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God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
FL Rushdown said:
Grass is always greener.
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wouldn't go that far. She gets real follow ups after meterless commmand throws, gets real damage off them, and her CC is actually a legit button. The belly flop is a sick air normal as well. And roll/slide + Vtrigger is dope. Her Vtrigger in general is I think awesome and I know I was not using it to its potential. Oh and she doesn't have to switch stances at the start of the round.

I think shes an excellent character and I haven't written her off. I'm not comfortable trying to learn her again until I get a stick back tho, I think Vega might just be more my style as well, or maybe it's just my knowledge of his tricks that put him ahead for me
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
So I just heard both Valle and Justin Wong say sfv is more aggressive than they expected for a sf game. Justin says he either defends better or starts being more aggressive. Daigo is known as a calculating defensive player but he too has tried to be more aggressive in this game before. I have a habit of backing off whenever I knock an opponent down which is not the best thing to do right? I mean as a shoto player. Should I be pressuring more after knockdown?
 
ShotgunInsanity

ShotgunInsanity

Noob
I wanna play guile because he by far fits my playstyle the most but I've never played a charge character in my life and it's feels so alien to me.



feels bad man
 
FL Rushdown

FL Rushdown

Noob
ILuvFightGames said:
So I just heard both Valle and Justin Wong say sfv is more aggressive than they expected for a sf game. Justin says he either defends better or starts being more aggressive. Daigo is known as a calculating defensive player but he too has tried to be more aggressive in this game before. I have a habit of backing off whenever I knock an opponent down which is not the best thing to do right? I mean as a shoto player. Should I be pressuring more after knockdown?
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That's definitely not a new understanding of the game. People started realizing how important raw aggression was right around the time people started winning with ken even though on paper he was a mediocre character at best with a bunch of gimmicks.
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
FL Rushdown said:
That's definitely not a new understanding of the game. People started realizing how important raw aggression was right around the time people started winning with ken even though on paper he was a mediocre character at best with a bunch of gimmicks.
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Yea it's been known. I guess what both Valle and Justin Wong meant is that he's not gonna be as strong as he was without him (Wong) changing his play style.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
ILuvFightGames said:
What about the cc system?
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I think the idea itself is fine. The implementation sucks and adds to the imbalance. With the frame delay, short normals, and the disproportionate rewards for a successful crush counter make me not like it. I'm ok with some characters being able to use it better than some others, but when characters have great footsie or plus buttons also grant CC combos that are easy to confirm or easy to pressure with and some characters can barely link off CC buttons with barely any viable frame traps it doesn't make sense to me. That and shit like v-trigger cancels turning dumb unsafe buttons into plus on block combo starters. Change those two things and I think the overall game would become much better.
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
buyacushun said:
I think the idea itself is fine. The implementation sucks and adds to the imbalance. With the frame delay, short normals, and the disproportionate rewards for a successful crush counter make me not like it. I'm ok with some characters being able to use it better than some others, but when characters have great footsie or plus buttons also grant CC combos that are easy to confirm or easy to pressure with and some characters can barely link off CC buttons with barely any viable frame traps it doesn't make sense to me. That and shit like v-trigger cancels turning dumb unsafe buttons into plus on block combo starters. Change those two things and I think the overall game would become much better.
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I like the mechanics, that's what vtrigger is for, it's the "ok I'm on beast mode now" thing, but i do agree about the cc's maybe making them all even if I'm understanding you correctly. You're right there's no reason for characters with great buttons to have better cc's, I agree.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
ILuvFightGames said:
I like the mechanics, that's what vtrigger is for, it's the "ok I'm on beast mode now" thing, but i do agree about the cc's maybe making them all even if I'm understanding you correctly. You're right there's no reason for characters with great buttons to have better cc's, I agree.
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I'm not talking about v-trigger by itself. I'm talking about sweep or target combo into v-trigger. Trigger is being used to transform usually unsafe things into advantageous pressure situations with no real answer back. Sweep into v trigger could be made -4 and I'd be ok. But right now it grants a mixup and I don't like that. It's shit like that we have things like that Chris G video about the chun-li flowchart.
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
buyacushun said:
I'm not talking about v-trigger by itself. I'm talking about sweep or target combo into v-trigger. Trigger is being used to transform usually unsafe things into advantageous pressure situations with no real answer back. Sweep into v trigger could be made -4 and I'd be ok. But right now it grants a mixup and I don't like that. It's shit like that we have things like that Chris G video about the chun-li flowchart.
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Yea I understand what you're saying now, yea maybe make it safe but not plus on block.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
The whole idiot SF world bitched and moaned and whined about FADCing unsafe shit to make it safe and how that was the just the worst damn thing and made sfiv so terrible.. but I don't hear them bitching about V-trigger doing the exact same fucking thing . You can't vtrigger a dp and make it safe like you could in IV but at least in iv if you fadc'd something on block you lost offense (two bars).. and by and large pressure wasn't nearly as strong in IV, so an fadc on block didn't ALWAYS lead to more pressure and throw mixup/whatever shenanigans. Oh and let's not forget that for many characters they get to cover something stupid with vtrigger, maintain pressure after they cover it, and become stronger versions of themselves with more options, all for doing something unsafe. Love it.

I was watching TastySteve commentate some match a while ago and he was rambling about how much better v was than iv because you couldn't just throw out what ever you want and have it made safe by fadc - while literally at the same time Balrog, who's the entire round and is down by about 80% vs essentially full health Cammy (cammy is obviously amazing this isn't mean to say otherwise just giving the example as I saw it) and the Rog just throws it the low TC. Cammy is waiting for it but WTF does it matter, vtrigger cancel to make it safe, Rog keeps up the pressure and cracks her defense with a throw and she guesses wrong on Oki into literally 500 damage and that was that. All this while that smiling buffoon rambles about how fadc made IVs neutral this terrible mess of apparently all of us just doing whatever the fuck we wanted whenever we wanted with absolutely o drawbacks. Cause that's exactly how I remember playing IV.
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
EntropicByDesign said:
The whole idiot SF world bitched and moaned and whined about FADCing unsafe shit to make it safe and how that was the just the worst damn thing and made sfiv so terrible.. but I don't hear them bitching about V-trigger doing the exact same fucking thing . You can't vtrigger a dp and make it safe like you could in IV but at least in iv if you fadc'd something on block you lost offense (two bars).. and by and large pressure wasn't nearly as strong in IV, so an fadc on block didn't ALWAYS lead to more pressure and throw mixup/whatever shenanigans. Oh and let's not forget that for many characters they get to cover something stupid with vtrigger, maintain pressure after they cover it, and become stronger versions of themselves with more options, all for doing something unsafe. Love it.

I was watching TastySteve commentate some match a while ago and he was rambling about how much better v was than iv because you couldn't just throw out what ever you want and have it made safe by fadc - while literally at the same time Balrog, who's the entire round and is down by about 80% vs essentially full health Cammy (cammy is obviously amazing this isn't mean to say otherwise just giving the example as I saw it) and the Rog just throws it the low TC. Cammy is waiting for it but WTF does it matter, vtrigger cancel to make it safe, Rog keeps up the pressure and cracks her defense with a throw and she guesses wrong on Oki into literally 500 damage and that was that. All this while that smiling buffoon rambles about how fadc made IVs neutral this terrible mess of apparently all of us just doing whatever the fuck we wanted whenever we wanted with absolutely o drawbacks. Cause that's exactly how I remember playing IV.
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Lol. That's not entirely vtriggers fault. Every character has the same make a move safe on vtrigger cancel so in that regards it's fair. Unless I'm wrong then please let me know which character isn't safe on vtrigger cancel. But I get what you're saying, I think the issue is the damage differential that one character has after vtrigger than other characters. And I completely agree with you on that aspect, those characters need adjusting either their options or their vtrigger capabilities.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
ILuvFightGames said:
Lol. That's not entirely vtriggers fault. Every character has the same make a move safe on vtrigger cancel so in that regards it's fair. Unless I'm wrong then please let me know which character isn't safe on vtrigger cancel. But I get what you're saying, I think the issue is the damage differential that one character has after vtrigger than other characters. And I completely agree with you on that aspect, those characters need adjusting either their options or their vtrigger capabilities.
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I'm not really complaining about Balrog or even Vtrigger exactly, just pointing out the weird double standard where FADC making moves safe that shouldnt/wouldn't normally be was seen as some cancer that sfv saved us from, when sfv has more or less the same system, one that's more powerful in some ways.

Balrog shouldn't be able to make TC safe though, while we're on the subject. I just can't see why a low hitting TC that leads to 400+ damage into Oki and mixups and general insanity is a thing that exists. Rog isn't the only offender of course, but he comes to mind first when I think vtrigger abuse.. I mean, it would be fine if that was his 'thing' but he also has really good everything else, except a crossup. Great neutral and mix game. Good throw game. Great spacing and pace control. Amazing air control between his AAs, a2as and jump in normals, he even has a nice crisp jump. Bonkers damage. 3f normal.
TAP. Amazing projectile answer in vskill. Armor on screw upper. Double light confirms.

Jesus.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
EntropicByDesign said:
I'm not really complaining about Balrog or even Vtrigger exactly, just pointing out the weird double standard where FADC making moves safe that shouldnt/wouldn't normally be was seen as some cancer that sfv saved us from, when sfv has more or less the same system, one that's more powerful in some ways.

Balrog shouldn't be able to make TC safe though, while we're on the subject. I just can't see why a low hitting TC that leads to 400+ damage into Oki and mixups and general insanity is a thing that exists. Rog isn't the only offender of course, but he comes to mind first when I think vtrigger abuse.. I mean, it would be fine if that was his 'thing' but he also has really good everything else, except a crossup. Great neutral and mix game. Good throw game. Great spacing and pace control. Amazing air control between his AAs, a2as and jump in normals, he even has a nice crisp jump. Bonkers damage. 3f normal.
TAP. Amazing projectile answer in vskill. Armor on screw upper. Double light confirms.

Jesus.
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Don't forget one of the best CC buttons in st.HK. +3 on block, great range, and easy confirms.
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
EntropicByDesign said:
I'm not really complaining about Balrog or even Vtrigger exactly, just pointing out the weird double standard where FADC making moves safe that shouldnt/wouldn't normally be was seen as some cancer that sfv saved us from, when sfv has more or less the same system, one that's more powerful in some ways.

Balrog shouldn't be able to make TC safe though, while we're on the subject. I just can't see why a low hitting TC that leads to 400+ damage into Oki and mixups and general insanity is a thing that exists. Rog isn't the only offender of course, but he comes to mind first when I think vtrigger abuse.. I mean, it would be fine if that was his 'thing' but he also has really good everything else, except a crossup. Great neutral and mix game. Good throw game. Great spacing and pace control. Amazing air control between his AAs, a2as and jump in normals, he even has a nice crisp jump. Bonkers damage. 3f normal.
TAP. Amazing projectile answer in vskill. Armor on screw upper. Double light confirms.

Jesus.
Click to expand...
Yea agreed. He's scary as hell.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
buyacushun said:
Don't forget one of the best CC buttons in st.HK. +3 on block, great range, and easy confirms.
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yeah, I cant believe I forgot his standing Rh. That move is in the same category as Urien's st.hp. Its just plain batshit. +3, CC's into good damage, easy confirms like you said, can meaty with it, more range than it appears. I mean, a tool I'm totally fine with, if the character didnt have other damn thing as well.

I just dont understand Capcom's thinking.. Let's take Karin as an example.. Balrog is just as explosive, just as oppressive, has IMO a better mixup game, maybe his buttons arent universally as good as Karin's are, but they arent far behind and Rog has a super simple, any time AA, where-as Karin def does not without spending a bar.. Karin is more mobile than Rog, thats really it. Rog outputs more damage and stun, has comparably good buttons and an AA, both are pressure and oki monsters (almost everyone in this damn game except the bad characters are pressure and oki monsters, lets be honest here).. Yet Karin has 900 health and Rog has (atm) 1025. Karin has shit stun, Rog has good stun. So apparently, Karin deserves to be a glass cannon because she walks a little faster and her dashes seem to be better (I say seem because Rog's shorter forward dash is faster than it looks and he gets a ton of mileage out of it).. Well, I she does have a crossup too, but Im pretty sure everyone does except Rog right?

I just dont get the thinking process there.
 
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