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Sub-Zero General Discussion

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Umgadi trailet at the beginning when Li Mei is comboing Raiden
Is that single clip and Kameo move the only thing we have seen from the Sub-Zero Kameo? I wonder what other moves he will have. It’d be cool if he had his classic ice shower and it be an overhead.
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
Is that single clip and Kameo move the only thing we have seen from the Sub-Zero Kameo? I wonder what other moves he will have. It’d be cool if he had his classic ice shower and it be an overhead.
He has a buff that negates projectiles. You can see it in the Smoke Kombat Kast
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
I could see him having Ice Shower, but I think they're gonna give him Ice Puddle. Its another iconic Sub move that Bi Han doesn't have, so it'd make sense to give it to the kameo. They kinda did the same for Scorpion with how kameo scorp has the iconic moves Kuai Liang doesn't have with flame breath and ninjitsu overhead.
 

Ardet

Noob
I could see him having Ice Shower, but I think they're gonna give him Ice Puddle. Its another iconic Sub move that Bi Han doesn't have, so it'd make sense to give it to the kameo. They kinda did the same for Scorpion with how kameo scorp has the iconic moves Kuai Liang doesn't have with flame breath and ninjitsu overhead.
Pudle for restands or parry shield from unbreakable sub.
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
Pudle for restands or parry shield from unbreakable sub.
Oooohh now that would be a good one. We haven't seen any type of parry assists yet I don't think. Maybe it would function like Cyber Subs parry where you call Sub Kameo, he comes out and freezes YOU, and if you get hit that freezes the opponent
 

Ardet

Noob
Oooohh now that would be a good one. We haven't seen any type of parry assists yet I don't think. Maybe it would function like Cyber Subs parry where you call Sub Kameo, he comes out and freezes YOU, and if you get hit that freezes the opponent
We found out third move. Its shoulder charge. Meh... Wanted something more interesting. But I quess it will be good for characters that dont have fast advancing move to punnish unsafe long range moves. It will go good with Kitana for example.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
We found out third move. Its shoulder charge. Meh... Wanted something more interesting. But I quess it will be good for characters that dont have fast advancing move to punnish unsafe long range moves. It will go good with Kitana for example.
Really? Guess Kameo Sub-Zero is off my list lol
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
We found out third move. Its shoulder charge. Meh... Wanted something more interesting. But I quess it will be good for characters that dont have fast advancing move to punnish unsafe long range moves. It will go good with Kitana for example.
Damn that sucks. No double Sub-Zero lol. Frost will probably be my day 1 kameo while I learn the game.
 

Ardet

Noob
Damn that sucks. No double Sub-Zero lol. Frost will probably be my day 1 kameo while I learn the game.
I mean he still has 2 of 3 kameo assist really good. One is stun for meterless damage, second is "fuck zoning" (which might be best assist since its ambush aswell) and third will be good for characters without forward advancing specials. I think he will be one of most used kameos cuz of anti-zone assist, since most ppl hate zoning and like to constantly pressure enemies.
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
You know I don't think we've seen it yet, but if there was a character like with an Error Black style dynamite move that hit both players, I wonder if Sub Kameo would be able to protect you from it, opening up some crazy fucked up pressure situations.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Can you react to Sub-Zero’s b2, or is b2/b3 a true 50/50?
I think B2 is 24 frames and B3 is 12 if it hasn’t changed. I think that’s pushing it. Sub-Zero also leans back a little before bringing down the frozen spine, so the startup is somewhat distinctive. Triborg in MKX’s overhead was like 23 frames I think and he was still messing people up, but his low may have been slower than Sub-Zero’s too. I bet with the right kameo he will have enough going on that it will be very hard to react to.
 

Ardet

Noob
Heartbreakingly I finally found my solution, but couldn't test it any further because the beta ended early.

b3,4 is the answer. It has 2 extra frames of advantage, and more importantly has more range than 3,4. I wasn't able to completely test this out, but I was able to complete the next part of the puzzle with finding the advantage and the reach I needed.

Unfortunately I don't think I'll look further into this when the game comes out. There's too many cool cameos and characters I want to try out over Jax. But this was a super fun experiment. And maybe some future lab monster will take this info and find some truly broken shit.
Did you try regular corner ground pound setup without clone? Like, end combo with slide, call Jax and do NJK. Does slide grants you this ground pound setup?
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
Did you try regular corner ground pound setup without clone? Like, end combo with slide, call Jax and do NJK. Does slide grants you this ground pound setup?
I don't have access to the frame data right now, so off the top of my head slide gives you only 13 or 15 frames of advantage, and his b2 overhead has like 22-23 frame startup. So if you tried a b2 after slide you'd get stuffed by wakeup buttons.
b3,4 has something like 29 frames of advantage, but, it has a different reaction when they're in the air because combo gravity makes them fall a bit sooner. I couldn't exactly tell how much advantage you got, but I was hoping because they were hit so high in the air it would still give 20+ frames of advantage. I wont know until the game comes out and I can use training mode.

Either way it doesn't matter as far as Jax is concerned tho. From what I could tell in testing, his Ground Pound resets are fake. Because you can crouch block, and the ground pound makes you fast fall to the ground while seemingly being invincible.

I mention it here

 

Ardet

Noob
I don't have access to the frame data right now, so off the top of my head slide gives you only 13 or 15 frames of advantage, and his b2 overhead has like 22-23 frame startup. So if you tried a b2 after slide you'd get stuffed by wakeup buttons.
b3,4 has something like 29 frames of advantage, but, it has a different reaction when they're in the air because combo gravity makes them fall a bit sooner. I couldn't exactly tell how much advantage you got, but I was hoping because they were hit so high in the air it would still give 20+ frames of advantage. I wont know until the game comes out and I can use training mode.

Either way it doesn't matter as far as Jax is concerned tho. From what I could tell in testing, his Ground Pound resets are fake. Because you can crouch block, and the ground pound makes you fast fall to the ground while seemingly being invincible.

I mention it here

You didnt understand what I asked. I asked can you call Jax at the middle of slide animation lets say and do immidiatly NJK for HTB? Like after Liu's bicycle kick ender or Li Mei's punches special? Do you have enought advantage to do htb with NJK? And if its true that ground pound will not launch you high when you crouch block, I think it does not matter since you can do late NJK and still pick them up for combo?
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
You didnt understand what I asked. I asked can you call Jax at the middle of slide animation lets say and do immidiatly NJK for HTB? Like after Liu's bicycle kick ender or Li Mei's punches special? Do you have enought advantage to do htb with NJK? And if its true that ground pound will not launch you high when you crouch block, I think it does not matter since you can do late NJK and still pick them up for combo?
You can call Jax during slide, but again, I believe those Liu Kang/Li Mei reset combos you see are fake. You can crouch block during Jaxs Ground Pound and, from my testing at least, appear to be completely intangible
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Most importantly, why is it called Bi Juan?

And why is it a Sub-Zero skin and not a Kung Lao skin? Or even Raiden? The characters with big goofy hats? Not the self serious asshole SZ, they could have ditched the hat and made him look meaner and it'd be a cool skin. I like all the edgy shit and it'd fit Bi Han
 

smaddy

I'm your huckleberry
They definitely updated damage scaling. At least for Sub-Zero. His super easy combos doing 400 damage from the beta do a shade over 300 now
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Have any of you guys had a chance to see which kameos he gets a B3 launch off of? Aside from the ones in the beta obviously