Match-up Discussion - Grandmaster Sub-Zero MU Notes

[AcMilan91]

B12 should be your normal punish, unless the punish window is really awkward or small. For some moves, like Bujitsu EX Bo Swing, F4 ice ball is your best (or only) option.

And for b2 jax?

 

[Tanno]

I'll keep it in mind with B12 Ice Ball, I guess I'm always afraid of whiffing at the moment which is why I do 11 Ice Ball. Speed over Damage. Just confidence and Practice really. Never even thought of F4 Ice Ball, I'll try it tonight in the lab.

Don't be afraid of this. The only thing that whiffs is the Ice Klone. All the rest are OK. I even use the B12 to stun temporarily the opponent. I do the B12 and D4 till I catch my opponent off guard to freeze him with B12~Iceball. I would, of course, do the 123 and F33, but the kick ender gives advantage to the opponent to do the D2 or do the low starter combo, so I avoid them.

 

[Braindead]

What the fuck did I just read

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Don't be afraid of this. The only thing that whiffs is the Ice Klone. All the rest are OK. I even use the B12 to stun temporarily the opponent. I do the B12 and D4 till I catch my opponent off guard to freeze him with B12~Iceball. I would, of course, do the 123 and F33, but the kick ender gives advantage to the opponent to do the D2 or do the low starter combo, so I avoid them.

sorry but what the fuck does this mean

 

[D7X]

Unpopular opinion, but I always felt GM beats Blood God 8-2. Most people say 7-3 because of the sun light and damage reduction but he really has 0 tools to fight GM

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Unpopular opinion, but I always felt GM beats Blood God 8-2. Most people say 7-3 because of the sun light and damage reduction but he really has 0 tools to fight GM

I don't Blood or Sun is worse than 6-4. MAYBE Sun God is 7-3. Unpopular opinion I guess.

 

[Braindead]

Unpopular opinion, but I always felt GM beats Blood God 8-2. Most people say 7-3 because of the sun light and damage reduction but he really has 0 tools to fight GM

I don't Blood or Sun is worse than 6-4. MAYBE Sun God is 7-3. Unpopular opinion I guess.

Can't reversal ex pizza get rid of clones after clone cancels?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Can't reversal ex pizza get rid of clones after clone cancels?

I think. I haven't labbed those matchups too much because of how much we raped pre patch.

 

[Tweedy]

Don't be afraid of this. The only thing that whiffs is the Ice Klone. All the rest are OK. I even use the B12 to stun temporarily the opponent. I do the B12 and D4 till I catch my opponent off guard to freeze him with B12~Iceball. I would, of course, do the 123 and F33, but the kick ender gives advantage to the opponent to do the D2 or do the low starter combo, so I avoid them.

true

 

[Braindead]

I think. I haven't labbed those matchups too much because of how much we raped pre patch.

I see. Subby might recover to slide under the pizza though.

Also the fact that Subzero can regular slide to punish b122 regardless whether it was canceled into pizza or not is a big deal in that match.

 

[rubmytaco]

I see. Subby might recover to slide under the pizza though.

Also the fact that Subzero can regular slide to punish b122 regardless whether it was canceled into pizza or not is a big deal in that match.

And for b2 jax?

I honestly don't think you'd realistically get a chance to punish Jax's b2, because it usually gets cancelled into a special or is charged to the point of not being punishable. At -13 on block, b12 would be a pretty tight punish, so I would probably opt for 11.

 

[Tanno]

Maybe for you guys this is the unpopular opinion, BUT... I don't risk myself being punished. A while ago, I noticed that the Iceball when blocked CAN be punished or if you have GOOD reaction you can PREVENT the Iceball. It's the same with the slide. Some characters, like Alien's normal Tail Grab, DO have the ability to break through the Ice Klone. The Frost Bomb is OK, because it pressures the opponent far away from Sub Zero, and if he tried to punish Sub Zero, he wouldn't make it in time to prevent Subby's Bomb. I even avoid the 242, if I see the opponent blocking.

 

[Braindead]

What

the

...................

 

[Tanno]

What

the

...................

Whatever you say.

 

[Braindead]

Whatever you say.

Dude wait are you serious that the iceball can be punished if you're fast enough? How can you do that?!
Teach me!

 

[D7X]

I don't Blood or Sun is worse than 6-4. MAYBE Sun God is 7-3. Unpopular opinion I guess.

Explain 6-4 MU with GM vs. BG?

 

[Tanno]

Dude wait are you serious that the iceball can be punished if you're fast enough? How can you do that?!
Teach me!

It can be punished, and I'm dead serious. You just need to block the B12, and if your opponent does the mistake to do the Iceball, you only need the fastest string to prevent it. His Iceball, in either way, can be passed through, if you DON'T block, while being ducked.

 

[rubmytaco]

Maybe for you guys this is the unpopular opinion, BUT... I don't risk myself being punished. A while ago, I noticed that the Iceball when blocked CAN be punished or if you have GOOD reaction you can PREVENT the Iceball. It's the same with the slide. Some characters, like Alien's normal Tail Grab, DO have the ability to break through the Ice Klone. The Frost Bomb is OK, because it pressures the opponent far away from Sub Zero, and if he tried to punish Sub Zero, he wouldn't make it in time to prevent Subby's Bomb. I even avoid the 242, if I see the opponent blocking.

Why would you get punished exactly? If you mean by using b12 to punish, that's actually less likely to get punished than 11, because b12 can be hit confirmed easily. 11 ice ball is a different deal... You kinda have to commit to that, and if you somehow miss that punish, you're definitely getting punished in return.

Also, you do know you can run in and f42 slide/ice clone after frost bomb, right?

 

[Braindead]

It can be punished, and I'm dead serious. You just need to block the B12, and if your opponent does the mistake to do the Iceball, you only need the fastest string to prevent it. His Iceball, in either way, can be passed through, if you DON'T block, while being ducked.

Wow this is groundbreaking stuff...
What else can you punish?

Don't tell me I can also punish Subzero's slide if I block it...

 

[Tanno]

Why would you get punished exactly? If you mean by using b12 to punish, that's actually less likely to get punished than 11, because b12 can be hit confirmed easily. 11 ice ball is a different deal... You kinda have to commit to that, and if you somehow miss that punish, you're definitely getting punished in return.

Also, you do know you can run in and f42 slide/ice clone after frost bomb, right?

Will test about it in the MUs.

I know about it, too. What if they block the 1st string, and then see that I go for F42~Frost Bomb/Ice Klone? Slide is not an option, because it's risky. I use the slide only if I do a successful combo.

 

[Tanno]

Wow this is groundbreaking stuff...
What else can you punish?

Don't tell me I can also punish Subzero's slide if I block it...

I won't tell about the slide, because everyone already knows about it. There's nothing to punish against Sub Zero, except of Slide, 242, Ice Klone and Iceball. Those are his weak points as GM.

 

[Catnip_Her0]

Isn't stryke a real player from over seas ?

 

[Braindead]

Isn't stryke a real player from over seas ?

Yeah. His post was just a joke.

 

[Tweedy]

Maybe for you guys this is the unpopular opinion, BUT... I don't risk myself being punished. A while ago, I noticed that the Iceball when blocked CAN be punished or if you have GOOD reaction you can PREVENT the Iceball. It's the same with the slide. Some characters, like Alien's normal Tail Grab, DO have the ability to break through the Ice Klone. The Frost Bomb is OK, because it pressures the opponent far away from Sub Zero, and if he tried to punish Sub Zero, he wouldn't make it in time to prevent Subby's Bomb. I even avoid the 242, if I see the opponent blocking.

For sure. This is the kind of stuff that separates a good player from a truly optimized, year + in top player.

I mean shit, even a year in, top players didn't know about punishing Sub Zero's ice ball. It's crazy that even before the 2 year mark, we're discovering stuff like this.

Excuse Braindead, he's kind of, ya know, Braindead. Punishing slide was known by everyone 8 months in, everyone knows that.

I feel like if Sub Zero players avoid d2s by avoiding kick enders such as the 123 and the f33, and use b12 to stun instead of ice ball, they could overcome these "bad" match ups.

 

[Tanno]

For sure. This is the kind of stuff that separates a good player from a truly optimized, year + in top player.

I mean shit, even a year in, top players didn't know about punishing Sub Zero's ice ball. It's crazy that even before the 2 year mark, we're discovering stuff like this.

Excuse Braindead, he's kind of, ya know, Braindead. Punishing slide was known by everyone 8 months in, everyone knows that.

I feel like if Sub Zero players avoid d2s by avoiding kick enders such as the 123 and the f33, and use b12 to stun instead of ice ball, they could overcome these "bad" match ups.

Thanks for the sarcasm.