Strategy The Boy Wonder! -- Nightwing General Discussion Thread

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Because more players who play different characters were there? And they were better players?

That's like condemning the methodology of Aquaman because Brady didn't show up to a tourney and every other player ran into killers.

The best players in the game right now don't main Nightwing. That alone will make it hard for him to actually make an impact.

I'll be sure to Top 8 the next major I go to though just for you.

Don't have to do me any favors; I'm not slighting you, tbh. That would be silly. Just the players at ECT. Like I said in my post, "Can we talk about the NW play at ECTV?" Straight up, NWs were relying way too heavily on that stance and they were getting bopped for it.

But while we're on the subject, are you going to CEO or Summer Jam? Maybe EVO?

 

[RedTide00]

It is annoying seeing everyone now complaining about nightwing saying he is op. He is good don't get me wrong but he is fine the way he is, I really hope they don't touch him in the future. At least we are safe for now.

 

[Saitsu]

There was barely any relevant Nightwing play at ECT to begin with. The only one that really mattered was REO, and I can't exactly condemn his play since Nightwing's only his secondary and the bulk of his training has gone to Bruce.

And idk, I need to be less poor. Summer Jam's the most likely destination for me as it's a couple of hours away and even then, there's no guarantee I'll have a ride to and from, and a place to stay.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Well yeah but with REO's knowledge of the game, he should have a better NW than he does. If you watch the matches it's like he's gasping for air in Escrima (for all of the...5 seconds he's in that stance for the set) but then comes to life when he's in Staff. The way Tom came back three straight showed that having a strategy based so heavily on Staff makes it much easier to adapt to and punish NW.

And I see. I would offer some help, but I'm never the one booking the rooms for my scene. It doesn't cost too much to go to a tournament imo. Just scrape together like $100 before August and you should be alright.

 

[Saitsu]

He has the knowledge, but he wasn't comfortable with him. That's the main reason that people stay with their mains even in bad matchups when they could have secondaries that do better. Because while the matchup is better, you just don't have the comfort and reactions that you would have with your main.

And I know the costs for going to a major, it's just a pain to get it done. Even worse for me as if I dont' have a ride, I have to take multiple buses and taxis for transportation.

 

[AK partyeagle]

REO didnt lose because he didn't know NW or wasn't comfortable with him, he lost cuz in the last round he did 4 wake up attacks in a row and got punished for each one. he panicked and made 4 bad reads, shoulda just blocked. he woulda won if it wasn't for that mistake.

 

[7r17r1]

I may be a dick because I really think Nightwing deserves some little nerf

 

[DuskAlloy]

I may be a dick because I really think Nightwing deserves some little nerf

Why?

 

[7r17r1]

Because I think staff spin being safe on block is incredibly stupid (reversal move, anti reversal move, build up wtf meter, hard knockdown, great start up, allow stance switch, amazing hitbox, amazing chip damage, great range... and safe !)
Allowing Nightwing to confirm into a meter burn to make it safe should be enough (if they correct the hitbox so that it hit all opponent crouched)

And his staff d1 should be nerfed a bit, but this needs a clever nerf because Nightwing obviously need a fast poke while in staff or he will eat pressure for free all day if he does even a little mistake

I was thinking of giving a greater pushback, so that his brainless corner pressure in staff gets a bit weaker

The issue with this poke is really it's power in the corner, I like to play characters with heavy corner pressure, I like having tools to do it, but I don't like when it's so powerful it becomes brainless. I don't think Staff should be a good stance for corner pressure, I think it's escrima's purpose

 

[NightwingDayZero]

In any other game Nightwing would be OP as fuck. In Injustice? He's mid tier bros.

 

[TakeAChance]

That's the thing. Nightwing cannot properly be adjusted without ruining him.

If you create pushback on his d1's, he will have trouble following up with his ONLY combo string in that stance.

If you nerf the advantage, he will have trouble making you respect him to DO his only combo string in staff.

The only thing I would deem remotely acceptable is reducing the advantage of his ground pounds. Unfortunately, if they do that, he will lose the Aquaman matchup.

Seriously...people are freaking out about d1 which does NO DAMAGE. It's like Mileenas d4 all over again. The character has insane block traps in the corner in escrima and people are to busy focusing on the d1.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Ppl need to learn to back dash, armor and push block.

Rush down has no need to be modified at this point in time because the players are not utilizing the tools provided by the game to escape.

 

[7r17r1]

Well, these 3 options sux in the corner vs nightwing's staff

and since Nightwing can combo a ground blast after a d1, I guess you can say it can do damage

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Batgirl is the character design they should have gone with for Batman.

Well, these 3 options sux in the corner vs nightwing's staff

and since Nightwing can combo a ground blast after a d1, I guess you can say it can do damage

Staff D1 is only +1 on block and +11 on hit, staff ground pound has 20 start up frames.
They have 20 frames to interrupt you if they block, and 10 to interupt you if they're hit. Superman can f23 his derpy self through it.

 

[TakeAChance]

Well, these 3 options sux in the corner vs nightwing's staff

and since Nightwing can combo a ground blast after a d1, I guess you can say it can do damage

Only if it hits. None of nightwings staff attack's first hits are overheads except for 2, which is slow as balls.

Pushblock, wait for the nightwing to push himself out (and take about 1% damage) or if you see him buffer the ground pound, punish in for it.

 

[Saitsu]

REO didnt lose because he didn't know NW or wasn't comfortable with him, he lost cuz in the last round he did 4 wake up attacks in a row and got punished for each one. he panicked and made 4 bad reads, shoulda just blocked. he woulda won if it wasn't for that mistake.

If he was more comfortable with Nightwing there wouldn't have even BEEN a Game 5. Or a Game 4 for that matter.

 

[7r17r1]

Ho, you can only combo of a d1 if it hits ? I didn't know that, most of the cast can ... so you know...

I never said there was no solution, I just said it's brainless. And I think it needs a "normalization"

I tested enough by myself to know the solutions people have against Nightwing, if I don't know what they can do, I can't possibly know what I can do myself

Being in the corner against a staff Nightwing IS a very shitty situation, indeed. And I think escrima's job should be corner pressure, not staff's job

And it's not a matter of "other character can do this and that" or "yeah but you have this very little and very poor risk&reward solution", it's a general observation : this d1 is brainlessly powerful in the corner, and it shouldn't

Now, I m not going to complain too much, I don't want my character to be nerfed to trash

 

[DuskAlloy]

Ho, you can only combo of a d1 if it hits ? I didn't know that, most of the cast can ... so you know...

I never said there was no solution, I just said it's brainless. And I think it needs a "normalization"

I tested enough by myself to know the solutions people have against Nightwing, if I don't know what they can do, I can't possibly know what I can do myself

Being in the corner against a staff Nightwing IS a very shitty situation, indeed. And I think escrima's job should be corner pressure, not staff's job

And it's not a matter of "other character can do this and that" or "yeah but you have this very little and very poor risk&reward solution", it's a general observation : this d1 is brainlessly powerful in the corner, and it shouldn't

Now, I m not going to complain too much, I don't want my character to be nerfed to trash

Why does escrima need to be the corner monster, escrima works for the match ups against characters with high air control and for mobility with decent frame traps and left and right mix up, I don't see why escrima needs corner dominance over staff...

 

[7r17r1]

Because it was clearly built that way, if you look at escrima you have a tons of frame trap and mix up, while staff is a corner monster only because of d1, the rest of the stance was built to apply a keep away strategy

So we trade a very good stance that can be use in the corner while mixing with the second stance to create an ingenious and interesting gameplay with a godlike poke that does everything by itself

And I don't think it creates an interesting strategie to learn, apply or even watch

It doesn't help players improving themselves

Then again (I'm on the internet so I have to be careful), I don't want staff's corner pressure to be reduce to nothing, we all agree that I never ever ever said that

 

[DuskAlloy]

Because it was clearly built that way, if you look at escrima you have a tons of frame trap and mix up, while staff is a corner monster only because of d1, the rest of the stance was built to apply a keep away strategy

So we trade a very good stance that can be use in the corner while mixing with the second stance to create an ingenious and interesting gameplay with a godlike poke that does everything by itself

And I don't think it creates an interesting strategie to learn, apply or even watch

It doesn't help players improving themselves

Then again (I'm on the internet so I have to be careful), I don't want staff's corner pressure to be reduce to nothing, we all agree that I never ever ever said that

Regardless of the intentions of the stances, what has happened functions and works well, I don't see the point in changing it at this point, and for it not being fun to watch, I think it is interesting, but I never figured Nightwing to be the most fun to watch imo
When I first saw him play I thought he would be all about stance switching but as it turns out it's more for match up functionality, so I realised that he would be solid but probably average to watch

 

[TakeAChance]

Because it was clearly built that way, if you look at escrima you have a tons of frame trap and mix up, while staff is a corner monster only because of d1, the rest of the stance was built to apply a keep away strategy

So we trade a very good stance that can be use in the corner while mixing with the second stance to create an ingenious and interesting gameplay with a godlike poke that does everything by itself

And I don't think it creates an interesting strategie to learn, apply or even watch

It doesn't help players improving themselves

Then again (I'm on the internet so I have to be careful), I don't want staff's corner pressure to be reduce to nothing, we all agree that I never ever ever said that

Without the poke, his staff stance gets crippled.

What's worse? You dealing with less than 1% chip, or nerfing it and having his whole stance not be able to contend with pokes. Not to mention that escrima has a hard enough time with good pokes as it is.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

How about we not Nerf good characters just buff bad ones. K thanks.

Sent from the Batcave

 

[7r17r1]

Without the poke, his staff stance gets crippled.

What's worse? You dealing with less than 1% chip, or nerfing it and having his whole stance not be able to contend with pokes. Not to mention that escrima has a hard enough time with good pokes as it is.

... his staff d1 should be nerfed a bit, but this needs a clever nerf because Nightwing obviously need a fast poke while in staff or he will eat pressure for free all day if he does even a little mistake

Yeah, like I said, "clever" nerf (I could quote all the other things I said about not crippling the stance by ruining this move, but when you do that, people tend to say that you are a dick :])

DuskAlloy :
well, I see your point
let's sumarize my point by saying that I wouldn't mind a nerf of these moves. It would really not cripple Nightwing

On the other hand, I would greatly appreciate a slightly better forward throw

 

[DuskAlloy]

Yeah, like I said, "clever" nerf (I could quote all the other things I said about not crippling the stance by ruining this move, but when you do that, people tend to say that you are a dick :])

DuskAlloy :
well, I see your point
let's sumarize my point by saying that I wouldn't mind a nerf of these moves. It would really not cripple Nightwing

On the other hand, I would greatly appreciate a slightly better forward throw

I'm not sold on the staff keep away ability, it is good but with how bad the staff dashes are i'm not convined that was it's sole purpose, let alone that they made staff spin safe on block or at large advantage with mb

 

[theSkareqro]

I feel that the chip on blocked staff spin might have to be nerfed. It's quite too much.