General/Other - Dragon Naginata Tanya Dragon Naginata Discussion Thread

[GS_Zodiac]

Best to stick to meterless combos from F2. You started with a jump in, so that's 1% there, which means you're spending a bar for only 1-3% more since meterless does 35%. Good to know I can pump a little more damage out if I need to, though.

Yeah but there are going to be instances off of cross up or otherwise where it'd be nice to have a ji where if you spend a bar you can get a hard face forward knockdown into a setup. I should find a corner variant that keeps them in the corner!

 

[Reauxbot]

From all that i hear about DN, is just lowering the motivation to play it. Maybe ill try Pyro next.
But seeing Wonderchef play her was pretty amazing. Im hoping DN isnt just "gimmicky" and useless.

 

[infamy23]

Best to stick to meterless combos from F2. You started with a jump in, so that's 1% there, which means you're spending a bar for only 1-3% more since meterless does 35%. Good to know I can pump a little more damage out if I need to, though.

I do this one for 40% - Still not really worth a bar though.

F2 DF3 AirD2xxF2 AirD2xxF2 Ji1 2U3 34 EXDF3 Nj1 RUN 24 DB4 (40%)

 

[GS_Zodiac]

I personally think DN forces your opponent to make hard reads and the variation specific strings and normals are really good

 

[infamy23]

I personally think DN forces your opponent to make hard reads and the variation specific strings and normals are really good

Why do they need to make hard reads when they can just block? She's gotta be the most punishable character in the game, or at least close to it.

B2 is -22
D2 is -17
F42 is -12
243, B31, B312, B313, F43 can all be armored
BF4 is -36
DB4 is -24
Air DF4 is -25
Air DB4 is -25
Pogo~3 is -21
Pogo~4 is -15
BF2 is -24

That's 15 different things that your opponent can block, and full combo punish.

 

[SEV]

So very important to be able to hit confirm off of F2 DF3 with this variation: on hit, obviously, you can just confirm into the meterless BnB for 35%, and on block you can cancel the DF3 to be plus enough for a D1 check to beat out any option other than armor. Haven't done precise testing, but theoretically if Tanya is at least +2 from the cancel, you could even teleport again and be safe since it's a 7 frame start up.

She's got a lot of negative frames but a lot of those are negative for a reason: B2 is a 13 frame mid that checks at 3/4 screen so if you're spacing and using it properly it shouldn't matter, D2 is always punishable, F42 is a mix up string between that and F43, BF4 and DB4 are grounded mix ups, air DF/B4 are aerial mix ups, Pogo 3/4 are mix ups, and BF2 is a combo ender.

Also B32 can't be armored through and leads to the same damage as B31 so that doesn't really matter, F42 is safe so you have to be prepared for that option out of F4, and all of her other strings that can be armored through, realistically, aren't going to be used outside of combos.

Tanya in DN can threaten with a 13 frame poke 3/4 screen, impose mix ups 1/2 screen with pogo and can threaten pressure with DF3 or F2 within the same range. The only place on the screen where she can't threaten you with anything is when she's full screen. She has Takeda's range with better mix ups, button speed and mobility, and great meterless damage. It seems to be a solid, if not the best, variation, in my opinion.

 

[Afro_physicist]

Why do they need to make hard reads when they can just block? She's gotta be the most punishable character in the game, or at least close to it.

B2 is -22
D2 is -17
F42 is -12
243, B31, B312, B313, F43 can all be armored
BF4 is -36
DB4 is -24
Air DF4 is -25
Air DB4 is -25
Pogo~3 is -21
Pogo~4 is -15
BF2 is -24

That's 15 different things that your opponent can block, and full combo punish.

pogo 4 puts you half screen away from your opponent, and without a teleport or devent range attack, they can't punish

 

[Zebster]

So can you not do three pogo's in a combo? I saw that you could do ji2, pogo, f2, ji2 and it would combo. I checked to see if it was an infinite but after 3 times I always end up with a grounded d2 when I try pogo the third time.

 

[GS_Zodiac]

So can you not do three pogo's in a combo? I saw that you could do ji2, pogo, f2, ji2 and it would combo. I checked to see if it was an infinite but after 3 times I always end up with a grounded d2 when I try pogo the third time.

As far as I'm aware you can only do 2 yes

 

[infamy23]

So very important to be able to hit confirm off of F2 DF3 with this variation: on hit, obviously, you can just confirm into the meterless BnB for 35%, and on block you can cancel the DF3 to be plus enough for a D1 check to beat out any option other than armor. Haven't done precise testing, but theoretically if Tanya is at least +2 from the cancel, you could even teleport again and be safe since it's a 7 frame start up.

She's got a lot of negative frames but a lot of those are negative for a reason: B2 is 13 frame mid that checks at 3/4 screen so if you're spacing and using it properly it shouldn't matter, D2 is always punishable, F42 is a mix up string between that and F43, BF4 and DB4 are grounded mix ups, air DF/B4 are aerial mix ups, Pogo 3/4 are mix ups, and BF2 is a combo ender.

Also B32 can't be armored through and leads to the same damage as B31 so that doesn't really matter, F42 is safe so you have to be prepared for that option out of F4 so you need to be wary, and all of her other strings that can be armored through, realistically, aren't going to be used outside of combos.

Tanya in DN can threaten with a 13 frame poke 3/4 screen, impose mix ups 1/2 screen with pogo and can threaten pressure with DF3 or F2 within the same range. The only place on the screen where she can't threaten you with anything is when she's full screen. She has Takeda's range with better mix ups, button speed and mobility, and great meterless damage. It seems to be a solid, if not the best, variation, in my opinion.

Not saying she's bad. I'm just looking at her from a top 5 perspective.

I play Raiden, if I block a B2, you're getting a reversal superman 100% of the time, and now you have to guess. If you guess wrong, you are in big trouble.

These "mix-ups" you keep referring to are mostly 1 hit moves. Kung Jin gets half screen mix-ups that lead into 30+% super easy combos.

She's good, but as a Raiden player, I approach this match by just hanging back and letting her do shit. If I get hit a few times, oh well, most of her stuff doesn't lead into a lot of damage.

If I block ANYTHING, she is going to lose 30% and will be put into the corner.

 

[Afro_physicist]

I haven't put a lot of time into testing, but here's a clip of some pressure this variation has after landing a double pogo. I was trying to end the double pogo hit into a space where I could land a ji1 to be in advantage to hit them with a low(b3) a grab, a high (112) or an overhead(f3).

Not perfected but something nonetheless.

 

[SEV]

She's good, but as a Raiden player, I approach this match by just hanging back and letting her do shit. If I get hit a few times, oh well, most of her stuff doesn't lead into a lot of damage.

I'm a Raiden main as well, and while what you say is true, there is no reason to use some of those options in that match up. B2 will be used to check certain characters on reaction that have good tools at that range(Sub's iceball, Takeda's whips, etc), only tool Raiden has at that range is his Lightning Balls which you could just teleport through and punish. And there's no reason to compare her to Kung Jin as they really have next to nothing in common meta wise.

 

[SEV]

I haven't put a lot of time into testing, but here's a clip of some pressure this variation has after landing a double pogo. I was trying to end the double pogo hit into a space where I could land a ji1 to be in advantage to hit them with a low(b3) a grab, a high (112) or an overhead(f3).

Not perfected but something nonetheless.

You can get more doing double pogo into cross up, Ji2 F2* DF3 Ji2 (D2 Pogo or B32). Reset happens at the asterisk and the following Ji2 will jail into your 50/50; it does 25% I believe. So the combo is:

Edit, better combo: D2 Ji2 F2 DF3 D2 F2 Ji2 F2* DF3 Ji2 (D2 or B32) 27%

Technically you can vortex so long as you loop with the overhead but the low will only give 6%(B31 DF3) so it's best to just get damage from the low and go back into neutral.

 

[KombAtlante]

 

[SEV]

So max range B1 DF3 is godlike. On hit it's a guaranteed 50/50, and on block it puts you directly above them where you can D2 if you read a D2 anti-air into full combo, or you get a 50/50 from Ji2.

It looks like they might not even be able to armor through on block, depending on the character, because it puts you almost directly above them so their moves needs to have a vertical hitbox directly above them, like Lao, to be able to punish.

B1 DF3 cancel possibility can make it completely safe and create a mind game too.

 

[DocCeaser]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong but jip xx d2 or jip, b32 is not a 50/50. In every scenario I've seen people post about the d2 whiffs if the jip is blocked. Also, as far as I can tell the pogo stance 50/50 is useless for the purpose of opening someone up.

 

[SEV]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong but jip xx d2 or jip, b32 is not a 50/50. In every scenario I've seen people post about the d2 whiffs if the jip is blocked. Also, as far as I can tell the pogo stance 50/50 is useless for the purpose of opening someone up.

Possibly not canceling it fast enough from the jump in punch? As far as I can tell if you're doing it fast enough, the pogo will connect before the push back from Ji2 puts them out of range. Granted you're spacing it properly that is, can't do it from max range Ji2.

 

[DocCeaser]

Possibly not canceling it fast enough from the jump in punch? As far as I can tell if you're doing it fast enough, the pogo will connect before the push back from Ji2 puts them out of range. Granted you're spacing it properly that is, can't do it from max range Ji2.

In situations where the spacing is fixed like here D2 Ji2 F2 DF3 D2 F2 Ji2 F2 DF3 Ji2 the d2 whiffs every time for me. I can only get the d2 to connect on block with a properly spaced deep jump in from neutral. I would really like to see this in video but I'll take your word for it.
edit: Maybe its character specific? I'm getting it on Dvorah but can't on Tanya. edit2: I wasn't canceling fast enough. I had no idea it could be done this fast. Thank you. edit3: The previous edits was me trying it from b1 xx df3. Not sure about the other setup.

 

[SEV]

In situations where the spacing is fixed like here D2 Ji2 F2 DF3 D2 F2 Ji2 F2 DF3 Ji2 the d2 whiffs every time for me. I can only get the d2 to connect on block with a properly spaced deep jump in from neutral. I would really like to see this in video but I'll take your word for it.
edit: Maybe its character specific? I'm getting it on Dvorah but can't on Tanya.

Hmm, I see what you mean. I could have sworn I was able to earlier when I was beating on Kotal, but I can't right now on Sub. Meh. Probably best then to just go for the BnB.

 

[Arkayne]

If I'm reading what you're saying correctly... Use the Jp-D2 later than usual and it will force a block.

The one thing I'm having trouble figuring out is getting NJ.P out of Teleport from the ground. I can only get J.p

 

[SEV]

If I'm reading what you're saying correctly... Use the Jp-D2 later than usual and it will force a block.

The one thing I'm having trouble figuring out is getting NJ.P out of Teleport from the ground. I can only get J.p

A good trick someone posted is to hold down as you start your teleport so it's already held down as you come out, then use 1 instead of 2. Works for me every time doing that.

 

[DocCeaser]

I've noticed that from f2 xx df3, your opponent can backdash the jip if you delay it for the d2 to hit. Maybe its possible to do it earlier than I am though.

 

[GLoRToR]

I've noticed that from f2 xx df3, your opponent can backdash the jip if you delay it for the d2 to hit. Maybe its possible to do it earlier than I am though.

You hold down while you teleport and mash the 1 like crazy. It will come out as soon as your character's hurtbox gets placed, which is some 1-3 frames before she appears so the punch will come out on point.

 

[stevoforce.mk]

 

[DocCeaser]

The 50/50 off of the jump in seems really easy to block because the d2 overhead is too fast. Once people know that its an option they only have to stand block a little longer and then easily react to tanya landing to block the low.