

[SHAOLIN]

I'm going to go into the first game for now, hopefully I can get to the others later.

In the first match, you did a really good job forcing your opponent into the corner. I couldn't help but notice the Guile player was getting a lot of free jump ins in this match however. I saw a few good trip guards and air-to-airs but not that many anti-airs in the neutral game. In addition, in the first round you had a really good life lead in the beginning. I feel at that point you should have backed off the guile player a bit and let him hang himself (commit to attacking you while you lame him out). You'll notice when he was down he began to play more aggressive and you lost the huge life lead you built up (you also took a couple of knockdowns as well). I also feel the guile player was catching on to your jump in patterns. In the last two rounds he won by anti-airing you, so use your jumps wisely. Other than that, I felt your ability to walk forward was pretty good, so you played a good neutral game just need to watch out for those jump ins more.

Thanks. Their's 2 thing I learned about myself: 1. I crack when the other player becomes aggressive( My mind goes blank & start doing stuff I normally don't do) 2. I like pressing buttons and going for the kill, I don't know when its time to back off....




Also @Vulcan Hades your latest post just made me most.............
.................
..........too much?

 

[Protagonist_1]

@Protagonist_1 -- What did you use to make the GIFs?

Website called "makeagif.com". It's pretty legit, plan on making some more FGC based gifs in the future.

 

[ChatterBox]

*everything*

I nominate this for post of the year. More info, all of which helpful, in it than I've ever seen on this site. Thanks man, I'm going to be referring back to this for a while.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I nominate this for post of the year. More info, all of which helpful, in it than I've ever seen on this site. Thanks man, I'm going to be referring back to this for a while.

I picked Black Adam because it's easy to telegraph/visualize his options since they're all diagonally down attacks. But just remember I also picked pre-patch Black Adam on purpose. Because the point wasn't to share MU knowledge or tips. It's to help people understand a concept so they can apply it themselves for any other character/MU/fighting game.

 

[Protagonist_1]

That post is godlike @Vulcan Hades, really amazing to see how Mr. KOF adapted. I really hope we get even more international competition for MKX at Evo next year.

 

[Protagonist_1]

With all this discussion about the neutral game, we need to talk about how injustice differs from other fighting games.

Interactables completely change the traditional spacing/footsie game for a few main reasons.

1) unblockable
2) huge damage
3) huge hit box
4) tracking

It's a calculation of risk/reward. But interactables make it very high risk for some (NW) and high reward for others (batgirl).

The hard adaptation is around an ever changing footsie meta. The video @Syknis posted is a great example because when the roomba rolled up the footsie game was different and then went back to normal.

For me this was a huge learning curve as all my characters got bopped by interactables.

When the way you have to play footsies constantly changes, the constant awareness of multiple factors, movement has to be deliberate and tight cause there is little room for error

Fully agree on this. I honestly don't study interactables enough on each stage or test the tracking towards them, but I should considering how they can change the neutral game significantly. I think that's something I will look into as well. I know some don't go full screen (mainly the side scrolling interactables) and the majority can be either mbb3/f3 punished or MBDC (FADC) punished.

Like for example, I usually (actually always) MBDC (Meter Burn Dash Cancel like FADC in street fighter) when someone is throwing an interactable I feel I can't dodge if I have the meter. I use cyborg, and on some stages you can MBDC through an interactable by forward dashing and punishing with his power fist (usually after an interactable is thrown, the opposing character hangs in the air for a bit). However, against interactables with quick recovery, I usually just FADC backward or cancel it forward and grab. Honestly, I feel avoiding the 20% and hardknock down is worth the meter on most occasions, but it can be entirely character dependent.

 

[Hades]

Ok, if you couldn't tell already from my other posts/threads I'm also pretty passionate about space control lol. I could talk about it for hours and analyze the risk vs reward of all possible options in every matchup in multiple fighting games.

But right now I want to start with a really basic and straight forward character: Black Adam (which used to be my main too so why not). Ignore Nightwing, he isn't important (imagine it's your main). The following might be very obvious for high level or even some intermediate players. But it's just to illustrate the idea of space control in the neutral game and position advantage. This is how you should visualize things when you're playing imo.


The match I was talking about here is BAD, I don't want anyone to watch it. Seriously, it's a complete clusterfuck lol. MAD KOF is well known in KOF but he's not an Injustice player (which made it that more fun to watch an Injustice scrub understanding the concept of space control in a game he doesn't play). And the Black Adam is pretty bad. But I have to preface by saying it's pre-patch Black Adam so you didn't need to be good with him back then. His Lighting was +, all dive kicks were safe and uncheckable, and he could spam backdash to get away from everything (even most chases wouldn't work). So if you remember back then all BA players ever did was spam dive kicks because nobody knew what to do against it. (btw This will also happen in MKX. Even top Injustice players and top MK9 players won't immediately know what to do vs X character/variation move or mixup. That's what training mode is for.) These are NOT tips for the BA matchup. Now you can simply block a Dive Kick and punish or check BA for free. But back then you couldn't.

Ok so like everyone else vs pre-patch Black Adam MAD KOF gets blown up first match. But he immediately understands where BA and Nightwing want to be and what space they can cover.

Match 2, start of round he starts with a neutral jump read. This would've beat a dash in, a jump/dive or b23. The read fails but it doesn't matter: He already understands what he needs to do. Which is control the air space BA wants to occupy and take advantage of screen space that BA doesn't have control over. Also take note BA often jumps back or backdashes at the start of round range because he can't zone safely from there and b23 is risky because it can be whiff punished easily.

MAD KOF quickly adapts by reacting to BA jumps and/or reading the dive kicks:

Notice how he's always reacting to the jump not the dive kick, but he is meeting the future trajectory of far dive kick that isn't present at the time of the read. This means that jumping forward is riskier than neutral jumping or jumping back. Because if Black Adam didn't dive kick and did J1 or J2 or delayed Dive Kick instead he would've beat NW's read. Unless you jump earlier and meet him before he gets a chance to do anything.

Ok now he's just trolling him.. But again look at how he's jumping outside of the "dive kick pizza" and throwing his own pizza back at where he thinks BA will be or could be.

Visualizing Black Adam's Attack Vectors:

Ground options

When you put all his options together you can see it creates a "triangle shape" and it's very similar when he's in the air.

Air options

By "Air Space Control" I mean controlling air space before you visually see them jump. For example it could be throwing a random up batarang/air gun shots. But of course doing this too much vs Black Adam is risky because he could whiff punish you with black magic if your projectile has slow recovery. But still keep it in mind vs other characters. Controlling a lot of air space can limit a character's mobility and discourage the use of jumps and air specials (make them focus on the ground game).

Just outside of b23 range:

Black Adam doesn't want to stay at that range very long. Watch any match, you'll notice that when BA is at that range he will either crouch in confusion (usually when cornered) or immediately spam backdash/back jumps to be able to start zoning again. Only the more aggressive and footsie based BA players will dare to dash in, stay put and call your dash/read or make a gutsy read themselves. So if you have a good move to chase/punish dashes and jumps, this would be a good range to read those.

You can read the forward dash, the forward jump, the backdash or the back jump. But some characters have big "area of effect" moves that can attack full screen horizontally or vertically. In which case you can 2 for 1 your reads. e.g. Deathstroke's air gun shot would work as a reaction vs forward jump, neutral jump and back jump. But it would lose to Black Magic as a pure read that failed (you jump as a read but you air gun shot on reaction is what I mean). And Nightwing's Flying Grayson would probably hit BA out of any dash or jump attempt. etc.

Full screen and up close distance can be adv. or disadv. it's character specific.


You have to visualize similar shapes for interactables. And just like with Supers, you don't have to use an interactable to take advantage of it. You can simply represent the threat of it (grants you new "attack vectors" that you normally don't have access to and your opponent needs to consider/respect) or you can willingly give up the interactable adv. to bait or counter it. But that could be a completely different post.

I hope this helps more players understand what people mean by visualizing/controlling space and how to watch the screen when you're playing. Understanding each character's options and how their relevance is affected in adv. and disadv. ranges can help you make better reads and react faster to stuff.

This post is fucking incredible and major props for all the work you did to make this. This is essentially the way I need to start thinking to improve my game thank you. I've been stuck in a rut and all i've been doing is going into training mode trying to learn set ups or improve on my set ups when i need to start thinking about how i should be playing the game instead. Thank you for this post, i've already started improving controlling space just trying this stuff out in the lab for an hour. Also props to @Protagonist_1 this thread is an awesome idea

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

@Vulcan Hades

I'd be lying if I didn't tell you that that match helped make NW stand out to me (I was Grundy main at the time). I know exactly what you mean. Great job On the gifs and the post overall. I miss graphics like this.

I feel each character needs something like that drawn out for them.

@Protagonist_1
I do the same thing. NW dash isn't consistent enough to back dash consistently. So I mbdc also

 

[Axel_Redd]

Yeah, I think it's fine to use the term like that. It names the system mechanic that's in play. There's no real graceful way to say it other than "trip gaurding" to be honest.

how about "trip punish"??

 

[Rip Torn]

how about "trip punish"??

I like it!

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I'm glad some find it helpful. I will try to make other posts like that for MK9 and USF4 too in the future. But right now I want to continue expanding on the same Injustice situation (I promise this will be the last time I use Black Adam as an example lol)

Same situation, same range, but with Killer Frost instead of Nightwing:

If Killer Frost has the life lead and momentum, then it's more likely that Black Adam will dash in, jump in or mash MB something because he needs to reverse momentum/come back. And KF doesn't need to take the risk of sliding in (she can chill and react to what BA does or make a read).

If BA has the life lead, then it's more likely that he'll want to jump back/backdash and zone to protect his lead.

PR Balrog slides because he wants to get in and because he feels like BA wants to backdash, dash in or press a button.

Finally PR Rog understands Godspeed always back jumps at that specific range vs KF (since it's a relatively safe option and has huge reward on a straight projectile/slide read):

Notice that BA is at b23 range and even d1~hands range, but he still doesn't want to be there. Since KF is a vortex character with a parry (and meter) she has a big advantage up close.

Even though jumping back is Black Adam's best or most logical option in this specific situation/MU, a top BA player might dash in, jump in, buffer d1~hands or throw a random unsafe move instead. Mostly because of "Yomi", which is the thought process that goes on in each players minds as a match progresses. The more two players know each others tendencies and the more they understand the matchup, the weirder some of their decision will seem. But in their head it makes perfect sense because of whatever read and conditioning they both have done.

Yomi, or as Aris likes to call it: "Spaghetti mind games" can get pretty intense with "multiple layers of lasagna". It's kind of hard to explain. If only I had a funny gif to illustrate what yomi is...

^All of those considerations might've gone through both players' heads in like half a second. But to the viewer it will just seem like another random slide that shouldn't have hit lol.

 

[The PantyChrist]

Frost gifs? I think that's @Rickyraws department

 

[Amplified$hotz]

I'm glad some find it helpful. I will try to make other posts like that for MK9 and USF4 too in the future. But right now I want to continue expanding on the same Injustice situation (I promise this will be the last time I use Black Adam as an example lol)

Same situation, same range, but with Killer Frost instead of Nightwing:

PR Balrog slides because he wants to get in and because he feels like BA wants to backdash, dash in or press a button.

Finally PR Rog understands Godspeed always back jumps at that specific range vs KF (since it's a relatively safe option and has huge reward on a straight projectile/slide read):

Notice that BA is at b23 range and even d1~hands range, but he still doesn't want to be there. Since KF is a vortex character with a parry she has advantage up close.

Even though jumping back is Black Adam's best or most logical option in this specific situation/MU, a top BA player might dash straight up, jump in, buffer d1~hands or throw a random unsafe move instead. Mostly because of "Yomi", which is the thought process that goes on in each players minds as a match progresses. The more two players know each others tendencies and the more they understand the matchup, the weirder some of their decision will seem. But in their head it makes perfect sense because of whatever read and conditioning they both have done.

Yomi, or as Aris likes to call it: "Spaghetti mind games" can get pretty intense. It's kind of hard to explain in words. If only I had a funny gif to illustrate what yomi is...

^All of those considerations might've gone through both players' heads in like half a second. But to the viewer it will just seem like another random slide that shouldn't have hit lol.

Can you do Green Lantern next? I feel like this makes or breaks his viability.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Can you do Green Lantern next? I feel like this makes or breaks his viability.

You should be able to pick random select vs random select and visualize it yourself. If you can't then I have completely failed in explaining this concept lol.

You just have to know what their moves and best normals are and imagine the hitboxes + trajectory of those attacks. With GL you have his infamous b1, f3, Lantern's Might, his big horizontal Turbine, ground straight rocket and air rocket that shoot diagonally down.

It's up to you to figure out how and when those tools can be used in whatever matchup/situation. And if those moves are safe or unsafe at X and Y distances. And base your reads on that.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

@Vulcan Hades I wish people thought about cage this way in mk9. I beat many a player because they were simply running away from me. Once you start picturing his normals like that and stop being so scared of him, you can actually make it rather difficult to get in.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

You should be able to pick random select vs random select and visualize it yourself. If you can't then I have completely failed in explaining this concept lol.

You just have to know what their moves and best normals are and imagine the hitboxes + trajectory of those attacks. With GL you have his infamous b1, f3, Lantern's Might, his big horizontal Turbine, ground straight rocket and air rocket that shoot diagonally down.

It's up to you to figure out how and when those tools can be used in whatever matchup/situation. And if those moves are safe or unsafe at X and Y distances. And base your reads on that.

Thanks a bunch! I'll be practicing this with Joker and GL. In training right now.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Quick post before I go to sleep. Just a bit of SF this time: Fuudo (Fei Long) vs Gamerbee (Adon) in AE 2012.

Fei Long walks in and out of Adon's far standing hk range. He might be trying to whiff punish it. But since he didn't react with anything I assume he was looking for something else.

The neutral jumps are reads. Adon neutral jumps because he thinks Fei will Rekka which would get him a full combo punish. And I assume Fei can also punish Jaguar Kick off a neutral jump normal.

When Fuudo sees Adon land, he is convinced Gamerbee won't immediately neutral jump again so he tries to Rekka as he lands. But Gamerbee reads it perfectly with a lv1 focus attack which was another read vs rekka. You could say it's a neutral game setup.

Fuudo is known for his inhuman reactions. But what a lot of people don't realize is that he's in reality extremely setup heavy. This is an example of such setup:

Fuudo often neutral jumps then walks back at this range. He is out of Rising Jaguar (DP) range. And by walking back he moves out of far s.hk range. Which leaves Adon with the unsafe option of jumping in/dashing in, walk up s.hk or doing a usually pretty safe Jaguar Kick. Gamerbee doesn't really see Fuudo walk back, he sees the neutral jump distance and feels it's a good spacing to throw it out since it could catch backdash and Fuudo will probably not be able to react to it from there. But since Fuudo walks back a bit and it's a setup, he is able to reaction DP it.

This time Fuudo is unable to react in time even though he is further away. This is either because he didn't willingly set it up or because he wasn't looking for it at that range. So it becomes much more difficult to react to.

Actually looking at it again, Fuudo might have tried to Rekka or Chicken Wing. Either way he got hit during startup and wasn't expecting a JK from Adon.

This little sequence below shows that Fuudo isn't always reacting to Jaguar Kick but reacting to anything he sees. This is another read setup where Fei does cr.mk then walks back. He was clearly expecting Gamerbee to throw a Jaguar Kick since it would get Adon out of the corner and in Fei Long's face. But Gamerbee just throws a fs.hk which makes Fuudo flinch.

Another "reaction setup":

Fuudo is pushing Guile away with this frame trap. Pushing him at max Rekka/focus attack range where Guile/Dieminion feels really comfortable throwing safe sonic booms (in this case EX sonic boom was probably a read that Fei would focus attack). They are normally really hard to react to at this distance. But not only was Fuudo looking for it at that specific range, he set Guile up and he was already buffering Rekka which is why he was able to react with Super so quickly. (He only needed to react with qcf+p because of the already inputted qcf)


And this is probably the sickest example of Yomi and courage/footsie knowledge I could possibly find:

Gamerbee is on the ropes, he could die from a couple of chip damage moves or one move/normal on hit. But he wakes up with focus attack dash cancel forward into low hitconfirm FADC Ultra 2...

Gamerbee knows he won't die from one blocked EX Rekka so he reads that Fuudo won't go for it. He knows he could die from a throw but he also knows that Fuudo knows he has two meter. He is convinced that Fuudo will play it really safe (considering his life lead and position advantage) and that he will try to bait a desperate DP from Adon and/or meaty something as a read that Adon would jump/tech to avoid throw. So he focus dashes forward. And since Fei Long is walking back looking to bait something, Gamerbee is able to catch him off guard.

Total mindfuck. Commentators and the crowd were going ape shit I'm sure.


Next time I want to analyze DJT vs REO (MK9 evo 2013). I think it's a really interesting match in terms of yomi/reads. It's a great lesson in zoning and repositioning from REO, and a great lesson of patience from DJT. And just like with KF vs BA, you can also sense this distance at which Kabal feels uncomfortable. You can sense the urge to come in or reposition and you can feel the yomi and hesitations going on for both players. I was thinking of only looking at what happened in those precise mid-range moments because that's where the magic and all the sick reads happen.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Quick post before I go to sleep. Just a bit of SF this time: Fuudo (Fei Long) vs Gamerbee (Adon) in AE 2012.

Fei Long walks in and out of Adon's far standing hk range. He might be trying to whiff punish it. But since he didn't react with anything I assume he was looking for something else.

The neutral jumps are reads. Adon neutral jumps because he thinks Fei will Rekka which would get him a full combo punish. And I assume Fei can also punish Jaguar Kick off a neutral jump normal.

When Fuudo sees Adon land, he is convinced Gamerbee won't immediately neutral jump again so he tries to Rekka as he lands. But Gamerbee reads it perfectly with a lv1 focus attack which was another read vs rekka. You could say it's a neutral game setup.

Fuudo is known for his inhuman reactions. But what a lot of people don't realize is that he's in reality extremely setup heavy. This is an example of such setup:

Fuudo often neutral jumps then walks back at this range. He is out of Rising Jaguar (DP) range. And by walking back he moves out of far s.hk range. Which leaves Adon with the unsafe option of jumping in/dashing in, walk up s.hk or doing a usually pretty safe Jaguar Kick. Gamerbee doesn't really see Fuudo walk back, he sees the neutral jump distance and feels it's a good spacing to throw it out since it could catch backdash and Fuudo will probably not be able to react to it from there. But since Fuudo walks back a bit and it's a setup, he is able to reaction DP it.

This time Fuudo is unable to react in time even though he is further away. This is either because he didn't willingly set it up or because he wasn't looking for it at that range. So it becomes much more difficult to react to.

Actually looking at it again, Fuudo might have tried to Rekka or Chicken Wing. Either way he got hit during startup and wasn't expecting a JK from Adon.

This little sequence below shows that Fuudo isn't always reacting to Jaguar Kick but reacting to anything he sees. This is another read setup where Fei does cr.mk then walks back. He was clearly expecting Gamerbee to throw a Jaguar Kick since it would get Adon out of the corner and in Fei Long's face. But Gamerbee just throws a fs.hk which makes Fuudo flinch.

Another "reaction setup":

Fuudo is pushing Guile away with this frame trap. Pushing him at max Rekka/focus attack range where Guile/Dieminion feels really comfortable throwing safe sonic booms (in this case EX sonic boom was probably a read that Fei would focus attack). They are normally really hard to react to at this distance. But not only was Fuudo looking for it at that specific range, he set Guile up and he was already buffering Rekka which is why he was able to react with Super so quickly. (He only needed to react with qcf+p because of the already inputted qcf)


And this is probably the sickest example of Yomi and courage/footsie knowledge I could possibly find:

Gamerbee is on the ropes, he could die from a couple of chip damage moves or one move/normal on hit. But he wakes up with focus attack dash cancel forward into low hitconfirm FADC Ultra 2...

Gamerbee knows he won't die from one blocked EX Rekka so he reads that Fuudo won't go for it. He is convinced that Fuudo will play it really safe (considering his life lead and position advantage) and that he will try to bait a desperate DP from Adon. So he focus dashes forward. And since Fei Long is walking back looking to bait something, Gamerbee is able to catch him off guard.

Total mindfuck. Commentators and the crowd were going ape shit I'm sure.


Next time I want to analyze DJT vs REO (MK9 evo 2013). I think it's a really interesting match in terms of yomi/reads. It's a great lesson in zoning and repositioning from REO, and a great lesson of patience from DJT. And just like with KF vs BA, you can also sense this distance at which Kabal feels uncomfortable. You can sense the urge to come in or reposition and you can feel the yomi and hesitations going on for both players. I was thinking of only looking at what happened in those precise mid-range moments because that's where the magic and all the sick reads happen.

Make a new thread dedicated to your match analysis. They are amazing.

 

[Killusion]

Amazing thread.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Most characters have dash in punish "setups" by whiffing a move and buffering a special. Ex: MMH's pilliar= d1/f2, Aquaman's FTD= d1/ b12, Zatanna's ring or PM = s3, etc. So with this in mind, whats the best option for punishing forward dashes for every character? Im sure everyone has one.