General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

[Tanno]

Hey everyone!
A complete noob here to MK, have played other fighters competitively though.

I was wondering if GM is still the way to go for Sub, or are the other worthwhile to pickup for some matchups?
Also, why is GM considered to be the best? One would think GM and Cryo would be somewhat even due to Cryo also having strong tools...

As I'm a Sub Zero main, I'll tell you some stuff here.

Grandmaster is the most hated variation, because he keeps creating the Ice Klone, so nobody can reach in him. Grandmaster is the balanced type, whilst Cryomancer and Unbreakable are the offensive and the defensive type, respectively.

Grandmaster can hold everybody in check with his Ice Klone, so that he can patiently wait for the right moment to rush in to punish them, or just zone on them. His strongest game is the corner, for he's weak in the center. Why? He can do even 50% meterless. Even Tom Brady and Madzin use him.

Cryomancer used to be strong, but due of this patch NRS fucked his special grab, called Polar Puncture, which used to be one with the F42T (note that T means Throw (L1) or 1+3, which the first is the short input for 1+3). At a sense, his PP can special cancel almost every combo string at the right moment, but he CAN'T grab the stunned opponents with the Polar Puncture and PP's inputs are hard as fuck. To grab the stunned opponents, he needs the Arctic Puncture (EX PP). The PP can connect only if your opponent is juggled. Maybe it's a lot of plus for Cryo, but a grave minus for not connecting itself with the stunned opponents and his hard inputs, because the game system thinks that it's a normal Throw. Note that he doesn't have any defensive skills to protect himself from his opponents like GM and UB do.

Unbreakable hasn't much to offer. He has the Ice Aura and the Ice Parry. Those two are crucial to his gameplay, because Aura is like a living Ice Klone protecting Sub Zero from chip attacks, while the Parry is to freeze any opponent's GROUND attacks (NOT the jumping ones). Parry is, also, served as the AWP (Anti-Wakeup Parry), meaning to prevent his opponent from even doing a wakeup attack to get out of the corner in his corner mind game.

If they fixed, made the Polar Puncture easy, and was able to grab even the stunned opponents, Cryo would be the second to go for offensive gameplay after Grandmaster.

The choice is yours to make.

Have fun.

 

[Jontho]

Wow, thanks a ton for the helpful response mate! <3

 

[ILuvFightGames]

As I'm a Sub Zero main, I'll tell you some stuff here.

Grandmaster is the most hated variation, because he keeps creating the Ice Klone, so nobody can reach in him. Grandmaster is the balanced type, whilst Cryomancer and Unbreakable are the offensive and the defensive type, respectively.

Grandmaster can hold everybody in check with his Ice Klone, so that he can patiently wait for the right moment to rush in to punish them, or just zone on them. His strongest game is the corner, for he's weak in the center. Why? He can do even 50% meterless. Even Tom Brady and Madzin use him.

Cryomancer used to be strong, but due of this patch NRS fucked his special grab, called Polar Puncture, which used to be one with the F42T (note that T means Throw (L1) or 1+3, which the first is the short input for 1+3). At a sense, his PP can special cancel almost every combo string at the right moment, but he CAN'T grab the stunned opponents with the Polar Puncture and PP's inputs are hard as fuck. To grab the stunned opponents, he needs the Arctic Puncture (EX PP). The PP can connect only if your opponent is juggled. Maybe it's a lot of plus for Cryo, but a grave minus for not connecting itself with the stunned opponents and his hard inputs, because the game system thinks that it's a normal Throw. Note that he doesn't have any defensive skills to protect himself from his opponents like GM and UB do.

Unbreakable hasn't much to offer. He has the Ice Aura and the Ice Parry. Those two are crucial to his gameplay, because Aura is like a living Ice Klone protecting Sub Zero from chip attacks, while the Parry is to freeze any opponent's GROUND attacks (NOT the jumping ones). Parry is, also, served as the AWP (Anti-Wakeup Parry), meaning to prevent his opponent from even doing a wakeup attack to get out of the corner in his corner mind game.

If they fixed, made the Polar Puncture easy, and was able to grab even the stunned opponents, Cryo would be the second to go for offensive gameplay after Grandmaster.

The choice is yours to make.

Have fun.

I liked cryo WAY better before the last patch. His combo's were hype and his f24T.

 

[neveradestroyer]

The losing of armor (and gaining a worse armor with a harder input and worse hitbox, that needs two bars for less damage now), Making worse his variation strings (f1+2 make minus and f1+2+2 punishable). and normal string (f4+2+ ex ice hammer can't combo anymore). More negative and even punishable. And the nail in the coffing (The hammer and ex hammer damage nerf). They killed Cryomancer. A loyalist can adapt to the losing of armor, and the worsening of his strings, but the reward he gets is very bad now.

 

[Revenant Zero]

The losing of armor (and gaining a worse armor with a harder input and worse hitbox, that needs two bars for less damage now), Making worse his variation strings (f1+2 make minus and f1+2+2 punishable). and normal string (f4+2+ ex ice hammer can't combo anymore). More negative and even punishable. And the nail in the coffing (The hammer and ex hammer damage nerf). They killed Cryomancer. A loyalist can adapt to the losing of armor, and the worsening of his strings, but the reward he gets is very bad now.

he basically got the Piercing Mileena treatment.

 

[Youphemism]

Fun fact: if you do two ice balls in one combo with Sub Zero the second ice ball scales less than the first one for some reason.

 

[Poser Paul]

Fun fact: if you do two ice balls in one combo with Sub Zero the second ice ball scales less than the first one for some reason.

What do you mean

 

[Youphemism]

What do you mean

Well the combo I was doing (I don't remember why, for swag probably lol) was in the corner with Cryomancer:
Starter~DB2ex, DF2, lateish NJP, DF2, 123~slide

And what I found is that the second DF2 scaled its followup less than the first DF2 scaled its followup. That make sense?

 

[Poser Paul]

Well the combo I was doing (I don't remember why, for swag probably lol) was in the corner with Cryomancer:
Starter~DB2ex, DF2, lateish NJP, DF2, 123~slide

And what I found is that the second DF2 scaled its followup less than the first DF2 scaled its followup. That make sense?

Wait, you combod off of it??

 

[Youphemism]

Wait, you combod off of it??

Yup, it's possible in the corner if you time the second ice ball right.

 

[ShadyHeart]

Grandmaster happens to be irritating against all of my characters so I'd like to know which chars shit on him the most.

 

[neveradestroyer]

Grandmaster happens to be irritating against all of my characters so I'd like to know which chars shit on him the most.

D'vorah, Takeda, Ermac,Tremor, Jaquie briggs full auto, hish qu ten Predator, Kung Lao Buzzaw,Kenshi,Kitana,Tanya,Ferra-Thor,Displacer Raiden. With that many non winning matchups, It's a miracle that no one of your mains is not one of those. In other words GIT GUD.

 

[ShadyHeart]

D'vorah, Takeda, Ermac,Tremor, Jaquie briggs full auto, hish qu ten Predator, Kung Lao Buzzaw,Kenshi,Kitana,Tanya,Ferra-Thor,Displacer Raiden. With that many non winning matchups, It's a miracle that no one of your mains is not one of those. In other words GIT GUD.

My mains are CO Sonya, Kitana, and Piercing Mileena. I usually use Mournful Kitana or Mileena against him (and win) but I'd rather not have to play the game of throwing projectiles while watching for ice balls, clone throws, and slides because that's not any fun. I'd rather just shit on him so he picks a different character and I can have a fun fight. Whip or teleport Takeda sounds like he'd be pretty good now that you mention it. I can kind of play venomous D'vorah but she seems too "meh" of a character to be a really good counter. SQ cancels are too hard.

 

[SaSSolino]

I'll just leave this here...

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

I'll just leave this here...

More like put up clone

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I'll just leave this here...

Uhh no. Klone ftw

 

[Dankster Morgan]

My mains are CO Sonya, Kitana, and Piercing Mileena. I usually use Mournful Kitana or Mileena against him (and win) but I'd rather not have to play the game of throwing projectiles while watching for ice balls, clone throws, and slides because that's not any fun. I'd rather just shit on him so he picks a different character and I can have a fun fight. Whip or teleport Takeda sounds like he'd be pretty good now that you mention it. I can kind of play venomous D'vorah but she seems too "meh" of a character to be a really good counter. SQ cancels are too hard.

Lasher is Grandmaster's worst matchup after the patch imo.

 

[SaSSolino]

More like put up clone

Uhh no. Klone ftw

I actully thought of this with a friend while playing with my new Cryo, not every SZ is Grandmaster, even though that could be a joke as well.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I actully thought of this with a friend while playing with my new Cryo, not every SZ is Grandmaster, even though that could be a joke as well.

I guess to some extent, but it's full combo punishable on block so use it wisely. Great whiff recovery though, makes it easy to get in.

 

[SaSSolino]

I guess to some extent, but it's full combo punishable on block so use it wisely. Great whiff recovery though, makes it easy to get in.

Yeah, I know. It was a joke, don't look too much into it.

 

[Kooron Nation]

Just finished a long set playing a good UB Sub, and man am I salty.
B2 is one of the cheapest and most bullshit 50/50's in the game, safe as fk, plenty of range and pushback, unreactable, leads to massive damage.
He can check you with D4 at max range then straight into B2.
His low is no joke either so you have to hold that shit and respect his 50/50 option, then after guessing right or getting out he can interrupt whatever you're doing with an armoured launcher that has TWO hits of armour? I'm fine with the armoured launcher but why two hits of armour?

#triggered

 

[SaSSolino]

@Dankster Morgan Now that I think about it, was it you that said that Cryo is mid tier? Because now that I play him, I can safely say that you were "oh so wrong".

Joking aside, I can see some of the weaknesses you talked about, still feel like a god while playing him. So. Many. Options.

Just finished a long set playing a good UB Sub, and man am I salty.
B2 is one of the cheapest and most bullshit 50/50's in the game, safe as fk, plenty of range and pushback, unreactable, leads to massive damage.
He can check you with D4 at max range then straight into B2.
His low is no joke either so you have to hold that shit and respect his 50/50 option, then after guessing right or getting out he can interrupt whatever you're doing with an armoured launcher that has TWO hits of armour? I'm fine with the armoured launcher but why two hits of armour?

#triggered

don't forget the crazy hitbox which hits jumpers fullscreen

 

[Kooron Nation]

don't forget the crazy hitbox which hits jumpers fullscreen

I'd NJP thinking he was going to jump in but he'd do a B2 and hit me somehow and then leads to full combo > hard knockdown > flip a coin > guessed right but too bad can't punish so hold another coin flip > quitality

 

[Poser Paul]

I'd NJP thinking he was going to jump in but he'd do a B2 and hit me somehow and then leads to full combo > hard knockdown > flip a coin > guessed right but too bad can't punish so hold another coin flip > quitality

Play shinnok or possessed

 

[Dankster Morgan]

@Dankster Morgan Now that I think about it, was it you that said that Cryo is mid tier? Because now that I play him, I can safely say that you were "oh so wrong".

Joking aside, I can see some of the weaknesses you talked about, still feel like a god while playing him. So. Many. Options.



don't forget the crazy hitbox which hits jumpers fullscreen

Yeah I do think Cryo is mid tier, Unbreakable is high mid, and Grandmaster is low high. Lol I obviously don't think Cryo is shit he's a good variation, I just think people jumped the gun is all. Glad you're enjoying him welcome to the Lin Kuei.