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General/Other The Deathstroke Anti-Nerf Coalition

Last night didnt bode well for this coalition. Aris made this game look like a joke using Deathstroke against top players, lol a random tekken player winning with cheese.
aaaaaa.......u know he may have one the whole tournament but he lost matches still. Thats not worthy of a nerf.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
So fort hose people who think this character needs a nerf let me as you somthing?

A character who can control the whole screen with his zoning sounds threatening, yes? Now what if that characters zoning does not knock the opponent over unless using an iaqs or EX rifle? What if that character has very little moves up close and from afar leaving him with little options to use. What if once up close that said character has trouble punishing a lot of pressure strings and most of his strings being unsafe on block and somewhat slow start up? What if I told you said character gets punished for a block quick shot from your opponent if he/she is half screen (full screen depending on the character)?

Still think this character needs a nerf?
 

Amadeous

Apprentice
Seriously though, can anyone help me prove to my teacher that Deathstroke was meant to be played this way?

It is obvious but I want some developer comment or something about him, he thinks it is some glitch that needs to be patched and I want to prove him wrong it is really bugging me.
 

9.95

Champion
Seriously though, can anyone help me prove to my teacher that Deathstroke was meant to be played this way?

It is obvious but I want some developer comment or something about him, he thinks it is some glitch that needs to be patched and I want to prove him wrong it is really bugging me.

Here's a link to last night's match, Tom Brady vs. Hitoshura. Brady shows off how to avoid DS's zoning, showing that it's avoidable and that Deathstroke DOES NOT need to be nerfed. Show this to your teacher.

http://www.twitch.tv/kombatnetwork/c/2206722
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Here's a link to last night's match, Tom Brady vs. Hitoshura. Brady shows off how to avoid DS's zoning, showing that it's avoidable and that Deathstroke DOES NOT need to be nerfed. Show this to your teacher.

http://www.twitch.tv/kombatnetwork/c/2206722
Yo, I'm such a scrub, lol! Real talk though, I had zero superman mu experience and realized I NEED to play lamer than him. That and hes safe on like everything! :C
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
While I am not asking for nerfs, I find the downplaying and the sycophantic, mutual back patting really obnoxious at this stage. This "anti-nerf-coalition" needs to put more time into enlightening the unenlightened masses than simply existing to take a holier than thou stance. M2dave is just trolling as usual, and nothing constructive is coming of any of this, just poor understanding of the game and character's (deathstroke) mechanics.
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
This seemed to be as good of a place as any to post this. THTB and Zer0 Hundr3d were having some really good matches, and I realized it was a great example of not only intelligent DS zoning, but also of how to get through intelligent zoning.
The actual zoning starts at 0:34. GL gradually backs DS into a corner and manages to get in some solid damage before DS gets out and re-initiates the zoning war. Hopefully you can see that it's not impossible to get around a good DS player's zoning, even if it is difficult. Yeah, THTB lost that match, but he'd already won multiple matches against both Zer0's and my Deathstrokes using those exact strategies. I think dealing with Deathstroke's zoning is on par with dealing with Nightwing's or Flash's rushdown; it's just a difference of space. Anyway, hopefully this video will help a few pro-nerfers see the light. Thanks for watching!
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
I now understand why people despise 09'ers. 2013'ers are even worse. Fucking cry babies. Life isn't fair; nor are FGs.
It's really sad. It's these same people who pull the plug then write me "sry i dont fight spammers." They're beyond new school in the worst way possible, they don't understand the basics of the game, let alone the basics of zoning. They could never marvel at a Valle/Daigo fireball war and understand why it's so incredible, or be impressed with Dieminion's mindblowing sonic boom game.

The only thing that makes me sad is that some of the real/good players from MK9 are joining this complaintrain. I don't know if it's because MK9 was their first game, and now they have to deal with real zoning? A month in this should be long past, methinks.
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
The actual zoning starts at 0:34. GL gradually backs DS into a corner and manages to get in some solid damage before DS gets out and re-initiates the zoning war.
You're right. This is exactly what people need to do. The patient dashing, ducking, walking and ducking some more... yeah, most people aren't willing to do that because they're impatient and bad.

I said it in another thread and got blown up for it (shocker) but if you've ever played Zangief VS Guile in the last 20 years, you have the patience required to get in on Deathstroke. He's just another zoner, people. Jesus, Kenshi was a million times worse! His primary zoning tool was both essentially unpunishable and could have armor.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
This seemed to be as good of a place as any to post this. THTB and Zer0 Hundr3d were having some really good matches, and I realized it was a great example of not only intelligent DS zoning, but also of how to get through intelligent zoning.
The actual zoning starts at 0:34. GL gradually backs DS into a corner and manages to get in some solid damage before DS gets out and re-initiates the zoning war. Hopefully you can see that it's not impossible to get around a good DS player's zoning, even if it is difficult. Yeah, THTB lost that match, but he'd already won multiple matches against both Zer0's and my Deathstrokes using those exact strategies. I think dealing with Deathstroke's zoning is on par with dealing with Nightwing's or Flash's rushdown; it's just a difference of space. Anyway, hopefully this video will help a few pro-nerfers see the light. Thanks for watching!
I am not sure this the best video to demonstrate how it's possible to navigate deathstroke's zoning. Not a criticism of THTB but he dashed into multiple gun shots after blocking the low one, which I know is part of the zoning mixup but the video demonstrates how many reads are required to get in as THTB resorted to using the turbine, which is a really bad tool for getting in on anybody with projectiles that occupy as much of the screen as deathstroke's do.
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
I am not sure this the best video to demonstrate how it's possible to navigate deathstroke's zoning. Not a criticism of THTB but he dashed into multiple gun shots after blocking the low one, which I know is part of the zoning mixup but the video demonstrates how many reads are required to get in as THTB resorted to using the turbine, which is a really bad tool for getting in on anybody with projectiles that occupy as much of the screen as deathstroke's do.
It's definitely not the best textbook example, but it is actual match footage, which is why I think it's important to see in addition to Tom and Reo's video. No one is arguing that getting in on DS is easy, or that it doesn't require correct reads. THTB does make a few bad reds, and he does get impatient and resort to Turbine, which ended up costing him the match. However, you can clearly see him patiently navigating the torrent of bullets and backing DS into the corner. Even though he ended up losing that match, he previously won quite a number of matches using those exact tactics (minus turbine...).
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
It's definitely not the best textbook example, but it is actual match footage, which is why I think it's important to see in addition to Tom and Reo's video. No one is arguing that getting in on DS is easy, or that it doesn't require correct reads. THTB does make a few bad reds, and he does get impatient and resort to Turbine, which ended up costing him the match. However, you can clearly see him patiently navigating the torrent of bullets and backing DS into the corner. Even though he ended up losing that match, he previously won quite a number of matches using those exact tactics (minus turbine...).
Adding to this, in fact, the DS player is the one who has to make good reads. He's the one who is negative on a blocked and a whiffed GS. Imagine it more like Reptile's Elbow Dash. The Reptile player can't just throw them out without thinking. He has to make the other player respect his other options first.

And unlike Reptile, DS DOESN'T have any other options to be respected aside from footsie range.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Adding to this, in fact, the DS player is the one who has to make good reads. He's the one who is negative on a blocked and a whiffed GS. Imagine it more like Reptile's Elbow Dash. The Reptile player can't just throw them out without thinking. He has to make the other player respect his other options first.

And unlike Reptile, DS DOESN'T have any other options to be respected aside from footsie range.
How are Deathstroke's guns anything like reptile's elbow dash? I am not seeing the connection. Reptile used his elbow dash primarily for mobility and coming in behind forceball antics. Deathstroke's guns don't perform this function or anything similar.

You're saying from fullscreen to jump in distance, people don't have to make reads to close the distance on Deathstroke? Deathstroke can mix his zoning up at this range in whichever way he pleases with little consequence against those who lack the mobility tools to get around it. I would hardly call that making reads.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
How are Deathstroke's guns anything like reptile's elbow dash? I am not seeing the connection. Reptile used his elbow dash primarily for mobility and coming in behind forceball antics. Deathstroke's guns don't perform this function or anything similar.

You're saying from fullscreen to jump in distance, people don't have to make reads to close the distance on Deathstroke? Deathstroke can mix his zoning up at this range in whichever way he pleases with little consequence against those who lack the mobility tools to get around it. I would hardly call that making reads.
I mean as a punishing tool. Reptile can use dash to whiff punish or to block punish because if blocked, he's open to a full combo punish. And I say the same for DS to punish dashes.

He can mix them up, yes. But in the end you're still at negative frames and they WILL get in. It's only a "mix-up" because players aren't used to when his MB guns end yet. But once the timing is mastered, there is no mix-up. merely a test of patience for the opponent.
 
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salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
I mean as a punishing tool. Reptile can use dash to whiff punish or to block punish because if blocked, he's open to a full combo punish. And I say the same for DS to punish dashes.

He can mix them up, yes. But in the end you're still at negative frames and they WILL get in. It's only a "mix-up" because players aren't used to when his MB guns end yet. But once the timing is mastered, there is no mix-up. merely a test of patience for the opponent.
The problem I have is this is looking at the thing from the wrong end. It's not possible for Deathstroke to "punish" a dash from fullscreen, in the same way it wasn't possible for Sub-Zero to time trades in mk9. Sub-Zero had to use the iceball to occupy space on the screen as a way to check people who were getting careless with their zoning. Deathstroke is using the guns in a similar sort of way (fullscreen frametraps and whatnot aside). Deathstroke players should know that somewhere down the line, after all the patience in the world, the person at the other end of the screen is going to have to commit to dashing somewhere between the guns, especially if dashing is their only option as far as mobility is concerned. Delaying your guns, meter burning them spacing backwards, all this combined with stage interactables etc, all ways to throw the other person off and prevent them gaining ground on you (and some options reset the distance completely). The gauntlet is the one you are throwing down to your opponent in this scenario, it is most definitely not the other way around, since this is where you control the flow of the match. The onus is on your opponent to make his way in here, with good reads on when you'll throw out which version of which special.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
The problem I have is this is looking at the thing from the wrong end. It's not possible for Deathstroke to "punish" a dash from fullscreen, in the same way it wasn't possible for Sub-Zero to time trades in mk9. Sub-Zero had to use the iceball to occupy space on the screen as a way to check people who were getting careless with their zoning. Deathstroke is using the guns in a similar sort of way (fullscreen frametraps and whatnot aside). Deathstroke players should know that somewhere down the line, after all the patience in the world, the person at the other end of the screen is going to have to commit to dashing somewhere between the guns, especially if dashing is their only option as far as mobility is concerned. Delaying your guns, meter burning them spacing backwards, all this combined with stage interactables etc, all ways to throw the other person off and prevent them gaining ground on you (and some options reset the distance completely). The gauntlet is the one you are throwing down to your opponent in this scenario, it is most definitely not the other way around, since this is where you control the flow of the match. The onus is on your opponent to make his way in here, with good reads on when you'll throw out which version of which special.
I agree with this, yes Deathstroke's game is played. However, it's not a very hard game.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
I agree with this, yes Deathstroke's game is played. However, it's not a very hard game.
While I am not making a judgement on how hard is too hard here, I think this statement falls in line with all the others downplaying Deathstroke. No nerfs, but let's be real and recognise it's not that easy for a lot of the cast.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
While I am not making a judgement on how hard is too hard here, I think this statement falls in line with all the others downplaying Deathstroke. No nerfs, but let's be real and recognise it's not that easy for a lot of the cast.
My bad on my poor choice of words. I did not mean to imply that it's easy in any way. But it isn't as bad as how it is seen by the cryers.

Let's be real here, he shuts down mobility really well.

It's just a matter of reads but he has a far easier time stopping advancing movements than others.
Of course.
 
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Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
If DS was garbage I would've dropped him after the 1st week. I didn't even like him in the beginning due to how negative and non-pushbacking the guns were 'cause of how I kept getting bodied by the Very Hard difficulty in Battles.

But no, I see that he's a solid character. Although I can tell that there are others that are far better than him.