General/Other - Pyromancer Tanya Pyromancer Discussion Thread

[GuerillaTactix]

Well heres my thoughts.
If you can neutral jump punch Scorpion and Takesa out of the second movement od the teleport then im going to say any input out of her teleport is gonna hit them out.
Unless they time it when youre on the way down. Ive fought Jacquis that air Rocket me clean out od it. Some even comboed me after the rocket. Jacqui is still tough business.

Huh. Didn't even know that. I don't throw air teleports out often so I've never been hit out of one. People usually just block and punish. Good to know. lol!

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

If you think someone is going to armor/backdash the low string then just cancel into dust. its safe and then sets you up into a restand situation.

the low into HIGH is so bad tho.

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

is anyone having problems connecting JIP 1 or JIP 2 in a match?

 

[Reauxbot]

If you think someone is going to armor/backdash the low string then just cancel into dust. its safe and then sets you up into a restand situation.

the low into HIGH is so bad tho.

Yea. Its day 2 man. And people are adjusting to Tanyas strings already. Alot of people ive played have just began neutral ducking the second hit or punching me out of it.

 

[Gengar]

EX shroud in the corner juggles, per the cryptic 'combo out of darkshroud' comment made during the stream. 11u4 into ex shroud can be followed up, no 50/50 after required

 

[Afro_physicist]

You just quote yourself..? Lol
And you forget she can also drill or low slam out of the teleport and also punch. Im also curious how this fares with opposing teleports.

I was playing with scorpion and set the AI to jump around and do air teleports and ground teleports. It was pretty easy to hit her with scorpion's meterless tele Also Kung Lao's dive kick worked fairly well, but he has spin which is scary enough

 

[GLoRToR]

We need a list of things Shroud beats out and what to watch out for.

 

[GAV]

I was playing with scorpion and set the AI to jump around and do air teleports and ground teleports. It was pretty easy to hit her with scorpion's meterless tele Also Kung Lao's dive kick worked fairly well, but he has spin which is scary enough

I had trouble with Scorpion spamming the teleport online, but everyone got out of dodge after just one game. If you wait out the teleport and get on the pole on reaction to the teleport, instead of already being on it, you can beat it out consistently. Getting good with her is going to take patiently intuitive play, but I'm thinking she has tools to deal with everything as a counter character.

 

[Inahk]

So.. I'm on PC, which supposedly just got the Tanya patch balance updates. Before the patch Dust was claiming to be +10, and now says -4 post-patch, same as on console. It definitely still feels positive though, from my testing. Also B312 is a MID now and definitely hits crouching, blocking or not. I assume these are PC-exclusive screw ups? They aren't working like this on console right?

Can someone on console double check the dust frame data. It was pretty obvious its + on PC just from having both characters hold up afterwards.

 

[mhtdtr]

11u4~exdf2 112df1 32% shroud combo

how you do the exdf2 an after the 112 cause the df2, even ex, put the enemy down far away. I cannot connect that

 

[xXstealthflameXx]

how you do the exdf2 an after the 112 cause the df2, even ex, put the enemy down far away. I cannot connect that

That's a corner combo

 

[teh_kingdunch]

Has anyone else came across doing 32% with ex air fireballs after dark shroud? It usually does 22%, but in 1 local match today I did 32% and was like wtf. Now I am testing it in practice and managed to do it a few times, but not sure if it's a bug or it's just some weird timing for the balls to hit the opponent.

Ok I get it now. So because dark shroud only applies on the first fireball, it does 16% + 6% for 22%. But if you time it right for the both fireballs to hit at the same time, it does 16%+16% for a total of 32%. It's hard as shit to do so tho...

 

[EOTL]

So.. I'm on PC, which supposedly just got the Tanya patch balance updates. Before the patch Dust was claiming to be +10, and now says -4 post-patch, same as on console. It definitely still feels positive though, from my testing. Also B312 is a MID now and definitely hits crouching, blocking or not. I assume these are PC-exclusive screw ups? They aren't working like this on console right?

Can someone on console double check the dust frame data. It was pretty obvious its + on PC just from having both characters hold up afterwards.

Its negative on console. Computer jumps before you when set to block: always and stance: jump

 

[DarksydeDash]

Did you guys know Mb fireball destroys other projectiles? :0

 

[GS_Zodiac]

This variation is too strong. Her dust is far too plus. You can barely beat it out with d1. Her grounded fireball is also too plus in a block string. It pushes you just far enough to where a d1 won't reach, and she can backdash any other attack. Her zoning is top notch and perfect, but her dust definitely needs to be made less plus and it should disappear if you hit Tanya. Her fireball should be extremely minus and it's a big problem.

I think the biggest thing is her teleport though. It's so good that plus moves get avoided. It is literally a free get out of jail and you don't even have to Meter burn for armor. The start up should definitely be increased. Hopefully I'm not the only one who feels this way. As of now, kung lao(tempest) has 0 chance of beating her

 

[GLoRToR]

This variation is too strong.

No.

Her dust is far too plus. You can barely beat it out with d1.

Go to the D'Vorah thread if you want to bash a character for being + on block.

Her grounded fireball is also too plus in a block string.

I didn't notice that. Try to punish it with a teleport rather than spin maybe?

It pushes you just far enough to where a d1 won't reach, and she can backdash any other attack. Her zoning is top notch and perfect,

Full Auto Jacquie says hi. You have a teleport, an assortment of hat setups and the best punish in the game, with incredible amounts of damage off of every option.

but her dust definitely needs to be made less plus

No. Pyro would be useless without Shroud Pressure.

and it should disappear if you hit Tanya.

Kotal's totems don't disappear if you hit him either. I'm pretty sure there are other "entities" out there which do not disappear if you hit the character they belong to.

Her fireball should be extremely minus

So you basically want Pyro to be useless instead of learning the matchup. Okay. Please don't propose nerfs to a character you do not play, based on being beaten by what clearly appears to be superior play to your own.

I think the biggest thing is her teleport though. It's so good that plus moves get avoided. It is literally a free get out of jail and you don't even have to Meter burn for armor. The start up should definitely be increased. Hopefully I'm not the only one who feels this way. As of now, kung lao(tempest) has 0 chance of beating her

Yeah so let's take away all her tools because one character's one variation played by a single person seems to not understand how the matchup works.
Helep! The wolef!!
@A F0xy Grampa
@PND_Mustard
@PND_Ketchup
@eTz v reDiahL
Somebody tell this fool to go back to the Lao forum for matchup info before he comes in here to bitch about his favourable matchup.

 

[GLoRToR]

Has anyone else came across doing 32% with ex air fireballs after dark shroud? It usually does 22%, but in 1 local match today I did 32% and was like wtf. Now I am testing it in practice and managed to do it a few times, but not sure if it's a bug or it's just some weird timing for the balls to hit the opponent.

Ok I get it now. So because dark shroud only applies on the first fireball, it does 16% + 6% for 22%. But if you time it right for the both fireballs to hit at the same time, it does 16%+16% for a total of 32%. It's hard as shit to do so tho...

Not THAT hard you just have to read a backdash or use it to whiff punish something really unsafe and space it right.
I'm still learning to do it instant air. Got it 50% the time so far.
It's a very solid tool for one bar, though I'm still reluctant because EX-Teleport or EX-Shroud and their armour can be life saving.

 

[GS_Zodiac]

No.

Go to the D'Vorah thread if you want to bash a character for being + on block.


I didn't notice that. Try to punish it with a teleport rather than spin maybe?


Full Auto Jacquie says hi. You have a teleport, an assortment of hat setups and the best punish in the game, with incredible amounts of damage off of every option.


No. Pyro would be useless without Shroud Pressure.


Kotal's totems don't disappear if you hit him either. I'm pretty sure there are other "entities" out there which do not disappear if you hit the character they belong to.


So you basically want Pyro to be useless instead of learning the matchup. Okay. Please don't propose nerfs to a character you do not play, based on being beaten by what clearly appears to be superior play to your own.



Yeah so let's take away all her tools because one character's one variation played by a single person seems to not understand how the matchup works.
Helep! The wolef!!
@A F0xy Grampa
@PND_Mustard
@PND_Ketchup
@eTz v reDiahL
Somebody tell this fool to go back to the Lao forum for matchup info before he comes in here to bitch about his favourable matchup.

This was not me complaining about a single mu... Those were my honest thoughts on the character and what I felt needed to be done. Most zoning tools are unsafe up close. If I was bashing her I'd be using way more vulgar language, but if you want to talk shit about me that's cool too.

 

[GS_Zodiac]

This was not me complaining about a single mu... Those were my honest thoughts on the character and what I felt needed to be done. Most zoning tools are unsafe up close. If I was bashing her I'd be using way more vulgar language, but if you want to talk shit about me that's cool too.

I was just corrected by a friend who told me it's not a fireball, but b3,1 2 you I take back what I said about that, but I still stand by my opinion

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Lao can keep Tanya grounded by the looks of it, dunno what the problem is

 

[GLoRToR]

This was not me complaining about a single mu... Those were my honest thoughts on the character and what I felt needed to be done. Most zoning tools are unsafe up close. If I was bashing her I'd be using way more vulgar language, but if you want to talk shit about me that's cool too.

Don't get your goatee in a twist, young shaolin XD
Fighting games for you. You'll get bodied and you'll learn to love it.
You gotta get into practice mode and replicate what the opponent was doing and figure out how to circumvent, punish or avoid it.

Tanya's fastest move is her i8 jab that's a high, if you read it coming you can d1 or d4 it into pressure of your own.
Her mixup options are
b3 which is a low kick it's i12 and -5b so I believe spin punishes it on block.
f2 which is a two-hit blockstring i13, it's listed as -2 on block but I think it's actually not negative, will need to test that. It has crazy cancel into both teleport and shroud and it's a double mid but it's a r28 so if it whiffs you can punish it with anything anyhow.

Do work instead of going all "omfg everything is borked delete this character and cleanse where it stood with fiyarr"
lol

 

[GLoRToR]

Lao can keep Tanya grounded by the looks of it, dunno what the problem is

GS_Zodiac is on a Tanya hunt going all nurff nurrrrfff instead of doing work. Could you grab him by the ear and drag him to the Lao forum for some matchup discussion? lol

 

[GS_Zodiac]

Don't get your goatee in a twist, young shaolin XD
Fighting games for you. You'll get bodied and you'll learn to love it.
You gotta get into practice mode and replicate what the opponent was doing and figure out how to circumvent, punish or avoid it.

Tanya's fastest move is her i8 jab that's a high, if you read it coming you can d1 or d4 it into pressure of your own.
Her mixup options are
b3 which is a low kick it's i12 and -5b so I believe spin punishes it on block.
f2 which is a two-hit blockstring i13, it's listed as -2 on block but I think it's actually not negative, will need to test that. It has crazy cancel into both teleport and shroud and it's a double mid but it's a r28 so if it whiffs you can punish it with anything anyhow.

Do work instead of going all "omfg everything is borked delete this character and cleanse where it stood with fiyarr"
lol

Once again, that's not at all what I'm saying. This is just what I felt after playing a very long set against the variation offline with a friend. By no means do I want her gone, I love the character. I just personally felt that this variation is particularly strong. Of course I'm going to look over the mu and see just what I was doing wrong.

 

[GLoRToR]

Once again, that's not at all what I'm saying. This is just what I felt after playing a very long set against the variation offline with a friend. By no means do I want her gone, I love the character. I just personally felt that this variation is particularly strong. Of course I'm going to look over the mu and see just what I was doing wrong.

Tanya was intended to be a walking mixup game. She's very unsafe on a lot of her options you just have to understand her to see this. Shroud is only truly fearsome on hit, even though it does give slight advantage on block, for the most part you can either crush, low profile or move out of the followup on block depending on your tools.

Teleport is also unsafe and only truly fearsome if you read it wrong. Try dashing out of it.

 

[GLoRToR]

Can anybody confirm if Tanya's Shroud is -4 or +what on block?