Video/Tutorial - Grandmaster Sub-Zero's Ice Clone doesn't work properly

[Wigy]

Thing is, if this gets fixed, certain characters are completely fucking screwed in the corner.
My only way out without making a really good armoured read is this glitchyness. No character should have those corner setups, if this is fixed he effectively has a meterless vortex in the corner thats safe cause u can't punish the b2 with clone sitting there. You can armour out, but the risk reward is hugely against your favour and subzero has pretty strong corner carry and space control so its not hard for him to get you there.k

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Thing is, if this gets fixed, certain characters are completely fucking screwed in the corner.
My only way out without making a really good armoured read is this glitchyness. No character should have those corner setups, if this is fixed he effectively has a meterless vortex in the corner thats safe cause u can't punish the b2 with clone sitting there. You can armour out, but the risk reward is hugely against your favour and subzero has pretty strong corner carry and space control so its not hard for him to get you there.k

Uh, what?
How on earth does Sub Zero get a meterless vortex? Please elaborate.

And also, armouring out is not risk vs reward. His 50/50 is unsafe even with the klone, if you armour after you block it then that is 100% reward. The only risk is if you mess up the timing. Oh and never mind the 50/50, his initial klone set ups are unsafe too. You can armour through them as well.

And as stated below, you can just jump over it and do something on block. Sub Zero is forced to back off or he eats the hit on block and klone is gone.

 

[ZeZe]

@Wigy Tried jumping punches? They (well at least some of the character's) connect with Sub and make klone go off on hit (or block) just as they punish parry in Unbreakable. No armour required.

 

[Wigy]

Uh, what?
How on earth does Sub Zero get a meterless vortex? Please elaborate.

And also, armouring out is not risk vs reward. His 50/50 is unsafe even with the klone, if you armour after you block it then that is 100% reward. The only risk is if you mess up the timing. Oh and never mind the 50/50, his initial klone set ups are unsafe too. You can armour through them as well.

And as stated below, you can just jump over it and do something on block. Sub Zero is forced to back off or he eats the hit on block and klone is gone.

In the corner? When i've tried jumping over, i get frozen before the JIP can land.
In the corner he does a HKD and places clone safely. IF HIS CLONE COULDN'T BE CLIPPED THROUGH, after his b2, how can you punish, as he is still standing behind the clone. Either way, his b2 will catch you jumping out or blocking low, his b33 will catch you high, and it loops into itself safely. Vortex isn't the right word cause you can armour out, but i don't get how this is getting downplayed its so good and with the hitbox fix it will be semi broken versus certain characters. You can go on and on about how unsafe and punishable b2 is but neither reo or tom brady were punishing it at all when i watched them play a long set.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

In the corner? When i've tried jumping over, i get frozen before the JIP can land.
In the corner he does a HKD and places clone safely. IF HIS CLONE COULDN'T BE CLIPPED THROUGH, after his b2, how can you punish, as he is still standing behind the clone. Either way, his b2 will catch you jumping out or blocking low, his b33 will catch you high, and it loops into itself safely. Vortex isn't the right word cause you can armour out, but i don't get how this is getting downplayed its so good and with the hitbox fix it will be semi broken versus certain characters. You can go on and on about how unsafe and punishable b2 is but neither reo or tom brady were punishing it at all when i watched them play a long set.

I think you need to go and use the lab to test this yourself, because out of the large number of characters I have tested they all can do a jumping attack right over the klone at sub zero's 50/50 range and hit him, vanishing the klone. You don't get frozen.
And if you're close enough to clip through the klone and hit sub zero after a B2, then you can armour for a punish. Sub Zero uses B2, armour through and punish.

And nobody is downplaying anything. People come in here with completely false information about the klone, and when they're corrected it's labelled as downplaying. You can jump over it in the corner and it's not a vortex. That's not me downplaying the klone, that's me correcting wrong information.

 

[-Deadman-]

In the corner? When i've tried jumping over, i get frozen before the JIP can land.
In the corner he does a HKD and places clone safely. IF HIS CLONE COULDN'T BE CLIPPED THROUGH, after his b2, how can you punish, as he is still standing behind the clone. Either way, his b2 will catch you jumping out or blocking low, his b33 will catch you high, and it loops into itself safely. Vortex isn't the right word cause you can armour out, but i don't get how this is getting downplayed its so good and with the hitbox fix it will be semi broken versus certain characters. You can go on and on about how unsafe and punishable b2 is but neither reo or tom brady were punishing it at all when i watched them play a long set.

NJP (or NJK) should get you out of the pressure, and if it doesn't just pick a variation of your character that has an answer. Having a "broken" to some extent variation makes more sense to me than having a clone you can put your fist through and go unharmed. Adapt.

 

[Wigy]

I think you need to go and use the lab to test this yourself, because out of the large number of characters I have tested they all can do a jumping attack right over the klone at sub zero's 50/50 range and hit him, vanishing the klone. You don't get frozen.
And if you're close enough to clip through the klone and hit sub zero after a B2, then you can armour for a punish. Sub Zero uses B2, armour through and punish.

And nobody is downplaying anything. People come in here with completely false information about the klone, and when they're corrected it's labelled as downplaying. You can jump over it in the corner and it's not a vortex. That's not me downplaying the klone, that's me correcting wrong information.

Completely agree you aren't downplaying, but the way people talk about sub in general seems to be general downplaying. I think jumping over the clone is dependent on placement in the corner cause i've 100% been frozen a number of times trying to jump out. Also a number of characters don't have fast advancing armour so in the corner they are in big trouble.

The b2 cannot be punished after if the hitbox of the clone is fixed is what im saying because you're put behind the clone when u do it on block, it will also catch you jumping out.

So effectively your choice is,
read that he will do a b2 - and use advancing armour (if you even have it) or block high, you're at plus frames but cannot effectively punish as clone is still out
read that he will do a b33 - jump out (if clone placement allows for it) or block low and reversal after.

I'm fully aware that at the moment its flawed because of the hitbox issue but if its fixed its guna be horrible for some characters.

 

[-narshkajke-]

Completely agree you aren't downplaying, but the way people talk about sub in general seems to be general downplaying. I think jumping over the clone is dependent on placement in the corner cause i've 100% been frozen a number of times trying to jump out. Also a number of characters don't have fast advancing armour so in the corner they are in big trouble.

The b2 cannot be punished after if the hitbox of the clone is fixed is what im saying because you're put behind the clone when u do it on block, it will also catch you jumping out.

So effectively your choice is,
read that he will do a b2 - and use advancing armour (if you even have it) or block high, you're at plus frames but cannot effectively punish as clone is still out
read that he will do a b33 - jump out (if clone placement allows for it) or block low and reversal after.

I'm fully aware that at the moment its flawed because of the hitbox issue but if its fixed its guna be horrible for some characters.

habibi, there's ex move and teleport beside jump kick, or you can bait him and force sub to block. b2 is not that fast, you can block it, and after the klone got away he got 2 sec cooldown.
Don't rely on glitch man, rely on skills it's more dependable.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Neutral jumping attacks are actually the more risky ones as they don't advance forward. Just

Completely agree you aren't downplaying, but the way people talk about sub in general seems to be general downplaying. I think jumping over the clone is dependent on placement in the corner cause i've 100% been frozen a number of times trying to jump out. Also a number of characters don't have fast advancing armour so in the corner they are in big trouble.

The b2 cannot be punished after if the hitbox of the clone is fixed is what im saying because you're put behind the clone when u do it on block, it will also catch you jumping out.

So effectively your choice is,
read that he will do a b2 - and use advancing armour (if you even have it) or block high, you're at plus frames but cannot effectively punish as clone is still out
read that he will do a b33 - jump out (if clone placement allows for it) or block low and reversal after.

I'm fully aware that at the moment its flawed because of the hitbox issue but if its fixed its guna be horrible for some characters.

Your right and I agree, it will be horrible for certain characters, but I just think NRS should tackle that issue in a more elegant manner as opposed to leaving a bug in the game.

 

[RVB]

Sub sucked in MK9, however, he was maybe the most unbalanced character in the game. He had plenty 3-7 and many 7-3 as well. All because of that ice clone... Let's face it it's very hard to make a character with that move balanced. That move just doesn't work in a fighting game.

"Many 7-3"??? You have absolutely no clue about MK9 Sub Zero and his matchups!
@ZeZe
Nice video, it just shows how truly broken it is IF A SIMILAR VIDEO SHOWED UP FOR A DIFFERENT CHARACTER EVERYBODY WOULD CRY AND MOAN 10X but since this is Sub Zero this GLITCH WAS INTENDED FOR BALANCE.

@Wigy Why are you here? To tell people you can't get out of the corner??? Here's some pro MLG tips for you :
1.Don't get yourself in the corner, tough to do but you're a big boy and you'll manage.
2.Use armor, I know it's hard to press the block button when you do a special but do try it, it's good for you.
3.You don't have an armor move to blow up the klone in one variation then try the others, you'll be surprised of what you might find, LEARN THE MATCHUP.
You don't see SZ players going crazy over kung jin's bow or dvorahs arms going through the klone yet people like you do go crazy when "you just can't get past the klone".

 

[Tom Brady]

The answer is simple... revert back to having the clone stay on block.

Clone stays on block = B2 still gets punished with cone out by the same characters that punish it now. This way you can still punish SZ when he is unsafe in the corner, you can still armor out, NJ, dash block it, etc.. The only thing you cant do is attack the clone.

 

[RVB]

The answer is simple... revert back to having the clone stay on block.

Clone stays on block = B2 still gets punished with cone out by the same characters that punish it now. This way you can still punish SZ when he is unsafe in the corner, you can still armor out, NJ, dash block it, etc.. The only thing you cant do is attack the clone.

But Bill that would mean that ALL the moaning and crying about Sub Zero prepatch would become in vain. We simply cannot have that.

 

[Wigy]

The answer is simple... revert back to having the clone stay on block.

Clone stays on block = B2 still gets punished with cone out by the same characters that punish it now. This way you can still punish SZ when he is unsafe in the corner, you can still armor out, NJ, dash block it, etc.. The only thing you cant do is attack the clone.

That means you can't JIP him, as on block you will fall on the clone which will still be out.

 

[Wigy]

"Many 7-3"??? You have absolutely no clue about MK9 Sub Zero and his matchups!
@ZeZe
Nice video, it just shows how truly broken it is IF A SIMILAR VIDEO SHOWED UP FOR A DIFFERENT CHARACTER EVERYBODY WOULD CRY AND MOAN 10X but since this is Sub Zero this GLITCH WAS INTENDED FOR BALANCE.

@Wigy Why are you here? To tell people you can't get out of the corner??? Here's some pro MLG tips for you :
1.Don't get yourself in the corner, tough to do but you're a big boy and you'll manage.
2.Use armor, I know it's hard to press the block button when you do a special but do try it, it's good for you.
3.You don't have an armor move to blow up the klone in one variation then try the others, you'll be surprised of what you might find, LEARN THE MATCHUP.
You don't see SZ players going crazy over kung jin's bow or dvorahs arms going through the klone yet people like you do go crazy when "you just can't get past the klone".

I find it funny when people say stuff like in your point 1:
by your logic... MK9 johnny cage is complete trash just don't let him get near you.
The only thing that gets cassie out the corner is her disjointed hitbox, chartwheel doesn't advance and is hellllaaaa punishable on block and whiff.
I should just pick up a different character cause this character is dumb in the corner?

SZ players are probaby the biggest moaners in this community what are you even talking about.

 

[RVB]

That means you can't JIP him, as on block you will fall on the clone which will still be out.

facepalm...yes the tragedy of it all.
This is why we can't have nice things, ya know what I'm DONE... remove the fuckin' klone so I don't have to hear the scrubs complain about it.
HOWZ about a petition to remove "this broken OP tool" and give Sub Zero a TELEPORT ?

 

[Wigy]

facepalm...yes the tragedy of it all.
This is why we can't have nice things, ya know what I'm DONE... remove the fuckin' klone so I don't have to hear the scrubs complain about it.
HOWZ about a petition to remove "this broken OP tool" and give Sub Zero a TELEPORT ?

No JIP allowed so in the corner you just have to eat frosty 50/50 dick? Ah okay.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Lol @ SZ players being the biggest moaners

I think you mean people who play against sub zero are the biggest moaners

 

[Wigy]

Lol @ SZ players being the biggest moaners

I think you mean people who play against sub zero are the biggest moaners

I think i've seen at least 5 topics for buffs on subzero, i've seen a lot more than every other character. Considering he has never been a bad character, this is a bit stupid. Yeah people complain about him the most but the subby community also moans for him the most.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

The buff threads are either A) asking for a blatant bug to be fixed like this thread (that's not asking for a buff), or B) related to his other variations which are pointless when grandmaster exists, and in that case those threads are more than justified. And even in those threads, I can't find any moaning at all. Just people throwing around suggestions.

 

[Wigy]

The buff threads are either A) asking for a blatant bug to be fixed like this thread (that's not asking for a buff), or B) related to his other variations which suck in comparison, and in that case those threads are justified.

There is plenty of characters with variations half as viable they haven't had 5 topics about them, and in these threads i've seen ridiculous universal changes, like his b2 being less negative etc. Also the backlash from his nerf was waaay over the top

By any respect the hitbox issues need fixed. I agree, it should disappear on block, as it does already. Just less downplaying from community pls

 

[RVB]

I find it funny when people say stuff like in your point 1:
by your logic... MK9 johnny cage is complete trash just don't let him get near you.
The only thing that gets cassie out the corner is her disjointed hitbox, chartwheel doesn't advance and is hellllaaaa punishable on block and whiff.
I should just pick up a different character cause this character is dumb in the corner?

Lol NO, by my logic if you know SZ relies heavily on getting you in the corner then you play with that in mind and try your hardest to stay mid screen and IF you do get in the corner then you have to admit that it is YOUR OWN FAULT for letting Sub Zero lock you up in Alkatraz!
Don't drop the soap while you're there!
Same thing with cage in MK9 if you don't play smart and let him in THEN YOU DESERVE TO GET CHIPPED TO DEATH.
As for picking another character LOL NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THAT, just pick another variation with Cassie if you're having trouble with the one you're playing... why is that so hard to do???

No JIP allowed so in the corner you just have to eat frosty 50/50 dick? Ah okay.

You people will never decide on what you actually want the klone to do... It's not good if it stays on block, it's not good if it get's fixed ALL you EVER wanted was the klone to go away permanently...I'm done talking to someone who clearly has a bias towards A GAME FIX.

 

[-narshkajke-]

There is plenty of characters with variations half as viable they haven't had 5 topics about them, and in these threads i've seen ridiculous universal changes, like his b2 being less negative etc. Also the backlash from his nerf was waaay over the top

By any respect the hitbox issues need fixed. I agree, it should disappear on block, as it does already. Just less downplaying from community pls

don't stray from the topic habibi, this thread is about fixing broken moves which is KLONE,, don't rely on glitch habibi, rely on skills.

 

[Tom Brady]

No JIP allowed so in the corner you just have to eat frosty 50/50 dick? Ah okay.

As opposed to eating dick from every other character when they have you cornered? I dont see you crying to make the 50/50s from characters like Raiden and Erron Black unsafe? You think eating safe 50/50's over and over in the corner is any less dumb?

The problem is that you guys HATE that the clone takes away delayed wake up and jump out. If you delay - clone is still there when you get up. SZ also doesnt deal with the "will he wake up attack or will he jump when i respect the option" because you cant jump over the clone and the clone allows SZ to do nothing until he sees you get up.

The difference is that these other characters have safe 50/50s that they can ram out in corners and open space. Several characters actually have 50/50's that leave them ADVANTAGE when blocked. They also have normals that leave them at low negative frames which gives them a powerful up close game. SZ doesnt recover at low negative frames, he has no safe 50/50, his clone cancels are all full combo punished, raw clone is full combo punished, etc... There is opportunity to punish SZ, other characters give you no punish options - you only have the option to guess right as they ram out SAFE 50/50s that kill you.

Also, you actually still cant jump over the clone. SZ can just D4 as you jump and the freeze is unavoidable. Clone going away on block or not, you still cant jump over the clone. The clone staying on block just makes sure that you cant attack right through it and it a much more balanced solution then buffing the collision. TBH, the clone was never really designed to go away on block in the first place which is why we have this issue.

 

[Wigy]

As opposed to eating dick from every other character when they have you cornered? I dont see you crying to make the 50/50s from characters like Raiden and Erron Black unsafe? You think eating safe 50/50's over and over in the corner is any less dumb?

The problem is that you guys HATE that the clone takes away delayed wake up and jump out. If you delay - clone is still there when you get up. SZ also doesnt deal with the "will he wake up attack or will he jump when i respect the option" because clone is out which stops both options.

The difference is that these other characters have safe 50/50s that they can ram out in corners and open space. Several characters actually have 50/50's that leave them ADVANTAGE when blocked. They also have normals that leave them at low negative frames which gives them a powerful up close game. SZ doesnt recover at low negative frames, he has no safe 50/50, his clone cancels are all full combo punished, raw clone is full combo punished, etc... There is opportunity to punish SZ, other characters give you no punish options - you only have the option to guess right as they ram out SAFE 50/50s that kill you.

Also, you actually still cant jump over the clone. SZ can just D4 as you jump and the freeze is unavoidable. Clone going away on block or not, you still cant jump over the clone. The clone staying on block just makes sure that you cant attack right through it and it a much more balanced solution then buffing the collision. TBH, the clone was never really designed to go away on block in the first place which is why we have this issue.

I don't think there should be any safe combo starting 50/50s.

 

[RVB]

@Tom Brady , Bill do you know if anyone from NRS has taken notice of this glitch... are they gonna get their asses in gear for a fix as fast as they did with the nerfs?