Starfire Matchup Discussion

[Tweedy]

But his Apophis Blast is already a mid, even if she stays closer she isn't supposed to duck it. Isn't it a true mid?

Not to mention that she still has various tools compete with Fate. I think it's 5-5, or 4-6 at worst which means she can still compete with Fate but needs to be more careful, if anything.

Because of how low she crouches, she can low profile df1 from pretty far out. It's really huge in the match up imo.

 

[GLoRToR]

Starfire loses to anyone who restricts her movement so that's anyone that can full combo punish any of her zoning by teleporting behind her or rushing her down. Since her d1 leads to no major damage right now, her turn is over before she could start anything and anyone who outdamages her basically has her for free.
She also loses to anyone who has faster projectiles.

Darkseid, Supergirl, Hellboy and Atom beat her 7-3 imo.

Then there are the other two bad matchups who can launch her for 90% of her hp fullscreen:
Black Adam and Atrocitus both shit on her but I guess she can at least fight back so those could be a 6-4.

Scarecrow I'm not sure about. I pummel him and I lose.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Scarecrow can get nasty if he gets close, becomes a slugfest that's not in star's favor. He also has that ducking advancing mid which is kinda hard to deal with outside of backdashing away or MB b3. Overall I think it's pretty even though.

Darkseid can be tough coz of the damage difference, you can punish his lasers if you're around halfscreen away with trait but it's strict. Trading with the lasers is also a no-go coz he does more damage and gets a knockdown so fullscreen zoning isn't ideal.
It's slightly in favor but nothing drastic.

Fate will win if you play it from fullscreen away, in a total zoning war he has the advantage coz all he to do is just fireball nonstop and star can't retaliate without trading or getting stuffed especially if he has trait on.
you have to be a bit closer to win, midscreen-ish where his fireball whiffs is the sweet spot. On wakeup f3 is very good against him coz it checks glyph free so you get the momentum if you're close.

I don't see how hellboy is 7-3 tbh but I haven't played against him enough to judge the MU.
If it's the leap then you need to do more close stardusts or ume b2s, and if he cancels it it's generally a free db3.
for his armor trait i generally use up full trait or throw out stardusts in his way to slow him down, you can also just bf2 all over the place and make him chase you till it runs out.

Supergirl is still her worst MU imo, you can't play footsies against her coz it's too risky and star gets minimal damage where supergirl can get a full combo if anything hits.
her fullscreen options also shut down starfire be it air lasers, ground lasers or teleports. She also has the initiative on wakeup as star's wakeups blow against anything from the air which supergirl can do easily with airdash mixups or simply f3 shenanigans.

 

[GLoRToR]

I stand corrected. Atrocitus can literally launch her for free 50% damage any time he wants unless you want to sit there blocking low the whole match.

 

[GLoRToR]

She's a shit character. Dropped until I see buffs.

 

[Tweedy]

She's definitely not shit please don't listen to glortor. Atro doesn't get 50% off of a fullscreen mb puddle.

Hellboy is probably fine you just gotta db3 a lot. Atom is also probably fine, he can't just react to zoning and teleport like he can vs other characters. Check his teleport with d1 special.

I agree Darkseid players downplay Darkseid in the mu but how is this bad for Starfire? You can just b2 to check teleport. It's 13 frames so you have to do it a little preemptively, but his teleport doesn't make it 7-3 or even winning.

Black Adam is definitely even. I've played it vs the best Adam players. He can only get a clean launch off of black magic if he ducks a meterless trait, so just don't meterless trait. Df1 and dust trades will result in him wasting his bar on black magic. If you neutral jump lightning you can punish it with trait because it has so much recovery, don't use s1 to punish divekick because it whiffs a lot of the time like vs Catwoman's max distance catdash.

 

[Tweedy]

Fate probably beats Starfire, she has to stay in the range where his finger blasts are still high to compete in the zoning war.

I disagree with this as well. I used to think Starfire got mopped but now I think Starfire might win tbh. You just gotta stay in that range where you duck df1 and once you get a life lead it's ggs. Arrow is the only zoner that beats her probably.

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

I disagree with this as well. I used to think Starfire got mopped but now I think Starfire might win tbh. You just gotta stay in that range where you duck df1 and once you get a life lead it's ggs. Arrow is the only zoner that beats her probably.

I thought Starfire would have a winning MU against GA. Like once GA loses the life lead I feel Starfire can out zone him. He doesn't build any meter off his arrows unless blocked so you can just sit comfortably full screen with a life lead and dodge all his arrows and punish any reload attempt with trait while also forcing him to come in.

 

[GLoRToR]

Atro doesn't get 50% off of a fullscreen mb puddle.

What do you recommend against Atro? I literally can't do shit against him. I move, I'm launched for a combo. I try to block, it's either mid mid overhead launch or mid mid launch. Can't guess right.

 

[Tweedy]

I thought Starfire would have a winning MU against GA. Like once GA loses the life lead I feel Starfire can out zone him. He doesn't build any meter off his arrows unless blocked so you can just sit comfortably full screen with a life lead and dodge all his arrows and punish any reload attempt with trait while also forcing him to come in.

Yeah when either loses the life lead it's really hard for the other to keep up. I just think it's easier for GA because of low fire arrow. They win the trade vs star dust or mb trait.

 

[jcbowie]

What do you recommend against Atro? I literally can't do shit against him. I move, I'm launched for a combo. I try to block, it's either mid mid overhead launch or mid mid launch. Can't guess right.

Contending with puddle in the neutral with her is the same as with any other matchup, it's fairly reactable and ridiculously punishable from any point of the screen with Starfire. Demonstrate that you are able to punish it a few times and you can then start to be more aggressive or risky in neutral because the Atro will be less likely to just throw puddle out, so start zoning or use her good mobility to move in for pressure. Just be patient.

Atro f2,2 mixups are fuzzyable. You just have to get used to doing it.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Yeah when either loses the life lead it's really hard for the other to keep up. I just think it's easier for GA because of low fire arrow. They win the trade vs star dust or mb trait.

GA and Fate are actually very similar MUs in the sense that winning is very manageable if you get a life lead, with strong emphasis on the if. Being honest, Dr Fate is one of the few MUs where I rarely opt to use Starfire - I'll generally pick Cheetah instead, because it forces him to play a very different game thanks to her bf3 crouching under both df1 and orb at every range.

As for the Hellboy MU, db3 definitely has its uses, but it's definitely also worth mixing in the odd mid-air df1 and J1, just in case they start baiting out db3 and punishing accordingly.

BTW, there's a point I'd like to make about Starfire's d1 'not leading to much damage'. While it's true that she can't BGB from it like nearly everyone else can (and personally I'd love to have that back!), assuming you're not next to a BGB she actually gets slightly better than average damage from a meterless d1 combo.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

She's definitely not shit please don't listen to glortor. Atro doesn't get 50% off of a fullscreen mb puddle.

Hellboy is probably fine you just gotta db3 a lot. Atom is also probably fine, he can't just react to zoning and teleport like he can vs other characters. Check his teleport with d1 special.

I agree Darkseid players downplay Darkseid in the mu but how is this bad for Starfire? You can just b2 to check teleport. It's 13 frames so you have to do it a little preemptively, but his teleport doesn't make it 7-3 or even winning.

Black Adam is definitely even. I've played it vs the best Adam players. He can only get a clean launch off of black magic if he ducks a meterless trait, so just don't meterless trait. Df1 and dust trades will result in him wasting his bar on black magic. If you neutral jump lightning you can punish it with trait because it has so much recovery, don't use s1 to punish divekick because it whiffs a lot of the time like vs Catwoman's max distance catdash.

ive played the starfire v darkseid mu now from starfire perspective and I def dont think its a losing mu for her. i disagree that you have to be a little preemptive against tele with b2 it feels like a clean, reaction punish to me the only time youre being preemptive is just not using some of the tools of zoning when you think they will tele and you havent locked them down with stardust. as long as you play safe and smart it should be a win for starfire. i think the mu is prolly 5/5 but only if darkseids realize that you can react tele the stardust. if they dont know this then i think star can take it pretty easily.

also yes i think she wins the fate mu but you really gotta learn it and you have to go in and not stay at fullscreen. she can duck his projectiles pretty far out and she challenges him well in the zoning war.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

What do you recommend against Atro? I literally can't do shit against him. I move, I'm launched for a combo. I try to block, it's either mid mid overhead launch or mid mid launch. Can't guess right.

f22 mix is fuzzyable but you have to block the string as a low first before the fuzzy otherwise it wont be fuzzyable. atleast for the characters that i play with.

 

[Tweedy]

ive played the starfire v darkseid mu now from starfire perspective and I def dont think its a losing mu for her. i disagree that you have to be a little preemptive against tele with b2 it feels like a clean, reaction punish to me the only time youre being preemptive is just not using some of the tools of zoning when you think they will tele and you havent locked them down with stardust. as long as you play safe and smart it should be a win for starfire. i think the mu is prolly 5/5 but only if darkseids realize that you can react tele the stardust. if they dont know this then i think star can take it pretty easily.

also yes i think she wins the fate mu but you really gotta learn it and you have to go in and not stay at fullscreen. she can duck his projectiles pretty far out and she challenges him well in the zoning war.

Nah you're definitely wrong like you gotta play Knicks in that mu. If they're slow enough to where you're doing on reaction they're just bad.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

With respect to Supergirl, while it's definitely a disadvantageous MU and probably Star's worst overall, there are a handful of things that stop it being completely unwinnable.

a) d1 into breath and b12 into breath can be consistently interrupted with d1. Takes some getting used to but there's a pattern to mashing it so it'll work every time, and will keep blocking if they opt for b123 instead.

b) Midair df1 stops her from being unable to use air lasers constantly without consequence.

c) While risky, if they're using d1 in really disrespectful situations, s3 will cause it to whiff and grant you a combo opportunity.

d) This isn't unique to starfire at all, but supergirl has a wakeup that starfire can easily exploit. Db1 can be punished by raw b3 on block, so she's losing a minimum of a third of her lifebar. After doing that once or twice they'll be scared to do it again and you can get all kinds of shenanigans going.

 

[ATP2014]

So then, what are the consensus bad MUs for Starfire? Supergirl seems universally accepted, who else?

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

So then, what are the consensus bad MUs for Starfire? Supergirl seems universally accepted, who else?

When talking high level play, any character with good neutral + a player that is good enough to actually understand neutral spells trouble for her. Many starfire players get a false sense of how good she is bc she is a scrub killer. Try to play against the best footsie players in the scene (hayatei, fox, semijj, get rekked, et cetera) and you will see very quick how much she lacks.

I have her as a mid tier character that is not main material.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

With respect to Supergirl, while it's definitely a disadvantageous MU and probably Star's worst overall, there are a handful of things that stop it being completely unwinnable.

a) d1 into breath and b12 into breath can be consistently interrupted with d1. Takes some getting used to but there's a pattern to mashing it so it'll work every time, and will keep blocking if they opt for b123 instead.

b) Midair df1 stops her from being unable to use air lasers constantly without consequence.

c) While risky, if they're using d1 in really disrespectful situations, s3 will cause it to whiff and grant you a combo opportunity.

d) This isn't unique to starfire at all, but supergirl has a wakeup that starfire can easily exploit. Db1 can be punished by raw b3 on block, so she's losing a minimum of a third of her lifebar. After doing that once or twice they'll be scared to do it again and you can get all kinds of shenanigans going.

supergirl is not her hardest MU. it is a 5-5

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I disagree with this as well. I used to think Starfire got mopped but now I think Starfire might win tbh. You just gotta stay in that range where you duck df1 and once you get a life lead it's ggs. Arrow is the only zoner that beats her probably.

the fate v starfire mu is 5-5 or slightly in sf favor imo

 

[ATP2014]

supergirl is not her hardest MU. it is a 5-5

I was always under the impression this was her worst MU. If not, who would you say is the hardest for Starfire?

 

[GLoRToR]

supergirl is not her hardest MU. it is a 5-5

Can you make a video showcasing how this matchup is not a 7-3 in Supergirl's favour please?
I'm pretty sure it's no better than that.

 

[GLoRToR]

So then, what are the consensus bad MUs for Starfire? Supergirl seems universally accepted, who else?

Darkseid, Atom. Anyone that can shut down your zoning or force you into a situation where you're unable to do the single thing Starfire is decent at.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I was always under the impression this was her worst MU. If not, who would you say is the hardest for Starfire?

Hellboy bc he could be the best character in the game.

Blue beetle. He can jump for free all day and you can AA, change jump arc, can’t punish charge. Also, he can spam projectile and starfire cannot get her turn back. Probably 1 of 2 characters in the game that true makes star fire come to them.

Atom is her hardest mu for me. No way to continue pressure. 23 staggers or any other staggers get shut down bc his d1 has grodd range. D3 low profiles a lot of shimmy/stagger attempts. You have no answer for stomp except yolo charges. It is extremely hard to make a come back on him. He has the best hit and run style in the game. Trait is a free in.

Cheetah.

Those are her hardest.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Darkseid, Atom. Anyone that can shut down your zoning or force you into a situation where you're unable to do the single thing Starfire is decent at.

Starfire is even or beats darkseid. You can punish high shot with beam. Shut down all midscreen mix from trait with a reactionary jump back hit behind 3.

One of a few matchups starfire actually wins neutral.