Sub-Zero General Discussion

[Rude]

I'm a pretty big fan of Frost Kameo with Sub. Nothing super crazy cause if you're not careful she can fuck with your damage scaling, but I think her floaty ice ball and ice low launcher add a lot to Sub's gameplan.

Particularly if you can get the clone out and get her ice ball out. Just fill the screen with bullshit.

That said, Kano still seems to be the best Kameo. Lol

 

[mrapchem]

SubFrost gets 36% midscreen no meter

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I saw sub zero cancel an enemy frost's orb with his ice clone punch. So far, no other character (that I saw) can cancel her orb with a projectile clash...

 

[Juggs]

I saw sub zero cancel an enemy frost's orb with his ice clone punch. So far, no other character (that I saw) can cancel her orb with a projectile clash...

Yeah his ice klone and ice klone projectile both cancel out other projectiles. Which is another reason why I said he’s gonna be a stronger defensive character than anything else imo. There could be other characters in the full game that may have projectiles that cancel out other ones, but I have a feeling it’s something unique to Sub-Zero.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

How useful is iceball during combos? I know sub can use it in when calling Kano's knife toss, but is it worth it or the scaling just makes the combo get the overall same damage?

 

[Kiss the Missile]

2 more steps forward 2 steps back with this Sub setup. The whole idea of that combo I posted was to end in 3,4. Its his most advantageous ender at 20-something frames. It isn't that advantageous in this combo because of the gravity scaling, but until I get a practice mode with frame viewer I wont know exactly. If I can still get it to be at least +20 then I'll be able to hit with a meaty b2 overhead.

Its hard to test when the AI does whatever it wants, but I'm trying to see if I can somehow force the situation. In my head, what I want to work is I b2 overhead you on wakeup and cancel the first hit into EX Ice Clone (Only EX Ice Clone will hit, regular does nothing unfortunately). Either you block it, but you're stand blocking so you get popped up into clone from Jax, or you get hit by the overhead and . . . . idk yet. It seems if Jax's Unblockable hits in a combo, they instantly fall down like the crouch block animation.


Well with some more testing I found 2 things. If during the combo, after the b2 popup I do 1,1xxEX DiveKick then I'm able to get the advantage I'm looking for, but B2 doesn't seem to reach from the distance I land after the 3,4. If during the combo I do 1,2xxEX DiveKick then the B2 will reach, but I lose the advantage I need for it to be meaty.

Compromises. More testing is needed

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I'm a pretty big fan of Frost Kameo with Sub. Nothing super crazy cause if you're not careful she can fuck with your damage scaling, but I think her floaty ice ball and ice low launcher add a lot to Sub's gameplan.

Particularly if you can get the clone out and get her ice ball out. Just fill the screen with bullshit.

That said, Kano still seems to be the best Kameo. Lol

Tried out frost kameo just now for a couple hours. Filling the screen with bullshit seems to work pretty well, I was able to time out people semi reliably, which might end up being a thing. People not knowing how to deal with him yet is surely part of it, but who knows.

The frost low ice thing makes Liu Kang players especially pretty scared to just chuck fireballs from full screen it seems like.

I won’t have time to play anymore before the beta is over, definitely wanted to experiment with ice orb in the corner.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

And with all that being said, Sonya can kick rocks, Frost adds much more to his zoning, and he can still combo off his low with frost, it’s just unsafe. Unless I’m missing something.

 

[shoshinsha]

Best corner combo I've been able to find so far in terms of damage and meter usage is as follows:
f12~df3 mb, nj.2, b2, b2, 4~db1, j.4, 4~bf3
Does ~38% for one bar and no assist usage. You can also sub out either of the standing 4s with f12s depending on height for approx the same damage. I'm sure there's better with some clever resource use.

Also found some fun little side switch tech. Midscreen, you can do the following:
f12~df3 mb, crossover late j.4~db1 (clone freeze), b2, walk forward, f12~bf3
Does 32% for one bar and no assist and switches sides with the opponent.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Heartbreakingly I finally found my solution, but couldn't test it any further because the beta ended early.

b3,4 is the answer. It has 2 extra frames of advantage, and more importantly has more range than 3,4. I wasn't able to completely test this out, but I was able to complete the next part of the puzzle with finding the advantage and the reach I needed.

Unfortunately I don't think I'll look further into this when the game comes out. There's too many cool cameos and characters I want to try out over Jax. But this was a super fun experiment. And maybe some future lab monster will take this info and find some truly broken shit.

 

[Juggs]

Heartbreakingly I finally found my solution, but couldn't test it any further because the beta ended early.

b3,4 is the answer. It has 2 extra frames of advantage, and more importantly has more range than 3,4. I wasn't able to completely test this out, but I was able to complete the next part of the puzzle with finding the advantage and the reach I needed.

Unfortunately I don't think I'll look further into this when the game comes out. There's too many cool cameos and characters I want to try out over Jax. But this was a super fun experiment. And maybe some future lab monster will take this info and find some truly broken shit.

The beta is back up btw for a few more hours

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I won't be able to play the beta more unfortunately, but if any of you guys play around with Frost floating orb in the corner, please post about it. That was gonna be my next goal.

Also, how safe / unsafe do you guys think F12 x klone on block is?

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I believe the dream is dead.

Doing more testing with 3,4 GP, it seems as if the opponent is actually completely intangible when they have that shallow hit reaction, this is the same reaction they have when they're crouch blocking the GP btw. I don't believe I have any other way of testing this right now, if they really are unhittable. I tried insta air dive kicking, but funny enough Jax will hit Sub out of the air with it, even tho he wont hit him out of 3,4.

Only other way I can think to test right now is call Jax, and then use chilling vapors as they call, but its a pain in the ass to set up because I need to call Jax while he's in range of them, but not me. So idk right now.


But as it stands now I believe that any and all Jax Unblockable followups are completely fake. You'll have to eat the overhead sure, but all those Liu Kang/Li Mei setups with him you're seen all over Twitter don't work. You can crouch block and be perfectly fine.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Best corner combo I've been able to find so far in terms of damage and meter usage is as follows:
f12~df3 mb, nj.2, b2, b2, 4~db1, j.4, 4~bf3
Does ~38% for one bar and no assist usage. You can also sub out either of the standing 4s with f12s depending on height for approx the same damage. I'm sure there's better with some clever resource use.

Also found some fun little side switch tech. Midscreen, you can do the following:
f12~df3 mb, crossover late j.4~db1 (clone freeze), b2, walk forward, f12~bf3
Does 32% for one bar and no assist and switches sides with the opponent.

I'm really kicking myself for not thinking about doing an NJP after the exDF4, good shit

What do we have kameo-less midscreen without side switch? Best I've got is F12~exDF4, b2, air22~divekick, s4~slide for 323. I dunno what it would be now that I know we can get a jump 2 before going into b2, but it has good corner carry

 

[Sage-Of-Light]

yo here are some combos and wall carrys with sub zero enjoy I just need practice mode lol

 

[Cobainevermind87]

yo here are some combos and wall carrys with sub zero enjoy I just need practice mode lol

Oi mate, the music is a little too loud and makes my ears want to throw up. Props on the IA divekicks, but I feel like for the most part your shit was pretty resource intensive and not really practical in matches against high level players.

I am an oldass, so I'll see myself out and wait for others to contribute before saying anything more

 

[Sage-Of-Light]

Oi mate, the music is a little too loud and makes my ears want to throw up. Props on the IA divekicks, but I feel like for the most part your shit was pretty resource intensive and not really practical in matches against high level players.

I am an oldass, so I'll see myself out and wait for others to contribute before saying anything more

thank you and the volume I will work on that for future reference safe

 

[Juggs]

I'm really kicking myself for not thinking about doing an NJP after the exDF4, good shit

What do we have kameo-less midscreen without side switch? Best I've got is F12~exDF4, b2, air22~divekick, s4~slide for 323. I dunno what it would be now that I know we can get a jump 2 before going into b2, but it has good corner carry

You can get 2 B2’s in this combo and do jump 11 xx divekick instead of jump 22. Idk if jump 22 would work after 2 B2’s but it may, not sure.

 

[Juggs]

I did a funny combo against someone in the beta. It used all 3 bars and does 47% or so. It’s really simple, just F12 xx EX DF4, F12 xx EX DF4, F12 xx EX DF4, F12 xx Frost Kameo Ground Freeze, B2, B2, Jump 11 xx Divekick. Definitely a waste of meter but in this particular instance it did enough dmg to kill my opponent. Which funnily enough, my opponent had 3 bars and Kameo available so he could’ve definitely broken the combo, but he either didn’t know how or didn’t think I was going to be able to do 47% with Sub, who knows. I have a clip of it if anyone is interested.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I did a funny combo against someone in the beta. It used all 3 bars and does 47% or so. It’s really simple, just F12 xx EX DF4, F12 xx EX DF4, F12 xx EX DF4, F12 xx Frost Kameo Ground Freeze, B2, B2, Jump 11 xx Divekick. Definitely a waste of meter but in this particular instance it did enough dmg to kill my opponent. Which funnily enough, my opponent had 3 bars and Kameo available so he could’ve definitely broken the combo, but he either didn’t know how or didn’t think I was going to be able to do 47% with Sub, who knows. I have a clip of it if anyone is interested.

I see no problem with combos like this if it kills especially. No point in being optimal if you’ll kill regardless.

 

[Juggs]

I see no problem with combos like this if it kills especially. No point in being optimal if you’ll kill regardless.

Oh, and I also just saw a video of I believe Tweedy doing this combo. And after the Frost Freeze he did a jump attack starter and also was able to end it better but can’t remember exactly how he ended it. But it was over 50% dmg.

 

[ticklebandit!]

He would end the combo with stand 3 into slide I believe. After the divekick.

 

[1man3letters]

Can anyone remember where it was shown sub zero kameo freeze assit?

Know they only showed the projectile armor on the smoke KK but cant remember where the above was shown

 

[Ardet]

Can anyone remember where it was shown sub zero kameo freeze assit?

Know they only showed the projectile armor on the smoke KK but cant remember where the above was shown

Umgadi trailet at the beginning when Li Mei is comboing Raiden

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I saw a sonic fox video where he was playing a Sub with Kenshi. The guy up-blocked Kenshi’s overhead telekinetic slash and full screen punished with slide. Fuck yeah