Match-up Discussion - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GM Match Ups

[darthdragonking]

I dont know any match ups but but most players i can beat when im not garbage but who gives me problems is kung lao quan chi melena and sometimes liu kang idk what to do aginst them

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Any tips against D'Vorah guys? I keep getting melted by a good one

 

[RM Ree]

D'Vorah, ugh... Can someone post some good match footage for reference? That was a great place to start and end with Kano MU a few posts back.

 

[Creepy00]

Are you guys talking before the most recent patch? Because patch notes say it went from -27, to -5. Patch hasn't hit PC yet but that's pretty much in punishable on block if that's the case, you may be able to whiff punish with something

Ree is right EX kano upball is safe, I got it confuse since no one mention EX or MB, just upball. Dumb mistake from my part.

But I did find out that if the second hit of EX upball doesn't connect on block, then you can punish it with b12. This only works if you are crouching blocking and in sweep distance. So, if you knock down kano and he does wake ex upball, you can punish it if you are crouch blocking.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Ree is right EX kano upball is safe, I got it confuse since no one mention EX or MB, just upball. Dumb mistake from my part.

But I did find out that if the second hit of EX upball doesn't connect on block, then you can punish it with b12. This only works if you are crouching blocking and in sweep distance. So, if you knock down kano and he does wake ex upball, you can punish it if you are crouch blocking.

Holy crap that's amazing dude

 

[RM Ree]

Huh... This isn't the same experience I had in the lab. Ex black dragon ball is a tighter punish than normal Kano ball, but you can definitely buffer in a b12 to punish it, even when stand blocking.

Both of those Ball strikes are mid too, aren't they? Is this another odd interaction with SZ's smaller hurt box?

 

[Creepy00]

This is interesting, if timed properly you can trade with kano ex upball with slide and punish with b12. The armor absorbs the damage normally, but leaves subzero on a recovery state and in place, thus allowing you to recover fast enough to punish. It is a weird thing to explain tbh.

Also, hooray for subzero having a smaller hurtbox lol

 

[RM Ree]

I see what you're saying now, good find.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Ex slide or regular?

 

[Creepy00]

Ex slide or regular?

Regular slide. It just happens to lower subzero hurtbox low enough that makes kano 's ex upball(mids) whiff lol.

I haven't tried ex slide, so I can't say if it works.

 

[Endeavor]

Any tips against D'Vorah guys? I keep getting melted by a good one

That match up comes down too footies and spacing. Your going to have to do A LOT of spacing. Don't do b12xxClone too often as she can just poke out of it. F42 clone is good for open space but not the corner. In the corner if you want a clone set up use F4xxClone. Back away after almost every clone and whiff punish her d3/d4 with slide on reaction. If she does any string or poke into puddle ex slide out or jump out.

 

[silva_777]

What about Lao? seems and uphill battle, the difference in damage sometimes is too much, I need to hit him clear far more times than he has, and he as and easier time doing it.

Anyway:

1) what to do against his teleport? raw and on block?
2) any gaps to explore?

 

[HeaTuR]

The only match up i am having problems with is Ermac(master of souls). anyone got some advise?

 

[Snoop88]

What about Lao? seems and uphill battle, the difference in damage sometimes is too much, I need to hit him clear far more times than he has, and he as and easier time doing it.

Anyway:

1) what to do against his teleport? raw and on block?
2) any gaps to explore?

Against Lao I sometimes place clone but instead of hiding behind him I move in front of him so now when Kung will teleport he will go directly into the clone. If someone is unaware of it they will get caught few times. Disadvantage of it is that it place you in an open space against Lao who has still more tools to hit you. Risky strategy but sometimes it works.

Worst matchups I have against D'vorah and Kenshi. D is a real pain in the ass with her pressure game. My friend plays her really good and I got some though though times against her. Kenshi with his zoning tools which goes through the clone is also a good match up against sub.

 

[Mr_Swizzer]

still grinding the predator matchup out

 

[Dynasty]

how do yall deal with fuck ass kenshi

 

[RM Ree]

Neutral crouch tele-flurry (hits high), run in, 11 xx ice ball, full combo. Fuzzy guard every string since he only has 1 low starter and 2 strings that end in OH.

 

[Dynasty]

Neutral crouch tele-flurry (hits high), run in, 11 xx ice ball, full combo. Fuzzy guard every string since he only has 1 low starter and 2 strings that end in OH.

good lookin out

 

[STK]

I finally came across the kenshi match-up and was completely lost? I im throwing out a clone to stand behind it does me no good because of the projections from Ken. Ice ball never traded. and i couldn't punish (possessed) projections up close on block string because my 11 or b12 didn't reach and there only -10. any help?

 

[boba_buster]

I treat possessed like I treat summoner quan , rush in on him and don't give him any time or space. If u get downed half a screen jus backdash to get full screen away then whiff a slide to cover ground quickly

 

[RM Ree]

Possessed is real strong man. I'd say for those 10 frame punishes, try slide if you're up close? I think it's a frame perfect though, I haven't labbed it.

Seems like a rough match up. I'd recommend watching PigOfTheHut's Possessed Kenshi video guide. You can look for what's really dangerous in there and practice counters. That'd be a good place to start.

 

[////Antaeus////]

Any thoughts on Tremor?

Here are some observations

-b12, b33, f42 and a bunch of other random strings cancelled into clone are safe for sub
-Tremor's j3 works fairly well for jumping over the clone. If spaced correctly it hits sub even if he is crouching
-Tremor's d4 punishes a blocked b2 through the clone, d4 can also be used to poke through the clone and prevent Sub from approaching
-All versions of db1 'stop' when they make contact with the clone (as if they stopped a projectile)
-db3, dd4 bypass the clone
-bf4, db3b is good vs slide
-Slow start up on projectiles makes Tremor very susceptible to getting blown up by ice ball
-db1 can be done on reaction to ice ball (barely). db1 dose not stop ex ice ball
-The armour of dd1 dose nothing against unbreakable's counters or any other counter (I think)
-For mix ups I have been doing 2,1,d3 cancelled into either db2d, db1d or dd1. The cancel into dd1 is to punish attempts to interrupt Tremor's slow ass specials
-dd1 allows you to punish slide and 'frost bomb' on hit
-After dd1 Tremor may be at frame advantage when hit with the clone shatter or toss. Seems to vary depending on distance- the closer the clone is tossed/shattered the more advantage Tremor has, when used at a distance Sub is plus but less than if Tremor just blocks
-Sub can low profile the majority of Tremor's significant strings with his d3 to avoid pressure
-Tremor's d4 has nearly as much range as Sub's d4

 

[Leito360]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned a MU against Ermac (Specially Spectral), he just kept punishing every clone attempt with a teleport, not mentioning he kept using his superman to keep pressuring me, his D-3 poked me in the corner, and his telekinetic range and attacks are also very good.

 

[STK]

Ive noticed playing the kenshi matchup and a few others even tho im grandmaster sub i only use clone for meterless corner combos. Clone placement is only good for wake up situations. Like after a corner kD. its almost safe to say that 5 months into the game mid scren clone placement is played out. At least on certain characters.

 

[STB BroZki]

Having some serious issues with Kobu Tanya. Any advise guys?