Strategy Sub-Zero Matchup Discussion Thread

[Lord Beef]

@JnToniio

Bring your ass for this discussion

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I'll take that as a compliment.

Oh but it was

 

[Qwark28]

I need to play this MU again, but last time I played Reno Racks he didn't play Rain.

It just feels like I can't get away from that setup. =/

And about the tech roll... couldn't he blow that up with a lightning?

twitch.tv/zaelock

find my matches with hidan

 

[Braindead]

guys I need some tips on the Cyrax matchup. What I try to do is get the life lead and stay away as far as possible. unless am missing sth, from far away there isnt much cyrax can do. I try to get out of the mine fields and wait for his teleport to punish it. and ALWAYS have enough meter to break.
the only problem is when i DONT get the life lead, thats where the panic kicks in and i get my ass kicked.
any tips u can add?

 

[Qwark28]

guys I need some tips on the Cyrax matchup. What I try to do is get the life lead and stay away as far as possible. unless am missing sth, from far away there isnt much cyrax can do. I try to get out of the mine fields and wait for his teleport to punish it. and ALWAYS have enough meter to break.
the only problem is when i DONT get the life lead, thats where the panic kicks in and i get my ass kicked.
any tips u can add?

remember the reach of d4 and 224

you make him back up into a corner with every step you make

 

[Durango]

So I did some training against Jade and Kano and it turns out these two may be among Sub-Zero's toughest matchups, besides Noob Saibot and Quan Chi. With Jade, she can armor through clones with EX Invincibility, EX Shadow Kick, or EX Staff Slam. To make matters worse, all of these are safe on block. So even if you get her into the corner, you can't punish her, but she can punish you. Clone Jails are practically ineffective.

Kano has Up Ball. This also makes him safe on block. He can armor through Ice Clones, so again, jails aren't effective in the corner.

Noob Saibot doesn't really need to move. He can A-B-C you with flip-kick, shadow clone, or shadow clone slide. Or he'll just teleport. Corner games means little to Noob Saibot besides trying to keep him close so he can't zone-clone you to death.

Quan Chi, as we know, is very safe on whiffed teleports. He's probably the easiest of this group to keep in the corner, but midscreen he is by far the worst. A good Quan Chi is a nightmare for a Sub-Zero; trade ice with trance and he'll win, teleports are safe on whiff, and he can keep his space with Skulls, Trances, etc.

 

[Qwark28]

So I did some training against Jade and Kano and it turns out these two may be among Sub-Zero's toughest matchups, besides Noob Saibot and Quan Chi. With Jade, she can armor through clones with EX Invincibility, EX Shadow Kick, or EX Staff Slam. To make matters worse, all of these are safe on block. So even if you get her into the corner, you can't punish her, but she can punish you. Clone Jails are practically ineffective.

Kano has Up Ball. This also makes him safe on block. He can armor through Ice Clones, so again, jails aren't effective in the corner.

Noob Saibot doesn't really need to move. He can A-B-C you with flip-kick, shadow clone, or shadow clone slide. Or he'll just teleport. Corner games means little to Noob Saibot besides trying to keep him close so he can't zone-clone you to death.

Quan Chi, as we know, is very safe on whiffed teleports. He's probably the easiest of this group to keep in the corner, but midscreen he is by far the worst. A good Quan Chi is a nightmare for a Sub-Zero; trade ice with trance and he'll win, teleports are safe on whiff, and he can keep his space with Skulls, Trances, etc.

quan chi is not safe on whiffed teleports

you should not be throwing ice balls all day long which i assume is what youre doing. skulls can be slid on reaction.

trance you can max distance slide and anything less is a free 22 full combo.

kano is 7-3 subzero favor, upball is not safe, did you even read his frame data?

he cant armour through ice clones. you can slide under knives on reaction and the corner equals to death for him. his strings have more holes than cheese.

noob is 6-4 noob favor. you can block the shadows on reaction unless ridiculously close. shadows trade with iceball. teleport beats autopilot iceballs on reaction. block a teleport and you get 30% to more pressure, get hit by one and he switches sides while only getting 8%. you can blow up ALL his zoning tools on a read for MORE damage than he does.

so jade has to spend a bar to go through clones? you shouldnt try to pressure her all day long. the fact that she HAS to spend meter to deal with the clone and her ineffective and slow damage should be more than enough to tell you this matchup is not tough.

you can neutral duck and full combo punish her shadow kick, ex or not.

she has no zoning, she has no reliable way of getting her meter back except getting beat up.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

So I did some training against Jade and Kano and it turns out these two may be among Sub-Zero's toughest matchups

....what?.....

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Ok nvm, qwark's on it

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

At least this thread is getting revived!

.......................... right? :/

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Lord Beef]

At least this thread is getting revived!

.......................... right? :/

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4 using Tapatalk 2

Holy shit we have threads?!?!?!

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

Holy shit we have threads?!?!?!

I know, right?

LOOK MA! WE BE FAMOUS!

 

[Lord Beef]

I know, right?

LOOK MA! WE BE FAMOUS!

ERRMAHGERD SERB ZERERRRR

 

[Durango]

quan chi is not safe on whiffed teleports

you should not be throwing ice balls all day long which i assume is what youre doing. skulls can be slid on reaction.

trance you can max distance slide and anything less is a free 22 full combo.

kano is 7-3 subzero favor, upball is not safe, did you even read his frame data?

he cant armour through ice clones. you can slide under knives on reaction and the corner equals to death for him. his strings have more holes than cheese.

noob is 6-4 noob favor. you can block the shadows on reaction unless ridiculously close. shadows trade with iceball. teleport beats autopilot iceballs on reaction. block a teleport and you get 30% to more pressure, get hit by one and he switches sides while only getting 8%. you can blow up ALL his zoning tools on a read for MORE damage than he does.

so jade has to spend a bar to go through clones? you shouldnt try to pressure her all day long. the fact that she HAS to spend meter to deal with the clone and her ineffective and slow damage should be more than enough to tell you this matchup is not tough.

you can neutral duck and full combo punish her shadow kick, ex or not.

she has no zoning, she has no reliable way of getting her meter back except getting beat up.

There's a few things though.

1) Kano's EX cannonballs do punch right through clones. And Up Ball is safe from 22.
2) Jade can build meter insanely fast. Invincible mashing and boomerang tosses gets her this quick
3) Quan Chi can also duck a 22 from whiffed teleport.

 

[Qwark28]

There's a few things though.

1) Kano's EX cannonballs do punch right through clones. And Up Ball is safe from 22.
2) Jade can build meter insanely fast. Invincible mashing and boomerang tosses gets her this quick
3) Quan Chi can also duck a 22 from whiffed teleport.

nah.

glow is once every 4 seconds. you're telling me it takes you so long to get in that she can build whole bars using glow 20 times for it? boomerangs are full combo punishable and you should be jumping over them if you can react to the angle

quan chis teleport can be backdash to force him to get it blocked, if he lands in front of you hes already at - frames and you have to delay the 2 to get the punish

like I said, what does kano get from an ex ball and what do you? major difference and you shouldnt be getting hit by random balls

upball is not safe from 22

 

[xQUANTUMx]

^^^^listen to this man, Durango


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Durango]

nah.

glow is once every 4 seconds. you're telling me it takes you so long to get in that she can build whole bars using glow 20 times for it? boomerangs are full combo punishable and you should be jumping over them if you can react to the angle

quan chis teleport can be backdash to force him to get it blocked, if he lands in front of you hes already at - frames and you have to delay the 2 to get the punish

like I said, what does kano get from an ex ball and what do you? major difference and you shouldnt be getting hit by random balls

upball is not safe from 22

It doesn't. But I played an amazing Jade on 360 Ranked once that had me beat. I had to go Jax to finish the player off because she could escape the corner clone every time, punish in the corner using EX, or mix it up well. The Boomerangs weren't really a factor because he wasn't using them unless he had good space between us, and used an Invincibility to cover to avoid trading ice. It was mostly Staff Slam/Staff Upper mixups and breaking clones with Invincible/EX attacks to bust through corners unharmed.

Okay, no one ever said delaying the 2 would help. I could try that in Training mode, but from my experience, every good Quan Chi I played seemed to spam teleports and get away with it scot-free. I was also under the impression that he can teleport behind you.

When you block, of course you get a huge punish advantage. But the problem is I 222-clone in the corner every time. This allows a Kano to do the crazy ball and go past my block and right behind me, so I get no corner advantage. Unless you're implying the Up Ball should be delayed on 22 like Quan Chi's teleport, every time I tried it on training mode (with wakeup attack on) , the 2 would go RIGHT over his ducking head, and with slower timing, he could block.

 

[Qwark28]

It doesn't. But I played an amazing Jade on 360 Ranked once that had me beat. I had to go Jax to finish the player off because she could escape the corner clone every time, punish in the corner using EX, or mix it up well. The Boomerangs weren't really a factor because he wasn't using them unless he had good space between us, and used an Invincibility to cover to avoid trading ice. It was mostly Staff Slam/Staff Upper mixups and breaking clones with Invincible/EX attacks to bust through corners unharmed.

Okay, no one ever said delaying the 2 would help. I could try that in Training mode, but from my experience, every good Quan Chi I played seemed to spam teleports and get away with it scot-free. I was also under the impression that he can teleport behind you.

When you block, of course you get a huge punish advantage. But the problem is I 222-clone in the corner every time. This allows a Kano to do the crazy ball and go past my block and right behind me, so I get no corner advantage. Unless you're implying the Up Ball should be delayed on 22 like Quan Chi's teleport, every time I tried it on training mode (with wakeup attack on) , the 2 would go RIGHT over his ducking head, and with slower timing, he could block.

no good quan chi spams teleports.

when kano ex upballs out of the corner do an ex slide, you both trade a bar while you build it much quicker. or do a throw.

delaying the 2 or doing f4 is what brady has said multiple times.

staff mixups are non existent. you can bait almost all her specials and punish.

 

[Durango]

no good quan chi spams teleports.

when kano ex upballs out of the corner do an ex slide, you both trade a bar while you build it much quicker. or do a throw.

delaying the 2 or doing f4 is what brady has said multiple times.

staff mixups are non existent. you can bait almost all her specials and punish.

Okay, slide would probably help so long as lag doesn't pick it apart and give him a free combo. F4 is risky on a jumping Quan Chi, especially if they're laggy. I'll try that if I see the Jade player online again. Lag can be hell sometimes.

 

[Durango]

Kitana is incredibly dangerous. You can't trade air fans with ice and she can go from screen-wide to in your face in a second; it only takes one wrong ice ball to mess up with. Corner game is nigh-impossible given her options (flying across, EX Fan strike, D1). Also, when she does a fan combo and you block it, she's positive on block, so she can D1 or D3 you before you can get a D3 out. Her own D3 can link into a surefire combo if you're just trying to create space.

 

[Qwark28]

Kitana is incredibly dangerous. You can't trade air fans with ice and she can go from screen-wide to in your face in a second; it only takes one wrong ice ball to mess up with. Corner game is nigh-impossible given her options (flying across, EX Fan strike, D1). Also, when she does a fan combo and you block it, she's positive on block, so she can D1 or D3 you before you can get a D3 out. Her own D3 can link into a surefire combo if you're just trying to create space.

you dont throw iceballs at kitana 99% of the game

corner game does exist

fan combo and you block it? what?

fans are not positive on block. kitanas dont use d3 and her d1 would outspeed your d3 anyways.

D3s in this game dont link to combos unless you dont know how to block

all these matchup inaccuracies could be solved just by reading posts in this subsection and taking a look at some of bradys vids.

 

[Durango]

you dont throw iceballs at kitana 99% of the game

corner game does exist

fan combo and you block it? what?

fans are not positive on block. kitanas dont use d3 and her d1 would outspeed your d3 anyways.

D3s in this game dont link to combos unless you dont know how to block

all these matchup inaccuracies could be solved just by reading posts in this subsection and taking a look at some of bradys vids.

What's the corner game on Kitana? If you air-clone, she'll just toss a fan toss you as you land and get a free combo.

 

[Qwark28]

What's the corner game on Kitana? If you air-clone, she'll just toss a fan toss you as you land and get a free combo.

just search for bradys vids on youtube. if brady is making a vid on it then obviously hes considered that.

 

[Durango]

Sektor problems:

-EX Teleport can't be punished
-Flamethrower can't be punished and covers air
-Sektor frame trap (11 or 12) where he dashes in is hard to escape from
-Quick recovery time makes it hard to punish with slides
-Can only trade ice with missiles, and that's only if you shot first and he doesn't teleport
-Has multiple options for beating clone-corner game; Flamethrower to keep you from jumping or sliding in, teleport to punish your ice

I've always known Sektor was a tough matchup, but Lord Horrowshow took it to another level.

 

[Qwark28]

Sektor problems:

-EX Teleport can't be punished
-Flamethrower can't be punished and covers air
-Sektor frame trap (11 or 12) where he dashes in is hard to escape from
-Quick recovery time makes it hard to punish with slides
-Can only trade ice with missiles, and that's only if you shot first and he doesn't teleport
-Has multiple options for beating clone-corner game; Flamethrower to keep you from jumping or sliding in, teleport to punish your ice

I've always known Sektor was a tough matchup, but Lord Horrowshow took it to another level.

11 and 12 are no frametraps, go look at his frame data.

flamethrower can be punished

ex teleport on block is a free throw

if jump and slide is how you get in, you're doing it wrong.

you can slide missiles

almost all of your problems can be solved by looking at frame data and move hit lvls