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Strategy Sub-Zero Matchup Discussion Thread

Durango

Durango

Enhancer
11 12 leads into a dash or the palm-force move. Punishes jump-outs

Flamethrower can't be punished at max range.

EX Teleport ends with Sektor crouching; this makes him invulnerable to a grab attempt.

Lag punishes dash-blockers with missiles and teleports

Missiles can only be countered by Slide if you do slide first and the missile is just coming out; ends in trade since the missile's hitbox hits the crown of Sub-Zero's head

What do you mean by move hit level?
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Durango said:
11 12 leads into a dash or the palm-force move. Punishes jump-outs

Flamethrower can't be punished at max range.

EX Teleport ends with Sektor crouching; this makes him invulnerable to a grab attempt.

Lag punishes dash-blockers with missiles and teleports

Missiles can only be countered by Slide if you do slide first and the missile is just coming out; ends in trade since the missile's hitbox hits the crown of Sub-Zero's head

What do you mean by move hit level?
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11b1 is a blockstring. 12 is a staggered string. they all hit high

crouching does not make you invulnerable to grabs unless youre not blocking.

you can slide on reaction to missiles at 3/4 of the screen and you will slide under them.

these are all basic mechanics of the game
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Well, what his punch combo does is hard to avoid without taking a hit.

When the EX teleport uppercut happens, he's in a crouching animation, no block. Upon recovering from the duck, he can do a normal uppercut.

I have never done this and I've tried it a good bit.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Durango said:
Well, what his punch combo does is hard to avoid without taking a hit.

When the EX teleport uppercut happens, he's in a crouching animation, no block. Upon recovering from the duck, he can do a normal uppercut.

I have never done this and I've tried it a good bit.
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ex teleport ends in neutral block. if hes crouching without it then its the player, not the move.

its not hard to avoid, it hits high, you should be blowing that shit up with d4
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Cyrax issues, he has jump-punch loops on block. He'll command grab you into punch-punch and into net/saw overhead/command grab. Can't get away even with D3. SmellyBeezwax is a master at this.

Sektor can Flamethrower in the corner. You can't punish his flames unless you throw ice in anticipation, so you can't corner game him. And he has the forward-elbow that leads into punch-punch-uppercut combo that's almost impossible to get away from or counter. I faced Kirbopher and he didn't teleport once until he did a combo.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Durango said:
Cyrax issues, he has jump-punch loops on block. He'll command grab you into punch-punch and into net/saw overhead/command grab. Can't get away even with D3. SmellyBeezwax is a master at this.

Sektor can Flamethrower in the corner. You can't punish his flames unless you throw ice in anticipation, so you can't corner game him. And he has the forward-elbow that leads into punch-punch-uppercut combo that's almost impossible to get away from or counter. I faced Kirbopher and he didn't teleport once until he did a combo.
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Tech the damn command grab. Punish the net. Block the overhead, no reason to block low. Command grab does not link from any string of normal.

Sektor's flamethrower is punishable by slide, you can jump it on anticipation with a JIK. If you have a clone up from a setup then he'll get frozen.

F2 is high, you can D4 him on reaction, this is basic frame data man, if you just looked at sektor's frame data you wouldn't have any problems.
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Tech the command grab? So if you're low-blocking, just hit grab and you can get away from it? Punishing the net only works if I predict it. And interesting, I won't block low on Cyrax anymore. It's a habit. After command grab, they usually jump in punch.

I can only punish Flamethrower from closer range.F ull-range flamethrower and immediate slide he can block it.

I've never read frame data before. Ever. I might look into it. All my experience has come from feel.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Durango said:
Tech the command grab? So if you're low-blocking, just hit grab and you can get away from it? Punishing the net only works if I predict it. And interesting, I won't block low on Cyrax anymore. It's a habit. After command grab, they usually jump in punch.

I can only punish Flamethrower from closer range.F ull-range flamethrower and immediate slide he can block it.

I've never read frame data before. Ever. I might look into it. All my experience has come from feel.
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You can't play the game without frame data. End of story. You will never go behind novice if you don't know frame data.
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
I don't know who reos is, but I am definitely far beyond a beginner player level. I understand some people learn the game different, but I refuse to be treated like a novice.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Durango said:
I don't know who reos is, but I am definitely far beyond a beginner player level. I understand some people learn the game different, but I refuse to be treated like a novice.
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I missed the apostrophe, I meant reo's kabal, the guy who just came in second in EVO and has won many tournaments. But okay, play me on xbl sometime. I'll send you a fr
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
Qwark28 said:
Don't have the game.
Click to expand...
Take a look at these. You seem like a wise player, so I figure the least I can do is show you what I have. I've recorded a few matches if you're interested in watching. I'm doing a channel on playthroughs and matches in fighting games, and once I get my desktop, I'll be doing it again.

 
ryublaze

ryublaze

Noob
Durango said:
Sektor problems:

-EX Teleport can't be punished
-Flamethrower can't be punished and covers air
-Sektor frame trap (11 or 12) where he dashes in is hard to escape from
-Quick recovery time makes it hard to punish with slides
-Can only trade ice with missiles, and that's only if you shot first and he doesn't teleport
-Has multiple options for beating clone-corner game; Flamethrower to keep you from jumping or sliding in, teleport to punish your ice

I've always known Sektor was a tough matchup, but Lord Horrowshow took it to another level.
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You seem pretty good with Sub-Zero. I think if you fought more high level players you'll learn the game better (and also looking at frame data).

Sektor matchup is I think 5-5. Just block the ex teleport and go into pressure or throw. Sektor wastes a bar of meter by doing so. Ice ball trades very well with flamethrower and missiles, but he can also instant air teleport ice balls on reaction. Flame is also negative on block so if you block it then just dash up and d4. You can avoid Sektor's 12 by crouching cuz it hits high so u can just bully him with D4. umm and you'll have the advantage once u get Sektor in the corner.
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
The sad thing is the guy I faced, Kirbopher, was an incredibly sour sport about it. I managed to find him and beat him last time, and even when I sent him respect, he threw a hissyfit over it.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Ok ppl, Kunt Lao's MU. I need tips.
I feel I have to spam D4 against him since it gets me out of his strings. Also this might sound silly but i do uppercuts all the way to punish his teleports, its easy to do on read or reaction and i land it fairly well. But I dont feel uppercuts are enough, whats the best way to punish KL's teleports?
 
xQUANTUMx

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
Braindead said:
Ok ppl, Kunt Lao's MU. I need tips.
I feel I have to spam D4 against him since it gets me out of his strings. Also this might sound silly but i do uppercuts all the way to punish his teleports, its easy to do on read or reaction and i land it fairly well. But I dont feel uppercuts are enough, whats the best way to punish KL's teleports?
Click to expand...
Jump away/ dash away, bait a whiffed combo
D1 into 212 freeze
Back away 22 freeze into combo




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
ryublaze

ryublaze

Noob
Braindead said:
Ok ppl, Kunt Lao's MU. I need tips.
I feel I have to spam D4 against him since it gets me out of his strings. Also this might sound silly but i do uppercuts all the way to punish his teleports, its easy to do on read or reaction and i land it fairly well. But I dont feel uppercuts are enough, whats the best way to punish KL's teleports?
Click to expand...
I do 212 ice ball dash b12 22 slide
 
Durango

Durango

Enhancer
I faced bootyslaya's Scorpion and couldn't get a single game on him. 111 into f4,3 KILLS Sub-Zero's D4. There's no spacing out of it. How do I get a Scorpion off of me who uses this string?
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Durango said:
I faced bootyslaya's Scorpion and couldn't get a single game on him. 111 into f4,3 KILLS Sub-Zero's D4. There's no spacing out of it. How do I get a Scorpion off of me who uses this string?
Click to expand...
i think f4 is slower than subby's d4.. either way if you block the f4,3 its punishable so u can get out after that
 
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