T-800 Terminator General Discussion Thread

[freerf245]

I love this character. He might be the most patient-oriented character in the game. He has to be patient and wait for an opportunity, but when he gets a hit he can explode.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I honestly don't feel he is that bad. He does have good mids:

• 16f F4 that's 0 on block
• 13f mid that's -4 with meter in Final Judgment.
• Amazing D4
• his jailing is off the charts with D1 +12 and D3 +15.
• second hit of 12 has mad range.

Not to mention he has great mix, KB's, decent FB, damage and counter zoning and possibly the best 6f D1.
His D3 is quite possibly the best AA in the game maybe beat by Cassie's B3.

He isn't doing bad at anything just doesn't have a 9f mid. I've tested it and his B3 has nearly same range as Liu's B1 if not more.

The only thing I feel is really bad is you can OS his F3 options(posted that above)

All of those attacks you listed have awful range. 2 in 12 requires you to start with a high. D4 is good but it doesn’ guarantee anything and doesn’t give you a turn, if anything the pushback from you landing the hit does more harm than good if you land it at max range.

This character has no reach and is awful at punishing, having good frames or mid attacks is pointless if most of the cast has buttons that can keep you out of your effective range even on block.

Being patient doesn’t work on smart players, who realize they have absolutely no reason to use attacks that would put them in your range, and they’ll just poke and out-footsie you to death as they safely create and keep distance.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

All of those attacks you listed have awful range. 2 in 12 requires you to start with a high. D4 is good but it doesn’ guarantee anything and doesn’t give you a turn, if anything the pushback from you landing the hit does more harm than good if you land it at max range.

This character has no reach and is awful at punishing, having good frames or mid attacks is pointless if most of the cast has buttons that can keep you out of your effective range even on block.

Being patient doesn’t work on smart players, who realize they have absolutely no reason to use attacks that would put them in your range, and they’ll just poke and out-footsie you to death as they safely create and keep distance.

Well I guess you can give up on him. I am finding tons of tech making me feel he is at least A Tier. I feel he can definitely play this meta. Honestly he would be broke if he had a 9f mid with decent range with his toolset.
I'm kind of glad they didn't give him everything, he is a grappler with setups and restands with great damage into jailing pressure. I don't think he needs faster mids.

But if you are so confident on day 2 he us trash then play another character. I see potential and many are discovering tech for him as we speak.

 

[Tony at Home]

Okay just wanted to make sure I wasn’t crazy.

I was getting blown up by all kinds of shit last light.

Scorpions could just start spinning their chains at me and I had no answer in Dark Fate.

Chain spin is actually punishable by microdash into the command grab. Even at far range.

Da proofz:

Mortal Kombat 11 20191010222524 GIF by tonyathome | Gfycat

Watch and share Mortal Kombat 11 20191010222524 GIFs by tonyathome on Gfycat

gfycat.com

(Notice the "punish" indicator here and the fact that I'm holding "UP" with Scorpion and still getting hit)

This is why I've been saying Dark Fate is where it's at and the other variations (while ultimately good) are flawed when it comes to footsies range. The command grab is 11 frames with crazy range and his forward dash is bonkers.

 

[freerf245]

The input for his first fatality is actually fbfb1
not bfb1. No idea how they managed to fuck that up.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

The input for his first fatality is actually fbfb1
not bfb1. No idea how they managed to fuck that up.

You know I used to think the same thing but that's not true. His Fatalities seem weird because the range to do them is really small.

 

[freerf245]

You know I used to think the same thing but that's not true. His Fatalities seem weird because the range to do them is really small.

Its worked 100% for me now. Can’t get his second one to work at all though.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

All of those attacks you listed have awful range.

F4 has mad range I have no clue how you don't see that.
D4 isn't just good its godlike.

I can only speak on my variation Final Judgment. D4 basically guarantees F4 which can be OSed to cancel into Ion Grenade which launches not to mention it can be used to setup traps on hit as well.

F2/F3 are true 50/50's where most in this game are Fuzzyable being 19/18f startup isn't bad at its range considering what they do and lead into not to mention he has damn near the best wavedash in the game. His dash is ridiculous. Because of this he has no limits to his range if you have the Execution.

2 in 12 requires you to start with a high.

I'm fully aware, surly doesn't make it useless at all and I feel IRS very powerful considering without wavedash the second hit reaches to JIK distance.
Its also a good auto shimmy

This character has no reach and is awful at punishing, having good frames or mid attacks is pointless if most of the cast has buttons that can keep you out of your effective range even on block.

In my variation (Final Judgment) he has very good punishers off 7f and 9f starters and even his 10f mid.

Wait you are saying because other characters have better range he is useless? Say that to Liu Kang with very short range buttons aside from his B3 at 16f.
Characters don't need massive range to compete. In all variations he has specials to circumvent lack of range and a very strong wavedash
.

• V1 he has ground pound, shotgun, leaping overhead that goes full screen.
• V2 he has running man and shotgun.
• V3 he has unblockable which removes the opponents ability to amp which limits what they can zone you with And he has Ion Grenade that can be used to convert from full screen and used for setups. Ion Grenades being +40 on block and launching on hit anywhere on screen Is pretty strong considering normal one is -4 on block.

Then add to all of this he has restands in all variations which makes him a snowball character that is built around grappling as a base With V3 being added momentum/setups.


At least in V3 I know he doesn't need fast mids or better range. I feel he has all the tools he needs.

IN V3 He has:

• One of the best D4's
• One of the best AA's (D3)
• Solid damage
• Amazing setplay
• One of the best counter zoning tools in the game.
• Good corner carry into setup
• +40 on block setplay that jail into mixup
• CMD Grab that ticks of F3 and can catch them trying to OS with Ion Grenade.
• top 3 Wavedash
• Good damage from fatal blow especially in combo.
• Great Wakeup's.
• Good flawless block launcher and U+3.
• Top 3 50/50's that are actually true 50/50 and not fuzzy blockable.

But yes he does not have 9-11 frame mids and does suffer vs zoning heavy characters Like: Sonya, Cetrion, Cassie.

But he is far from bad in fact I predict top players will place him Top 10 in next Tier Lists based off tech found and toolset vs known characters.
From what I'm hearing most top players are acting like he is Broke AF because he can do 50/50's into 71% and melt life bars with Restands that jail into mix when using wavedash pressure. But I think he is pretty honest from what I've found so far but definitely strong in several areas.

 

[Evil Canadian]

F4 is an amazing normal. Very strong range(from just a smidge outside of round start position), hits mid, only -1 on block(extra good cause he has a 6f jab), causes 18f of hitstun, true jail into running man boot, and also single hit confirmable into running boot/tackle easily enough, and only option to escape the tackle is to jump, nothing else works.

Its a workhorse of a normal.

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

Everyone is sleeping on his Final Judgement variation and i hope it stays that way lol. I know this variation doesnt give you the most damage or the most mix ups and it is not for everybody, but this variation is fun.

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

F4 has mad range I have no clue how you don't see that.
D4 isn't just good its godlike.

I can only speak on my variation Final Judgment. D4 basically guarantees F4 which can be OSed to cancel into Ion Grenade which launches not to mention it can be used to setup traps on hit as well.

F2/F3 are true 50/50's where most in this game are Fuzzyable being 19/18f startup isn't bad at its range considering what they do and lead into not to mention he has damn near the best wavedash in the game. His dash is ridiculous. Because of this he has no limits to his range if you have the Execution.



I'm fully aware, surly doesn't make it useless at all and I feel IRS very powerful considering without wavedash the second hit reaches to JIK distance.
Its also a good auto shimmy



In my variation (Final Judgment) he has very good punishers off 7f and 9f starters and even his 10f mid.

Wait you are saying because other characters have better range he is useless? Say that to Liu Kang with very short range buttons aside from his B3 at 16f.
Characters don't need massive range to compete. In all variations he has specials to circumvent lack of range and a very strong wavedash
.

• V1 he has ground pound, shotgun, leaping overhead that goes full screen.
• V2 he has running man and shotgun.
• V3 he has unblockable which removes the opponents ability to amp which limits what they can zone you with And he has Ion Grenade that can be used to convert from full screen and used for setups. Ion Grenades being +40 on block and launching on hit anywhere on screen Is pretty strong considering normal one is -4 on block.

Then add to all of this he has restands in all variations which makes him a snowball character that is built around grappling as a base With V3 being added momentum/setups.


At least in V3 I know he doesn't need fast mids or better range. I feel he has all the tools he needs.

IN V3 He has:

• One of the best D4's
• One of the best AA's (D3)
• Solid damage
• Amazing setplay
• One of the best counter zoning tools in the game.
• Good corner carry into setup
• +40 on block setplay that jail into mixup
• CMD Grab that ticks of F3 and can catch them trying to OS with Ion Grenade.
• top 3 Wavedash
• Good damage from fatal blow especially in combo.
• Great Wakeup's.
• Good flawless block launcher and U+3.
• Top 3 50/50's that are actually true 50/50 and not fuzzy blockable.

But yes he does not have 9-11 frame mids and does suffer vs zoning heavy characters Like: Sonya, Cetrion, Cassie.

But he is far from bad in fact I predict top players will place him Top 10 in next Tier Lists based off tech found and toolset vs known characters.
From what I'm hearing most top players are acting like he is Broke AF because he can do 50/50's into 71% and melt life bars with Restands that jail into mix when using wavedash pressure. But I think he is pretty honest from what I've found so far but definitely strong in several areas.

are you ending your combos with?

 

[fr stack]

Im wondering if you can do the incapacitator mid kombo .. something like b31 bfb3 amp bf1 and then try to link into an ender. at work right now though 8(

 

[FDMK]

The input for his first fatality is actually fbfb1
not bfb1. No idea how they managed to fuck that up.

Hmmm, I'll try that when I get home today. That fatality has been really annoying me. I only managed to get it to work once. I must've accidentally added an extra 'forward' when I pulled it off.

I've seen some other folks say you have to be as close as possible to your opponent. You have to hold block when doing the directional inputs so you don't move away at all.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Chain spin is actually punishable by microdash into the command grab. Even at far range.

Da proofz:

Mortal Kombat 11 20191010222524 GIF by tonyathome | Gfycat

Watch and share Mortal Kombat 11 20191010222524 GIFs by tonyathome on Gfycat

gfycat.com

(Notice the "punish" indicator here and the fact that I'm holding "UP" with Scorpion and still getting hit)

This is why I've been saying Dark Fate is where it's at and the other variations (while ultimately good) are flawed when it comes to footsies range. The command grab is 11 frames with crazy range and his forward dash is bonkers.

All I needed to know

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

are you ending your combos with?

Which ones?
Ion Setups, Incapacitate setups, oki setups, high damage or restands?

Ion setups I use:

• B1xxIon for stuffing WU U2/U3
• B31xxIon for delay WU setups
• F4xxIon for roll setups

For incapacitator I can usually connect in combo on end with: B1/B31/S4/21/12

Oki I use 212 on end of combos for HKD.

High damage I use: CMD Grab Amp forward or normal.

Restand I use CMD Grab D+Amp on end and only loses 2-3%.

Im wondering if you can do the incapacitator mid kombo .. something like b31 bfb3 amp bf1 and then try to link into an ender. at work right now though 8(

You can connect Incapacitator on end of combos very easily. It connects best with:
21
12
B31

But some combos allow 121/F4/s3/s4/B1

I found a very specific setups I think I posted above or in the other thread where I was able to do 3 grenades by timing the refresh in combo perfectly while my opponent still had yellow glow disabling meter use. Very hard to do and certain females wiff on this setup but I feel its pretty strong.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182453464934178816

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Everyone is sleeping on his Final Judgement variation and i hope it stays that way lol. I know this variation doesnt give you the most damage or the most mix ups and it is not for everybody, but this variation is fun.

Ohh I know. I've been using it exclusively. He loses shotgun but gains:

• Punishers from 7f/9f jabs and the ability to combo off everything.
• can make every button safe (-4) with Ion Grenade including his F2 and launches on hit.
• +40 on block setups into true 50/50s.
• remove your opponents ability to spend meter for nearly 7 seconds and its unblockable. F2 jails into it.
• full screen combos into F34 KB.

I think the other two are very strong in their own ways. Dark Fate has cancel pressure and run and that insane CMD Grab range.
Destroyer has Shotgun KB's, huge damage and better mix with some if the best gap closers and counter zoning.
But I feel both of those variations lose the ability to punish top tiers since they can't combo from 121/21/B31/F4 like V3 can and they lose setplay and anti meter.

 

[jollycalf123]

I am having difficulty punishing unsafe move with this character especially those that generate some pushback.

For example, when Jaqui does her kick moves I can't see to punish it. None of T-800 normals seem to reach far enough and he is not fast enough to dash jab punish it. It is making the MU an extreme pain. Can someone lend me some advice I would really appreciate it.

 

[Kind cows]

I am having difficulty punishing unsafe move with this character especially those that generate some pushback.

For example, when Jaqui does her kick moves I can't see to punish it. None of T-800 normals seem to reach far enough and he is not fast enough to dash jab punish it. It is making the MU an extreme pain. Can someone lend me some advice I would really appreciate it.

I found the best option to be either b312 or raw CMD grab. The grab is only 11 frames so it's plenty fast enough to yank people. His wave dashing into grab is fucking bonkers. You can punish things like searing rages ballerina swirl with it. The only other thing is making sure you commit the 12 because he steps forward a good bit on the 2 and it's a mid. I play dark fate primarily btw. Options are different for the other 2. Destroyer has the option of the mix up specials while his normals don't reach. The ground pound will... And with final judgement you can be ultra disrespectful and ion mb

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I am having difficulty punishing unsafe move with this character especially those that generate some pushback.

For example, when Jaqui does her kick moves I can't see to punish it. None of T-800 normals seem to reach far enough and he is not fast enough to dash jab punish it. It is making the MU an extreme pain. Can someone lend me some advice I would really appreciate it.

Variation 1&2 lack punishers since they can't combo off 121/21/F4/B1 and if they do they get lower damage.
Variation 2 has insane range with CMD Grab so its one of his best punishers anything -12 or more is punished by it and you can buffer the reversal to punish frame perfect.

V3 is the variation you use to punish.
I normally punish with his B1 when he cheats is 13f advancing mid into Ion Grenade. If anything is safer than -14 you are left with D4 for long range.
His F2 & F3 are 18-19 frames.
So he only has short range punishers like his s1(7f high) , B3(10f mid), s2(9f high).
Then he has medium range punishers like:
B1(13f mid launcher), B2(13f high launcher), D4 which guarantees Ion grenade setup or mixups in the corner or free space to use his 50/50s.
His best reaching normal is a 16f mid F4 and its hit confirmable, special cancelable, only -1 to zero on block and has nearly 18f of blockstun.
That is one of his weaknesses is he lacks medium range fast punishers but in V3 he can start combos from any button into 30% and in many cases 40-60%.
But most of all he is about Conditioning respect which allows you to use otherwise slow moves like F2/F32 which are true 50/50s. What's very strong in this variation is you can remove your opponents option to use meter for long periods of time with his Incapacitator. This removes most characters combos on punish, Wakeup's, some zoning tools, breakaway ect. On top of this V3 also gets setplay that has up to +40 on block ion grenade traps that jail into true 50/50s that then lead to a restand that jails into his other 50/50's.

If you are having problems punishing characters I suggest switching to Final Judgment and use his grenades to remove Wakeup's and jail them into pressure loops. He is a momentum character that has great potential to snowball.
I don't think its broke or anything, there is counterplay to all of this so its honest but very strong.
Its funny, I get on TYM and several people are saying he is trash. I go to Twitter and several pro players are saying how good he is.

 

[jollycalf123]

Thanks to the two post above.

I have been using the deadly assassin variation (the one with the run) so I will try out the third one today in the MU where I need quicker punishments as unfortunately the variation I am using can only combo of B1 in the corner.

I am also a dummy because I totally forgot that B2 move exist until you mentioned it as I never used since it is not part of a string. I will try that out today and see if it reaches the harder moves to punish

I also have to practice entering the command grab to punish things, IDK why but the DBF input always takes me a long time.

Thanks again for the advice.

Edit: Looks like you can use B2 to punish farther moves in deadly assasin variation. B2 B2 121 ex command grab is the combo that I will be using.

Also B2 has very weird scaling, for example if I did B2 B2 B2 121 ex command grab it actually does less than only using to B2s. But If you do B2 B2 B2 command grab (no ex) it does more than B2 B2 command grab (no ex).

 

[Kind cows]

B2 being a launcher scales your damage really hard. Working on the dbf. Try it as two inputs quarter circle back... forward plus 2... That helped me a ton when I started practicing. I have so many problems with fucking AA and people who just spam jump like I know my d2 or d3 should catch you but it's okay baraka I'll eat that j4 for no fucking reason.

 

[Kind cows]

Is it just me or is Arnie's wavedash like the fucking best in the game

 

[DixieFlatline78]

It's up there. I think the Kahns still out rank him. Jax, Johnny, Liu, and Sub Zero are around his speed

 

[rainuS]

Nightwolf

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I am also a dummy because I totally forgot that B2 move exist until you mentioned it as I never used since it is not part of a string. I will try that out today and see if it reaches the harder moves to punish

I'm glad I included that then. I felt like I went on a long rant lol

I also have to practice entering the command grab to punish things, IDK why but the DBF input always takes me a long time.

You may want to go into controls and change input Window timing to Long with easy input on for CMD Grab Characters if you haven't already. Then its simply getting the rhythm of doing D1 or F3 canceled into DBF2.

Edit: Looks like you can use B2 to punish farther moves in deadly assasin variation. B2 B2 121 ex command grab is the combo that I will be using.

Also B2 has very weird scaling, for example if I did B2 B2 B2 121 ex command grab it actually does less than only using to B2s. But If you do B2 B2 B2 command grab (no ex) it does more than B2 B2 command grab (no ex).

Yeah his B2 has serious scaling but you can find ways to get it above 20%.
But his B2 is very strong. Its only -9 on block and launches midscreen and in corner and many characters can't punish it.
B1 is same speed as B2 but its a mid and in V3 you can make it -4 to +4 on block with medium range Ion Grenade Amped.

B2 being a launcher scales your damage really hard. Working on the dbf. Try it as two inputs quarter circle back... forward plus 2... That helped me a ton when I started practicing. I have so many problems with fucking AA and people who just spam jump like I know my d2 or d3 should catch you but it's okay baraka I'll eat that j4 for no fucking reason.

You may not know this but Terminator has one of the best AA's in the game possibly 2nd best
His D3 has no hurtbox to be seen and beats Barakas JIK's like nothing else.
Cassie's B3 may be better but not much else.

Is it just me or is Arnie's wavedash like the fucking best in the game

Its the 3rd best in the game. I'm damn near convinced its almost better than Sub's if not even but Kotal's wavedash is definitely the best in the game.
Its funny Because Terminator's walkspeed is probably bottom 3.

Yeah so I don't see how anyone thinks Terminator lacks range with his insane wavedash and his CMD Grab range in Dark Fate is mad far, beyond D4 range. Pretty strong.