The Future Of Law Enforcement- A UMK11 Robocop Guide

[CrazyFingers]

Yeah, but there's like 4 people who play RoboCop, so we can't be shutting each other out lol.

In a complete void, I can agree with everything you've said so far. On paper, that all seems totally believable. But then when you put those concepts into MK11, with all its nonsense and anti-zoning tools and frame traps and tick throws and

Heres the thing though, it all DOES work in MK11. I do all of it literally every day against people who i have extensively grinded the MU with. From solid players to straight up top players, for me i have proven the concepts here. Obviously i cant just say "well ive done it" and expect you to take my word and agree with me but at the end of the day, thats what im basing all of my knowledge and opinions on, my experience playing the character. Just like im sure thats what youre basing yours off of, we have had fundamentally different expriences with the character clearly.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Heres the thing though, it all DOES work in MK11. I do all of it literally every day against people who i have extensively grinded the MU with. From solid players to straight up top players, for me i have proven the concepts here. Obviously i cant just say "well ive done it" and expect you to take my word and agree with me but at the end of the day, thats what im basing all of my knowledge and opinions on, my experience playing the character. Just like im sure thats what youre basing yours off of, we have had fundamentally different expriences with the character clearly.

Do you have any footage of these things in action? I thought I had some footage on Twitch, but everything I can find is from MKX. I would genuinely like to see how you're approaching some of these matchups. I dropped RoboCop and picked up Terminator and Rambo, and still play Noob a bit, and it's just a night-and-day difference.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Do you have any footage of these things in action? I thought I had some footage on Twitch, but everything I can find is from MKX. I would genuinely like to see how you're approaching some of these matchups. I dropped RoboCop and picked up Terminator and Rambo, and still play Noob a bit, and it's just a night-and-day difference.

I can record some stuff, i know i have a set from around when he first released on Ragnarok's youtube but that would be a very unrefined version of the character.

 

[CrazyFingers]

@RoboCop this was a couple days ago, skip to 13 minutes

 

[Pyrosis]

The only thing that I don't like about this guide is that it may potentially create more Robocop players. Good job.

 

[CrazyFingers]

The only thing that I don't like about this guide is that it may potentially create more Robocop players. Good job.

Haha who knows man. The character isnt easy and my gameplay with him is still improving every day so we'll see what happens i suppose.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

@RoboCop this was a couple days ago, skip to 13 minutes

I'm still watching, but seriously, how did Baraka manage to do less damage with his d2 KB than RoboCop did lol, around 19:30.

 

[CrazyFingers]

I'm still watching, but seriously, how did Baraka manage to do less damage with his d2 KB than RoboCop did lol, around 19:30.

He was baiting breakway. If i broke there i ate like 47% lmao

 

[Pyrosis]

Also, I totally agree that if Robocop did even slightly more damage than he does now on touch coupled with his movement/neutral/zoning then he'd be pretty busted. 20ish percent is still ok to average damage, especially considering Robocop gets to chose where you get sent to oki.

I still whole-heartedly believe Shao Kahn is still worse than Robocop, if it makes you feel any better.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I feel like I spend so much time debating the damage issue that my real argument gets lot in the mix. The issue isn't just his damage, but how he gets it. For having to commit to unsafe highs, he gets no reward. While other characters can convert almost any stray hit into at least 30%+ anywhere on screen and off of safe loopable pressure and mixups, RoboCop is left dealing less than 20% damage WITH METER if he wants to limit his risk. I'd be fine with his damage output if he could reliable access his higher-damage kombos. But having 24% 1-bar limited to terrible normals that risk eating a d2 KB is straight bad design, bordering on a straight "fuck you" to RoboCop players.

Shao Kahn is in a similar boat. Dude gets crazy damage when he hits, he just can't fucking hit anything lol. But poor RoboCop can't even break 24% when he hits with his most optimal mid-screen tools.

I have played entire 4-hour sets without ever launching my opponent with RoboCop. I won a ft20 without ever actually komboing my opponent (other than canceling into Flamethrower). Ignoring whether he's good or not for a moment, just from a fun perspective, that design sucks.

especially considering Robocop gets to chose where you get sent to oki.

I'm not sure what you mean here, unless you're referring to his command grab?

@CrazyFingers I just finished the RoboCop section of that video. I think that showed two pretty heavy MU extremes lol. I was shocked Dink missed two blocked Flamethrower punishes. And Cetrion is a pretty good example of a character who just does what RoboCop does, but better. She's got better zoning, better rushdown, better strings. His only real strength in this MU is that he's RoboCop.

 

[Pyrosis]

The issue being with him having a hard time confirming into low damage is that it's not really necessary to win. In essence and I believe @CrazyFingers would agree here... Robocop just wins with spacing and neutral, which is a perfectly viable strategy. I think this may just fundamentally be at odds with what you want the character to be, judging from how you're describing feeling let down by him.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

The issue being with him having a hard time confirming into low damage is that it's not really necessary to win. In essence and I believe @CrazyFingers would agree here... Robocop just wins with spacing and neutral, which is a perfectly viable strategy. I think this may just fundamentally be at odds with what you want the character to be, judging from how you're describing feeling let down by him.

You can't win with just spacing and neutral, you literally need damage. And I'm not saying you "can't win" with RoboCop, I'm saying he has to work so much harder than the other characters in this game that it's not worth it. It's like Oberyn vs The Mountain on Game of Thrones. Bronn even summed it up with something along the lines of, "Sure, I could fight and dance around and maybe even win. But one mistake, and that's it." And sure enough, after all that fancy footwork, Oberyn made that one mistake...

That's what playing RoboCop is like. He's gotta play this weird keepaway game where he's got to constantly respect his opponent's options but they don't really need to respect his. And you certainly can whittle people down. But one mistake, and all that work is undone. You spend 30 seconds hacking someone down by 20% and then they tag you with a stray hit and now they're up by 10% just like that.

I'd say, if you don't think he's bottom 3, who would you put below him? Shao Kahn and what two other characters?

 

[Pyrosis]

I think that you can definitely win with spacing and neutral control. Robocop dominates these in a way that most character's can't... I'm not saying he's one of the best characters in the game by any means, but constantly being out just out of reach of retaliation or you being the one choosing when exactly you engage in close range is very powerful in MK11. This is a large portion of what makes Fujin and Rain so strong in neutral.

I disagree that you need to have very good neutral control and zoning options AND above average combo damage. I think this concept is made in not only MK11 but several other fighting games.

IMO. Shao Kahn is the worst character in the game by a pretty large margin, D'vorah is second worst since she wasn't great before and the patch actively hurt some of her decently effective options, then the next worst character after that is probably either Skarlet or Robocop but probably Robocop since the poke jailing benefitted Skarlet a lot more.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

this is very familiar to early days with Jade. I understand the frustration of playing a character who converts for "big" 15%-20% combos, even when you have other tools to back it up. But I guess that's just the way Robo is designed.

 

[ismael4790]

I recently picked up mk11 to play with some friends, and learned Robocop. If this character had been available at launch, maybe I wouldn't have dropped mk11 last year.

I can see the flaws people talk about, but this character feels solid in general, honest, and is very interesting to play. If he happens to be bottom tier, sadly, I think it is because everyone else in this game has too many tools in comparison and should be brought to the level of balance where he is.

 

[Malec]

I have to agree with Pyrosis and CrazyFingers here. I think Robocop is fine and the combination of his movement/spacing, zoning and strike/throw game is enough to win against good opponents.
The only buffs I would give him is the range of his u3 and making f32 and/or f21 better on block, like -3 or -2

 

[Deleted member 5032]

The only buffs I would give him is the range of his u3 and making f32 and/or f21 better on block, like -3 or -2

Just allowing his u2/u3 to hit after flawless blocking would be a big step in the right direction, but that goes for like half the kast.

 

[ismael4790]

I have to agree with Pyrosis and CrazyFingers here. I think Robocop is fine and the combination of his movement/spacing, zoning and strike/throw game is enough to win against good opponents.
The only buffs I would give him is the range of his u3 and making f32 and/or f21 better on block, like -3 or -2

What about b2 being a mid?

 

[Malec]

What about b2 being a mid?

Sure I take it, but I never use or try to use b2 in the neutral, I just punish with b2 if its possible, like sub zero slide for example.

 

[Obly]

I haven't read the guide thoroughly yet, but definitely will. But I didn't want to wait to say thank you for writing it. There's such a malaise over the NRS community these days; virtually no one (outside of a few truly dedicated, god-like content creators) is creating and sharing this kind of thoughtful, detailed analysis anymore. And to do this for a character most everyone is convinced is shite is a noble act indeed.

Just a couple high-level comments for now. One, I notice the guide is mostly focused on a neutral-control heavy, bleed-them-out approach to playing Robocop. That's definitely one way to play him, and with the sad state his other tools are in, maybe right now it's the only viable way. I do think it makes him playable, not top tier, but definitely not trash. It also feels one-dimensional (for me anyway) and I hope NRS doesn't leave him like this.

Because he also has a bunch of tools that get little use right now, but if they were buffed just a bit, could turn him into a real stagger pressure monster (active and reactive patrol, terminal strip [command grab], electric shield) and a setup master (cheval trap, upgraded grenades). I've seen many complaints about Robo's low damage, but if his setups actually worked, the damage would be there. Using his tear gas grenade, he has a corner combo that gets 43% damage off one bar, without KBs or FB. Never landed it on a human, though I have on an AI opponent, so it's not really viable atm but could be with a little help from the devs.

Two, just a random comment about his defense. Yeah his u2/u3 hitboxes are awful. Truly frustrating AF. Definitely something adding to his downfall under close pressure. But to say he has no defense isn't true. His riot shield might be the best overall parry in the game. With the latest patch, he blocks every fireball-type projectile there is, so only a few characters can now zone him at all. And he parries non-low melee hits with the same move, for chunky damage and a KB--who else has that? Baiting people into attacking his shield is definitely supposed to be part of his game plan, both in footsies and under pressure (blocked poke~riot shield, or reversal shield when the oppo is slightly negative and trying to steal their turn, catches a lot of aggressive players).

Also on defense, he's got one of the best anti-air tools in the game, just as good as Rain's (just not as much damage). Very fast, covers a ton of horizontal and vertical space, gets you a juggle if you spend the bar, and extends combos in the corner. It's a great move.

I really do hope they beef up his u2/u3 hitboxes, but with his other strong defensive tools, I do wonder if they were making him weaker there by design.

Anyway, thanks again for writing the guide--will read soon and try to make some substantive comments!

 

[M2Dave]

The only thing that I don't like about this guide is that it may potentially create more Robocop players. Good job.

The guide is articulate and meticulous yet excessively optimistic. When Robocop was initially released, I anticipated that he was going to be a strong character, but when I fought against Cetrion, Geras, Jacqui, Liu Kang, and other top tier characters, I was struggling against competition equal to my skill level. The primary issue with Robocop is that when plan A, which involves zoning with the low auto, fails to work effectively because of projectile parries, reflects, or absorptions, plan B does not exist. Unless the zoning is broken, this type of "all zoning or nothing" character has never been good in fighting games.

The damage comparisons to characters like Jade and Joker are also misunderstood and invalid. Jade's b+3 string is superior to any string that Robocop has. She also has one of the best uppercuts in the game and functional reversal attacks. Because of custom moves, she now has access to arguably one of the best special moves in the game in Delia's Dance. Why do you think that Jade players stopped complaining all of a sudden? LOL.

As far as Joker is concerned, the comparisons to Robocop are flawed and uninformed. f+1 and f+2 are some of the best strings in the game. He can also cancel these strings into a safe special move. He has an amazing uppercut, a long-range d+4, a launching jab string, a cancel-able fatal blow, and a krushing blow on the forward throw from the cancel-able fatal blow. When you have a plethora of tools, you can afford to have low damage output. But because of custom moves, Joker does not even have low damage output. LOL. Kapow!

There is a reason that nobody is using or winning with this character. Sonic Fox tried and even they could not win, which is all you need to know about the current state of Robocop.

 

[Pyrosis]

I haven't read the guide thoroughly yet, but definitely will. But I didn't want to wait to say thank you for writing it. There's such a malaise over the NRS community these days; virtually no one (outside of a few truly dedicated, god-like content creators) is creating and sharing this kind of thoughtful, detailed analysis anymore. And to do this for a character most everyone is convinced is shite is a noble act indeed.

Just a couple high-level comments for now. One, I notice the guide is mostly focused on a neutral-control heavy, bleed-them-out approach to playing Robocop. That's definitely one way to play him, and with the sad state his other tools are in, maybe right now it's the only viable way. I do think it makes him playable, not top tier, but definitely not trash. It also feels one-dimensional (for me anyway) and I hope NRS doesn't leave him like this.

Because he also has a bunch of tools that get little use right now, but if they were buffed just a bit, could turn him into a real stagger pressure monster (active and reactive patrol, terminal strip [command grab], electric shield) and a setup master (cheval trap, upgraded grenades). I've seen many complaints about Robo's low damage, but if his setups actually worked, the damage would be there. Using his tear gas grenade, he has a corner combo that gets 43% damage off one bar, without KBs or FB. Never landed it on a human, though I have on an AI opponent, so it's not really viable atm but could be with a little help from the devs.

Two, just a random comment about his defense. Yeah his u2/u3 hitboxes are awful. Truly frustrating AF. Definitely something adding to his downfall under close pressure. But to say he has no defense isn't true. His riot shield might be the best overall parry in the game. With the latest patch, he blocks every fireball-type projectile there is, so only a few characters can now zone him at all. And he parries non-low melee hits with the same move, for chunky damage and a KB--who else has that? Baiting people into attacking his shield is definitely supposed to be part of his game plan, both in footsies and under pressure (blocked poke~riot shield, or reversal shield when the oppo is slightly negative and trying to steal their turn, catches a lot of aggressive players).

Also on defense, he's got one of the best anti-air tools in the game, just as good as Rain's (just not as much damage). Very fast, covers a ton of horizontal and vertical space, gets you a juggle if you spend the bar, and extends combos in the corner. It's a great move.

I really do hope they beef up his u2/u3 hitboxes, but with his other strong defensive tools, I do wonder if they were making him weaker there by design.

Anyway, thanks again for writing the guide--will read soon and try to make some substantive comments!

The only parry that I think is better is Rambo's. Of course it can't negate projectiles like Robo's but he has other ways to deal with that.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

Great read !
Really solid guide, very pleasing to read, good formating and choice of colors, this is GREAT !

I think you're still a bit too optimistic with the effectiveness of all those tools. I agree that Robocop has strong tools but... I mean when I'm not playing the game and just think about his different moves I'm always like "yeah this isn't that bad at all" but when in a match, the flaws of some tools appear and i'm like "What am I supposed to do with this ?". I admit that frustration can amplify my judgement when I'm in a game, but some moves that look good on paper just might not work as effectively in a match.

I'd like to add some things : b32 can be a good kounter/punish when you are near an opponent and walking backwards, the opponent might try to press buttons or dash to close the gap. b3 has a very decent range and b32 on hit has a lot of frame advantage, and you can setup a cheval trap/shoulder grenade or backdash far enough to begin your zoning/keepaway game.

22 and its follow up 223 are bad. Slower than standing 1, deals less damage and less easily hit confirmable.

OCP Charge can be useful to escape corner if the opponent isn't right in your face and if he's about to close the gap.

I don't run flamethrower in my current variation, so I use cobra canon enhanced after f32 and 121 to cash out "big" damage (big damage for Robo is ~20%) and back to fullscreen. However it is not breakaway immune and since breakaway is the dumbest mechanic in the history of fighting game, they can break very early and can punish you, and it does not require a fast or long reaching move, no no no no, every character can use their optimal starter to punish you for... well, hitting them like we're supposed to. I'm still relying on the lack of match up knowledge for this one.

- Don't use shoulder canon against Shang's Smoke shake, the move will trigger the unblockable effect of the Shake. Same thing applies for cheval trap. Yes, last time I read the Smoke shake, threw a poison canister to stun Shang, and at the moment where Shang was supposed to be stun, the shake was activated and I took the damage. Amplify canon shoulder (the mine) does not trigger the shake. I don't know about the electric grenade but you should not use this move anyways, it's really bad.

- Flamethrower has a great hitbox and a loooot of active frames, it's great to catch jumping opponent. Yes it is not optimal, just 6% (you can AMP for 12% but the dumb breakaway makes it punishable on hit so watch out) but you have enough frame advantage to backdash to safety. Flamethrower anti air is an option worth using when you don't want to risk a AA jab against a jump kick and just play it safe.

- No words on the parry ? I think the parry kicks ass. Nullifies projectiles and can make some characters almost not threatening at all at fullscreen range. The parry is so good it's enough to make terminal strip not worth picking (why do they even conflict by the way ?).

And finally some of my opinions on the other moves :

• I don't like terminal strip at all, I hate the input and the hitbox is real bad. i've never succesfully landed the KB in a match because of how short the hitbox is despite the read I made on my opponent rolling (it's kinda like blood lunge where I miss the KB a lot too because of the extra range on the active frames)
• Cheval trap can be really strong if you know how to set it up, I love using it.
• Active & reactive patrol : NOPE

 

[ismael4790]

By the way, I'm curious: why everybody seems to prefer bf2 shoulder cannon insted of the default bf2? I'm just exploring the character, so idk.
They are both highs, and although shoulder cannon is faster and gives plus frames on block, the other rifle has literally fullscreen pushback if they block the first hit, which is no joke at all.

I found myself replacing shoulder cannon with other specials to have different gameplans (like caltrops or shield charge) because the regular bf2 seems to do the job.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

By the way, I'm curious: why everybody seems to prefer bf2 shoulder cannon insted of the default bf2? I'm just exploring the character, so idk.
They are both highs, and although shoulder cannon is faster and gives plus frames on block, the other rifle has literally fullscreen pushback if they block the first hit, which is no joke at all.

I found myself replacing shoulder cannon with other specials to have different gameplans (like caltrops or shield charge) because the regular bf2 seems to do the job.

The only reason I would replace Cobra Cannon with Wrist Rocket is if I'm against a character or player who will be spending a lot of time airborne. Wrist Rocket is much more consistent as an anti-air.

That said, I might try out Low Shot, Flamethrower, Air Charge. That way I'll keep the Cobra Cannon and still have an effective answer for those fuck-neutral characters.