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Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

K

KingJerm731

Psn: kingjermx
For instance, in the female corner combo b2 b2 d1 b3xx clone njp jip1 f12, the freeze after happens at different heights based on execution. I've found that no matter what height the opposition is frozen they still bounce to the same height. You might have to delay the njp but not the jip.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
U lose the armor break but it's a safe clone set up , I would rather default to the safe clone ender instead of risking a dropped f12 off some goofy set up I had to use
 
H

Hor_PeT

Noob
I always wanted to see a match up chart against Grandmaster to confirm my feelings.

Good to see that two of my friends picked Dvorah and Tremor and I recently picked GM after Ninjitsu ... 7-3 will not be fun for so long. :)
Riding the dead horse... :S
 
zoofs

zoofs

bless
llabslb said:
Anyone want to help me out with the figures on the MU Chart? I'm free now.
Click to expand...
heres my updates on the bigger chart, some are roughly opinions or just theory fighting because I don't play them enough though

- crystalline probably 7-3, ask @InFlames for extra reasoning as to why its probably just as bad as aftershock if not worse
- metallic possible 5-5 unless someone has reasoning as to why its bad, this seems like the only fair tremor variation atm
- blood god 7-3, war god 5-5
- dragon fangs probably 5-5, no reasoning why it should be that bad
- summoner 5-5, I would like someone to explain to me why they feel this mu is so bad as a lot of people on tym say it is but I've never struggled as its all momentum based
- displacer 5-5, master of storms who tf knows but maybe 5-5
- venomous is still bad at least 6-4, brood mother who tf knows but possibly 6-4 due to basic tools even though this variation is terrible
- vicious at least 4-6, the matchup is playable but i think people started to overlook this and its still hard
- ronin and shirai ryu probably 4-6, harder than most people think
- piercing 5-5 especially if beta changes stay
- gunslinger 6-4
- necro 5-5? who knows honestly but id like to hear someones insight on this as ive never played it
- hellfire potential 4-6, especially if beta changes stay
- assassin 5-5 maybe
- possessed 5-5
- special forces 5-5? once again very unaware of this matchup but id like to hear why its unfavourable
- pumped up 5-5
- buzzsaw 5-5

rest looks pretty okay but i might be forgetting a couple
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
llabslb said:
Anyone want to help me out with the figures on the MU Chart? I'm free now.
Click to expand...
War God- 6-4 in subs favor
Sun God- 7-3 sub
Blood God- 7-3 sub
Dualist- 6-4
Flame fists- maybe 6-4??
Dragons fire- 5-5
Slasher 7-3(8-2??)
Relentless 7-3
Unstoppable 7-3
Ninjutsu 6-4
 
llabslb

llabslb

R1D1_998
zoofs said:
heres my updates on the bigger chart, some are roughly opinions or just theory fighting because I don't play them enough though

- crystalline probably 7-3, ask @InFlames for extra reasoning as to why its probably just as bad as aftershock if not worse
- metallic possible 5-5 unless someone has reasoning as to why its bad, this seems like the only fair tremor variation atm
- blood god 7-3, war god 5-5
- dragon fangs probably 5-5, no reasoning why it should be that bad
- summoner 5-5, I would like someone to explain to me why they feel this mu is so bad as a lot of people on tym say it is but I've never struggled as its all momentum based
- displacer 5-5, master of storms who tf knows but maybe 5-5
- venomous is still bad at least 6-4, brood mother who tf knows but possibly 6-4 due to basic tools even though this variation is terrible
- vicious at least 4-6, the matchup is playable but i think people started to overlook this and its still hard
- ronin and shirai ryu probably 4-6, harder than most people think
- piercing 5-5 especially if beta changes stay
- gunslinger 6-4
- necro 5-5? who knows honestly but id like to hear someones insight on this as ive never played it
- hellfire potential 4-6, especially if beta changes stay
- assassin 5-5 maybe
- possessed 5-5
- special forces 5-5? once again very unaware of this matchup but id like to hear why its unfavourable
- pumped up 5-5
- buzzsaw 5-5

rest looks pretty okay but i might be forgetting a couple
Click to expand...
Special Forces: totally out zoned, her drone shot which is a mid basically tells the clone to fuck off. If the sub tries to attack whilst that's about they risk getting hit by a full combo. Almost like tremors tracking properties.

Assassin: I feel as if her tools in this variation are much too limited for it to be considered like royal storm.

Necro: I just assumed it would win considering the zoning tools in it are much better and the offence isn't half bad (correct me if I'm wrong)

Metallic: Tremor still has his fundamental tools like rock tracking etc. Borderline unfavourable match up but not even.

Summoner: I just think it's pretty easy for quan to gain the momentum with sub which obviously is a big thing if you're quan.

Master of storms: his orbs are practically useless in this match up and considering they're highs, it's extra bullshit for him
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
llabslb said:
Special Forces: totally out zoned, her drone shot which is a mid basically tells the clone to fuck off. If the sub tries to attack whilst that's about they risk getting hit by a full combo. Almost like tremors tracking properties.

Assassin: I feel as if her tools in this variation are much too limited for it to be considered like royal storm.

Necro: I just assumed it would win considering the zoning tools in it are much better and the offence isn't half bad (correct me if I'm wrong)

Metallic: Tremor still has his fundamental tools like rock tracking etc. Borderline unfavourable match up but not even.

Summoner: I just think it's pretty easy for quan to gain the momentum with sub which obviously is a big thing if you're quan.

Master of storms: his orbs are practically useless in this match up and considering they're highs, it's extra bullshit for him
Click to expand...
Assassin is actually pretty good in the beta maybe slight advantage sub
Necro is kinda ass but might be even
Agree on tremor
The only momentum sub can really get is in the corner as Quan has the advantage anywhere on screen but there.
 
zoofs

zoofs

bless
up rock isn't even really that huge of a deal in the matchup lol, it isn't why aftershock or crystalline are so bad. I do think tremor still kinda beats sub in the neutral regardless of variation though so metallic might have a very slight adv
 
crosshair271

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
KingJerm731 said:
I dash forward after every freeze and I never have f12 drop. It could be a jip issue. Do you use 1 or 2?
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Just do instant ji2 after NJP. It lets Sub get to the ground while the opponent is in extra hitstun because ji2 has more stun than ji1. Anyways I don't see a scenario where you'd use the 242 combo anymore since the universal B2 combo. If it's because of the slightly spaced setup where B2 B2 knocks them into the Klone you may as well Klone Shatter combo.

 
K

KingJerm731

Psn: kingjermx
crosshair271 said:
Just do instant ji2 after NJP. It lets Sub get to the ground while the opponent is in extra hitstun because ji2 has more stun than ji1. Anyways I don't see a scenario where you'd use the 242 combo anymore since the universal B2 combo. If it's because of the slightly spaced setup where B2 B2 knocks them into the Klone you may as well Klone Shatter combo.

Click to expand...
If you have a shatter setup and go for say, a standing one as bait. When you go for the overhead the clone cool down won't be up for the standard corner combo. Substitute b2 242 1 b12 xx clone blah blah blah.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Ronin doesn't give a fuck about clone , no variation of takeda does , if u back away from clone to space out his sword normals he's gonna just out zone you
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
That's stupid oh/low starter is hard to block , and then armoring out of the blade drop jus kills me , I'm horrible against pressure characters
 
llabslb

llabslb

R1D1_998
llabslb said:
Match up chart update
I have now included all variations, figures are probably inaccurate as I rushed through most. I'm pretty sure I have the Grandmaster v Swarm Queen match up down though. Discuss what must be adjusted.



@Dankster Morgan @zoofs @Lokheit @boba_buster @RM Ree
@Snoop88 I did what you said
Click to expand...
I changed some stuff around, is there a match up thread btw? I think it would be appropriate for this chart to be on front once its done.
 
Creepy00

Creepy00

Noob
Hmm, looking on the GM mu chart, there some matches I feel sub does better or a bit worse.
vs. Dragon Fire Liu Kahn 5-5
vs. Necromancer Shinnok 5-5
vs. Special Forces Sonya 5-5
vs. Demo Sonya 4-6
vs. Boj Kung jin 5-5

I also have some .5 as well, but that is me not being as familiar as other mus. Everything else, I can agree with for the majority.
 
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