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General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

Three questions for all you subzero mains if anyone can answer them.
1) Im guessing cryomancer is subs most offensive variation correct?
2) the thread of 'why cryomancer isn't top 5' mentioned that all of his tick throws can be neutral ducked. Does this mean that any good player will rarely get caught by the tick throw?
3) I know when the patch first hit a lot of people thought cryo was top tier, what's the general opinion of him now?
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Three questions for all you subzero mains if anyone can answer them.
1) Im guessing cryomancer is subs most offensive variation correct?
2) the thread of 'why cryomancer isn't top 5' mentioned that all of his tick throws can be neutral ducked. Does this mean that any good player will rarely get caught by the tick throw?
3) I know when the patch first hit a lot of people thought cryo was top tier, what's the general opinion of him now?
1) You guessed it right. GM is the balanced type, and UB is the defensive type, so you know what Cryo is. It's so obvious that Cryo doesn't have anything defensive like the other variations have.

2 and 3) The reason is that the Polar Puncture is the same as the Throw. Pre-patch, everybody used to spam the F42T to combo out their opponents. Post-patch, it no longer works. The F42 is a stunning combo string, like the B12 is, so you can see where's the problem here. The Polar Puncture CAN'T be used on the stunned opponents. It can be used only to the juggled ones. What's worse, the inputs of the PP became hard to be doable. Any pro player would know the Throw off by heart, and this is why they drop their guard against Throw AND PP (See F0xy's match against Sonicfox).

Update: Only the Arctic Puncture (EX PP) works on the stunned opponents.
 
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Slightly worse, but gave the command grab as a special canceable for all the combo strings there. He would be very good, if the command grab had an easy input.
But isn't there like 2 strings he can actually cancel into command grab? The rest or most used whiff.
 

Revenant Zero

Death Comes
Premium Supporter
Three questions for all you subzero mains if anyone can answer them.
1) Im guessing cryomancer is subs most offensive variation correct?
2) the thread of 'why cryomancer isn't top 5' mentioned that all of his tick throws can be neutral ducked. Does this mean that any good player will rarely get caught by the tick throw?
3) I know when the patch first hit a lot of people thought cryo was top tier, what's the general opinion of him now?
1: Yeah; Cryomancer was always the more offensive variation out of Unbreakable and Grandmaster.

2: The command grab is a high, and thus most of the ticks are neutral duckable. However, this is where conditioning comes to play. I'm not a high level Sub player but when you condition an opponent they will have to guess which to do (unless they are super good at fuzzy guarding or can read you). So instead of say B33 into the command grab; you'll do B33 into the hammer for a splat in the corner. Then run up for the B2 B2 command grab combos. It's a hard variation to master and the only one I've seen that plays it well is SF.

3: Cryomancer is a threat if you know how to condition and know which strings to do with optimal damage or give option selects. IMO GM still is the best variation overall. But it's still not fair to compare Cryo because not many players use this variation in tournament or play at a high level like SF
 
Only the juggled ones work for Polar Puncture, and only the grounded stunned opponents work for Arctic Puncture. It would be nice if the grounded stunned ones work for Polar Puncture like it used to pre-patch.
Cryomancer Sub Can juggle from 2+4 + polar puncture on females anywhere on screen
Also juggles males and females in the corner with 1+2+3 and 2+4. Just to widen the theme.
Also if you did not njp the oponent; and if you end your combo with polar puncture ex Iceball, You can combo njp back1+2 polar puncture. The gravity doesn't matter.
Example, my corner combo:
jip--b2--b2--f1+2+2--1+1+1+polar puncture+ ex ice ball + njp +b1+2+polar puncture+ ice hammer = 44% one bar in the corner.
 
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Cryomancer Sub Can juggle from 2+4 + polar puncture on females anywhere on screen
Also juggles males and females in the corner with 1+2+3 and 2+4. Just to widen the theme.
Also if you did not njp the oponent; and if you end your combo with polar puncture ex Iceball, You can combo njp back1+2 polar puncture. The gravity doesn't matter.
Example, my corner combo:
jip--b2--b2--f1+2+2--1+1+1+polar puncture+ ex ice ball + njp +b1+2+polar puncture+ ice hammer = 44% one bar in the corner.
Damn dude how consistently can you pull this combo off? How long did you have to lab it?
 

ToX

Noob
What's your favorite strings to use with GM?
Also your favorite practical punishing combos?

I just picked up GM a few days ago and he's easy to get wins with but I want to make sure I'm maximizing his potential. Thanks
 

Matix218

Get over here!
What's your favorite strings to use with GM?
Also your favorite practical punishing combos?

I just picked up GM a few days ago and he's easy to get wins with but I want to make sure I'm maximizing his potential. Thanks
I think there is a combo thread in the sub zero forum that discusses all optimal midscreen and corner bnbs.

As for best strings, he has several great strings:

F42, b12, 123, b33, f33, etc.

Just go in the sub zero forum and browse, all this has been covered many times.
 
Reactions: ToX

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
B12 is your main punisher, 11 for fast punishes.
B12 or 11 xx iceball, whiff klone, JIP 242, run, then F12 for the re klone(always the best course unless you can kill) or 123 slide for more damage.
 

Revenant Zero

Death Comes
Premium Supporter
What's your favorite strings to use with GM?
Also your favorite practical punishing combos?

I just picked up GM a few days ago and he's easy to get wins with but I want to make sure I'm maximizing his potential. Thanks
114 in the corner then EX Ice clone is my favorite troll string. It's completely useless in real actual fighting but friends that play me who get trapped in it can't believe that stuff can be done :B

my favorite actual string is: b2 b2 d1 b3 into ice clone njp f12 :B
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
What's your favorite strings to use with GM?
Also your favorite practical punishing combos?

I just picked up GM a few days ago and he's easy to get wins with but I want to make sure I'm maximizing his potential. Thanks
Favorite strings
Center: B12, 123, F33 cancelling with Ice Klone.
Corner: B12, B2, F33, THROW, 12, B33.

Practical punishing combos
Center: B12xxIceball, JIP, 242, RUN, 1, 123xxSlide (31%), B12xxIceball, JIP, 242, RUN, 1, 112 (30%), B12xxIceball, JIP, 242, RUN, 1, F12 (30%), B12xxFrost Bomb, RUN, B12xxIceball, NJP, B12xxSlide (35%), Replace the B12 starter with 11xxIceball/Frost Bomb or B33xxEX Iceball/Frost Bomb or 12xxIceball/Frost Bomb. I often use 123xxIce Klone, and if It works by chance at the corner, I do any punishing combo.

I use only the F42xxIce Klone against weaponry variations.

The corner combos, you already know. All the meterless. The more practice you get with them, the more you make them doable.
 

T-bag

Noob
So I'm kinda new here and to fighting games in general. I've read a lot of the sub zero topics here and I have something I feel may or may not be decent. I've been experimenting with corner combos where instead of ending in a hard knockdown to clone set up you end with a metered grab, that seems to leave the opening stunned enough to reloop the string. I've only done this in practice mode so I'm not sure how viable this is. Maybe someone else can experiment with this as well to see if this will be a viable option.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
So I'm kinda new here and to fighting games in general. I've read a lot of the sub zero topics here and I have something I feel may or may not be decent. I've been experimenting with corner combos where instead of ending in a hard knockdown to clone set up you end with a metered grab, that seems to leave the opening stunned enough to reloop the string. I've only done this in practice mode so I'm not sure how viable this is. Maybe someone else can experiment with this as well to see if this will be a viable option.
Only use it if you're close to death, the opponent has a bar and a wake up attack you can't easily evade. Otherwise it's a waste of meter. There are very few situations where it's advantageous.
 

T-bag

Noob
Only use it if you're close to death, the opponent has a bar and a wake up attack you can't easily evade. Otherwise it's a waste of meter. There are very few situations where it's advantageous.
Yah for sure. I just used this in some online games and only about 30% of the time did it work. Back to the lab
 

Jontho

Noob
Hey everyone!
A complete noob here to MK, have played other fighters competitively though.

I was wondering if GM is still the way to go for Sub, or are the other worthwhile to pickup for some matchups?
Also, why is GM considered to be the best? One would think GM and Cryo would be somewhat even due to Cryo also having strong tools...
 

Revenant Zero

Death Comes
Premium Supporter
Hey everyone!
A complete noob here to MK, have played other fighters competitively though.

I was wondering if GM is still the way to go for Sub, or are the other worthwhile to pickup for some matchups?
Also, why is GM considered to be the best? One would think GM and Cryo would be somewhat even due to Cryo also having strong tools...
Grandmaster most certainly is still the way to go, he has more favorable/even match ups than Unbreakable and Cryomancer imo and corner combo damage potential is high.

While Cryomancer is more mix-up intensive and punish heavy, Cryomancer requires good reads and baits. An experienced player who knows what a player might/might not due can really utilize Cryomancer's command grabs and deal heavy blows (not as heavy pre-patch but still the mix potential is there).

Grandmaster can be defensive and offensive depending on how you want to approach things. Grandmaster also has a high comeback potential once he has the corner and your opponent has no bar.

A good variation to have with Grandmaster would be Unbreakable.