Video/Tutorial - Grandmaster Sub-Zero's Ice Clone doesn't work properly

[Tom Brady]

@Tom Brady , Bill do you know if anyone from NRS has taken notice of this glitch... are they gonna get their asses in gear for a fix as fast as they did with the nerfs?

No.. I doubt this will ever get fixed.

All I have heard is that SZ may get another nerf where he can no longer throw you into his clone for a combo. Not sure if it was a NRS troll on me or not but it may or may not be on the table to actually happen.

 

[RVB]

No.. I doubt this will ever get fixed.

All I have heard is that SZ may get another nerf where he can no longer throw you into his clone for a combo. Not sure if it was a NRS troll on me or not but it may or may not be on the table to actually happen.

I'm guessing the corner guaranteed klone grab will be off the table soon enough, Ok so then how does one go about to bring stuff to the attention of our "beloved" NRS.
Is there nobody on this entire forum able to help us out with this matter, the least they could do is tell us what the devs think of it, is this working as intended or is it something they overlooked?

 

[-narshkajke-]

I'm guessing the corner guaranteed klone grab will be off the table soon enough, Ok so then how does one go about to bring stuff to the attention of our "beloved" NRS.
Is there nobody on this entire forum able to help us out with this matter, the least they could do is tell us what the devs think of it, is this working as intended or is it something they overlooked?

can't you guys call colt? I'm quite new, so I don't know how things work around here

 

[Tom Brady]

I'm guessing the corner guaranteed klone grab will be off the table soon enough, Ok so then how does one go about to bring stuff to the attention of our "beloved" NRS.
Is there nobody on this entire forum able to help us out with this matter, the least they could do is tell us what the devs think of it, is this working as intended or is it something they overlooked?

The clone will most likely never be adjusted in a good way. We need to hope that throw into clone stays or SZ becomes pretty bad.

 

[DarthVado]

As opposed to eating dick from every other character when they have you cornered? I dont see you crying to make the 50/50s from characters like Raiden and Erron Black unsafe? You think eating safe 50/50's over and over in the corner is any less dumb?

The problem is that you guys HATE that the clone takes away delayed wake up and jump out. If you delay - clone is still there when you get up. SZ also doesnt deal with the "will he wake up attack or will he jump when i respect the option" because you cant jump over the clone and the clone allows SZ to do nothing until he sees you get up.

The difference is that these other characters have safe 50/50s that they can ram out in corners and open space. Several characters actually have 50/50's that leave them ADVANTAGE when blocked. They also have normals that leave them at low negative frames which gives them a powerful up close game. SZ doesnt recover at low negative frames, he has no safe 50/50, his clone cancels are all full combo punished, raw clone is full combo punished, etc... There is opportunity to punish SZ, other characters give you no punish options - you only have the option to guess right as they ram out SAFE 50/50s that kill you.

Also, you actually still cant jump over the clone. SZ can just D4 as you jump and the freeze is unavoidable. Clone going away on block or not, you still cant jump over the clone. The clone staying on block just makes sure that you cant attack right through it and it a much more balanced solution then buffing the collision. TBH, the clone was never really designed to go away on block in the first place which is why we have this issue.

No one wants safe 50/50's from anyone, it's all dumb and should be fixed. Erron's 50/50's are also not safe unless he has meter, tho using your logic on Ice clone being punishable on reaction with armor moves it's not even safe then in a lot of instances, because it doesn't true block string with several of Erron's strings, and I have never once complained about his few safe 50/50's being removed, I've always praised it.

So no, I don't HATE anything, I just want this issue actually resolved correctly, and to avoid what everyone loves to complain about, which is NRS making changes based on the whims of their audience, and audience that doesn't know the first thing about game design, especially one that doesn't seem to understand that hit boxes on attacks are not always what they appear to be.

 

[DarthVado]

I find it funny when people say stuff like in your point 1:
by your logic... MK9 johnny cage is complete trash just don't let him get near you.
The only thing that gets cassie out the corner is her disjointed hitbox, chartwheel doesn't advance and is hellllaaaa punishable on block and whiff.
I should just pick up a different character cause this character is dumb in the corner?

SZ players are probaby the biggest moaners in this community what are you even talking about.

I'm actually kind of amazed. I've only been posting on this site for a few days now, and I've already learned the dangers of trying to have a real conversation with Sub Zero players.

Over in Gunslinger Erron turf, we, at max, discuss changes that could be made to an agreed low tier character, but there's always the side of worrying if our suggested changes will make him OP. 60% of what I've seen is complaining here that clone doesn't work how they want it too, not whether he actually needs it, or how to adjust the situation, not even what the actual issue behind what's going on. It's just the first thing that pops into their head, and anyone who tries to explain otherwise is just so much noise.

I'd almost say that I want Sub to just get nerfed into the ground now, but I'm not like that, and I don't wish to sacrifice game design for the sake of personal grudges or opinions. Regardless of everything, I just hope NRS deals with the situation with a level head, which for the most part, I think they have gotten better with in MKX.

Have a nice day everyone, I'm out.

 

[DarthVado]

Just a note, I think the thing that might be confusing people
You're referring to hurtboxes not hitboxes
Most people probably realise the error though.
Regardless I kinda agree with you, having larger hurt boxes would make whiff punishing pokes easier and would help with the clone inconsistencies.

Yeah, thanks for the correction, I was a bit confused since a lot of people like to use the terms interchangeably, but yeah I've been meaning hurt boxes.

 

[JimJam92]

This is insane.

You guys just want a win button. This is coming from somebody who plays Sub-Zero exclusively.

There's no rational basis to even suggest reverting the clone back to how it was. That's dumber than all hell. You literally have already removed all the opponents options with the current clone, what more do you want? They'll never poke you out of the standard mix up with Sub. Your neutral jump kick ender will space you too far to be poked while giving you the same oki situation.

You can beat armor with Sub-Zero's clone with an attack. Literally, stop complaining about the only way to stop Sub-Zero.

You're already getting away with some of the dumbest shit in MKX. Characters might have unreactable 50/50's but at least you can armor through them.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

For the 100000th time, I fail to see how wanting a glitch fixed is wanting a win button. I don't want the klone back to how it was, keep it disappearing on block so people can jump over it in the corner or midscreen and not get frozen, whatever, just fix the glitch where people can punch through it.

 

[Zebster]

can't you guys call colt? I'm quite new, so I don't know how things work around here

Well sure, you can always @colt but he might get upset at being called into another thread where most of the people are bickering with each other.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Well sure, you can always @colt but he might get upset at being called into another thread where most of the people are bickering with each other.

So, every thread on TYM? lol

 

[Wigy]

I'm actually kind of amazed. I've only been posting on this site for a few days now, and I've already learned the dangers of trying to have a real conversation with Sub Zero players.

Over in Gunslinger Erron turf, we, at max, discuss changes that could be made to an agreed low tier character, but there's always the side of worrying if our suggested changes will make him OP. 60% of what I've seen is complaining here that clone doesn't work how they want it too, not whether he actually needs it, or how to adjust the situation, not even what the actual issue behind what's going on. It's just the first thing that pops into their head, and anyone who tries to explain otherwise is just so much noise.

I'd almost say that I want Sub to just get nerfed into the ground now, but I'm not like that, and I don't wish to sacrifice game design for the sake of personal grudges or opinions. Regardless of everything, I just hope NRS deals with the situation with a level head, which for the most part, I think they have gotten better with in MKX.

Have a nice day everyone, I'm out.

I agree, i think hit/hurt boxes in this game in general need a COMPLETE rework i think subzero is a pretty stupid flowchart character but this clone isn't working as intended and it should be, although the solution should never be that it stays out on block that is bullshit.

There is plenty of other stupid hit/hurt boxes in the game that need to go with mid's acting as highs, ermacs force blast randomly whiffing and don't get me started on kotal's J1... lol what were they thinking, i don't care where he is in the tier list, that move is so stupid.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I hate playing SZ. I'm bad at the game and I brain dead most matches. I'm not being sarcastic.

Fighting a SZ sucks the fun out of a match. It makes me salty.

But I mean, still, fix the forkin clone. Why is this a debate? If it's intended, it's a silly intended feature and should be fixed. If it's a bug, well, bugs should obviously be fixed.

Shrug, I don't see the side for debate. Fix.da.clone.

 

[BloodyNights]

I tested the clone with Scorpion vs Sub. In the corner right after the klone Scorps cannot poke him due to him being too far away, he can poke him after a successfully blocked overhead with 11. It's also possible to do a yolo read, and D3 his overhead and hit him. But you have to hit him in the middle of his overhead.

I got inconsistent results using Scorpion's b12, sometimes it would freeze him, sometimes it wouldn't.

If this got fixed, it'd basically allow Sub-Zero two 50/50's instead of one. Which is from what I gather what most Sub-Zero players want again.

It does make me wonder how much this simple change would alter matches. Majority of attacks do get frozen, it's generally just quick hitting moves that don't move the character's hurt box forward much.

Either way I could care less. Thanks to Tom, at least we know we have stuff to lab out to avoid the double 50/50 in the corner. lol

 

[MadeOfMetal]

No, if that were the case then it would freeze them before they contacted the clone.

i agree with tom, the clone collision is messed up, hit 3/4 the way through the clone and nothing. hope it gets fixed for your sake @Tom Brady i enjoy watching you hit the finals in mk9 and would like to see the same in mkx.

 

[RVB]

Ok so I've just submitted a bug report on the klone to WB support and I strongly suggest that anyone here, that thinks this needs fixing, do so as well at this link: support.wbgames.com
Hopefully with a combined effort we will see the klone issues sorted out.
With that said let's get to work people!

 

[ZeZe]

Submitted my ticket as well. Hopefully it will bring some results.

 

[RVB]

I was trying to see if you can replicate the klone glitch on a regular basis and it seems that indeed you can AND not only with Raiden's superman :

I wonder how may of these situations actually exist when the klone just doesn't work properly, if any of you guys find more stuff feel free to share them here and attach the videos to the support ticket for NRS to see.
I do not want to hear any more talk about stuff like this being "intended" when it is clear as daylight that it is not.

 

[james1926]

"Many 7-3"??? You have absolutely no clue about MK9 Sub Zero and his matchups!

Maybe not 7-3, maybe 6-4. Doesn't matter. The point is Sub-zero had only a few 5-5 because he couldn't be a balanced character, all because of the ice clone. My point stands.

 

[RVB]

Maybe not 7-3, maybe 6-4. Doesn't matter. The point is Sub-zero had only a few 5-5 because he couldn't be a balanced character, all because of the ice clone. My point stands.

What is your point and what does it have to do with the klone being fixed in MKX ?
From what I gather you are trying to tell me that MK9 SZ was high tier because of the klone and it's the same thing for MKX?
IF that is the case then I must retract my earlier words and say that YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE WHAT MAKES A CHARACTER HIGH TIER, it's not cuz of a single tool or asset it's a combination of multiple factors.
I'm tired of having these pointless discussions while the goal here IS TO FIX A BUG!

 

[buyacushun]

Got it recorded and don't even know how .

Also yeah, it happens to Sub when he's full screen away from Raiden and clone is in the middle. And it's also coin flip chance of Raiden getting frozen or not.

Cant watch the video right now. But if it happens with different spacing that could be electric fly being a move with very interesting ways to program it and/or clone is messed up. Might be the former if you don't have to block to get electric fly to go through. thank you though.

Also what is WAI?

DarthVado can. After all, people poking right through the klone is fine! And standing behind the klone is improper spacing and we should be punished for it! (I'm not making this up, he actually said this)

Once again there are a lot of moves throughout fighters that consist of human limbs with no hurtbox. They aren't invincible DPs or anything. Just regular nomals.

The point is, if a hurtbox/hitbox issue is the case ON THE ATTACKER'S LIMBS AND NOT THE CLONE, then that would be a simple fix that would improve multiple facets of the game. I and I think DarthVado aren't saying nothing should be changed but that this could be entirely on purpose and you just have to do other things besides get 50/50 after 50/50. Or it could be something that NRS decides to change with the normals and it would help.

This is really just 2 theories on the issue of "how clone is working right now" not "how YOU want it to work or THINK it should work".

 

[Zoidberg747]

As someone who still thinks sub is easily top 10, this should be fixed. This is obviously due to bad hurtboxes and they need to fix it, end of.

 

[ZeZe]

Also what is WAI?

Abbreviation for : Works As Intended.

"It's not a fault, it's a feature. Works as intended." - IT Service Desk agents all around the world.

 

[buyacushun]

What is your point and what does it have to do with the klone being fixed in MKX ?

Seeing as how you play SZ. What can you do after a blocked d2? Also, do you play on steam, and would you like to get some matches in?

Abbreviation for : Works As Intended.

"It's not a fault, it's a feature. Works as intended." - IT Service Desk agents all around the world.

Thanks for the help and the info. I hope this "issue" gets looked into. This is another thread showcasing what I thought this community wanted to get away from

 

[DarthVado]

Cant watch the video right now. But if it happens with different spacing that could be electric fly being a move with very interesting ways to program it and/or clone is messed up. Might be the former if you don't have to block to get electric fly to go through. thank you though.

Also what is WAI?



Once again there are a lot of moves throughout fighters that consist of human limbs with no hurtbox. They aren't invincible DPs or anything. Just regular nomals.

The point is, if a hurtbox/hitbox issue is the case ON THE ATTACKER'S LIMBS AND NOT THE CLONE, then that would be a simple fix that would improve multiple facets of the game. I and I think DarthVado aren't saying nothing should be changed but that this could be entirely on purpose and you just have to do other things besides get 50/50 after 50/50. Or it could be something that NRS decides to change with the normals and it would help.

This is really just 2 theories on the issue of "how clone is working right now" not "how YOU want it to work or THINK it should work".

I would like this 100 times if I could, yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about, like word for word.

Seeing as how you play SZ. What can you do after a blocked d2? Also, do you play on steam, and would you like to get some matches in?



Thanks for the help and the info. I hope this "issue" gets looked into. This is another thread showcasing what I thought this community wanted to get away from

Tell people to adapt until it's your character that gets nerfed, then complain about any changes you have to make to your gameplan, it's a proven top tier strat.