Starfire Matchup Discussion

[TarkatanDentist]

Cheetah is a 'hard' matchup in the sense that she can deal an utterly ridiculous amount of damage if she opens you up, and that can be stressful in the heat of a match. Then again, that's true regardless of who's facing her.

But Starfire can make herself hard to open up thanks to bf2. If Cheetah's using pounce to bait you (which they often do) bf2 forces their hand - they gotta act fast if they wanna avoid taking a chunk of damage. If you have at least one bar of meter, then you have a backup just in case they cancel quick enough to block it, as MB will make it safe.

Another plus in Star's favour is her primary weakness of subpar neutral doesn't get exploited too badly since Cheetahs own neutral is lacking too, compounded by the fact that d3 is more likely to whiff on Starfire (floating hitboxes FTW), and at many closer ranges you can d1 punish it (something not everyone in the cast can do).

Remove the psychological factor of 'OMG if I mess up I could lose half my life bar' and it becomes much more manageable

 

[Hawkeye1345]

What's funny is that Starfires say she loses to cheetah, but some in the cheetah community say Starfire is one of her worst matchups. You bring up great points, especially BF2

 

[Espio]

What's funny is that Starfires say she loses to cheetah, but some in the cheetah community say Starfire is one of her worst matchups. You bring up great points, especially BF2

What Cheetah players have said that Starfire is a problem for her in recent memory? Some might have said she does fine, but I don't recall anyone in the last two plus months stating that Cheetah loses especially not terribly so.

 

[GLoRToR]

Starfire is even or beats darkseid. You can punish high shot with beam. Shut down all midscreen mix from trait with a reactionary jump back hit behind 3.

One of a few matchups starfire actually wins neutral.

Could you please make some tutorial vids and matchup vids for her? I really want to believe you and I know Tweedy has been using her but there is so little material to go on.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

If Starfire does have an advantage over Cheetah it's only a small one. No way is she Cheetahs 'worst matchup' - I can already think of at least three where she struggles more than with Starfire (namely Supergirl, Superman and Batman)

Oh, and one of Starfires worst matchups that hasn't been mentioned much so far has got to be Catwoman. B3 alone ruins starfire in neutral (ignoring the plethora of superior mids Catwoman has even without that) and catwomans evasion and mobility mean that she'll often only take a small amount of chip damage getting in. Never has starfire's 6 frame d1 been as much of a lifesaver as it is here - without it you'd be dangerously close to 3-7 territory here lol.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

If Starfire does have an advantage over Cheetah it's only a small one. No way is she Cheetahs 'worst matchup' - I can already think of at least three where she struggles more than with Starfire (namely Supergirl, Superman and Batman)

Oh, and one of Starfires worst matchups that hasn't been mentioned much so far has got to be Catwoman. B3 alone ruins starfire in neutral (ignoring the plethora of superior mids Catwoman has even without that) and catwomans evasion and mobility mean that she'll often only take a small amount of chip damage getting in. Never has starfire's 6 frame d1 been as much of a lifesaver as it is here - without it you'd be dangerously close to 3-7 territory here lol.

Stop talking until you play revetleafing. Cheetah bodies starfire 7-3. I do no throw 7-3s out there easily.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

If Starfire does have an advantage over Cheetah it's only a small one. No way is she Cheetahs 'worst matchup' - I can already think of at least three where she struggles more than with Starfire (namely Supergirl, Superman and Batman)

Oh, and one of Starfires worst matchups that hasn't been mentioned much so far has got to be Catwoman. B3 alone ruins starfire in neutral (ignoring the plethora of superior mids Catwoman has even without that) and catwomans evasion and mobility mean that she'll often only take a small amount of chip damage getting in. Never has starfire's 6 frame d1 been as much of a lifesaver as it is here - without it you'd be dangerously close to 3-7 territory here lol.

And lmao catwoman is 4-6 and extremely winnable. She can’t jump at starfire ever.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I have a YouTube that I have been uploading sets vs top players and tourney matches. Search playing to win starfire and you should find it. Includes sets vs Theo and others

 

[TarkatanDentist]

No posts in almost a month? Sad, sad times...

At any rate, the patch really did Starfire a solid MU-wise. The Supergirl matchup isn't nearly as annoying as it once was, and likewise with Catwoman. The only MUs left where I still don't feel too confident using Starfire are Green Arrow and Dr Fate, and that's more a personal preference rather than me thinking those MUs are 3-7 or something lol.

Her overall MU spread must be looking pretty good now.

 

[Roy Arkon]

No posts in almost a month? Sad, sad times...

At any rate, the patch really did Starfire a solid MU-wise. The Supergirl matchup isn't nearly as annoying as it once was, and likewise with Catwoman. The only MUs left where I still don't feel too confident using Starfire are Green Arrow and Dr Fate, and that's more a personal preference rather than me thinking those MUs are 3-7 or something lol.

Her overall MU spread must be looking pretty good now.

Her MU spread was already good before, now it is even better. I think she can deal well enough against GA and Fate due to her mobility.

 

[GLoRToR]

No posts in almost a month? Sad, sad times...

At any rate, the patch really did Starfire a solid MU-wise. The Supergirl matchup isn't nearly as annoying as it once was, and likewise with Catwoman. The only MUs left where I still don't feel too confident using Starfire are Green Arrow and Dr Fate, and that's more a personal preference rather than me thinking those MUs are 3-7 or something lol.

Her overall MU spread must be looking pretty good now.

I think we're still discovering what's what.
I'd love to hear from @Tweedy , wonder what he thinks of her matchups now.

 

[ATP2014]

So after watching Tweedy do work with the revamped Starfire, I'm thinking there needs to be a revised MU chart. She looks like a potential top 10 candidate.

 

[GJX7]

Can someone please just list me all of Starfire's losing matchups please, and any tricky "5 - 5"s?

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Can someone please just list me all of Starfire's losing matchups please, and any tricky "5 - 5"s?

Definitely loses:

1. Dr Fate. Probably her hardest MU - his zoning outclasses hers soundly, and he has tools to compete with her at most other ranges too. I almost always counterpick this one.
2. Green Arrow. Another bad one simply because his crouching arrows are so effective against her. Another one I usually counterpick.

Loses slightly:

1. Atom. It's borderline between this and 'definitely loses', but Atom can actually get around a lot of Starfire's zoning pretty easily, and that stomp keeps her in check too. Wise use of trait is a must.
2. Black Adam. This would be 5-5, but it's in his favour a little simply due to him having better damage output, while Starfire's damage is more average.
3. Firestorm. Similar to Black Adam.
4. Catwoman. Less annoying these days after her nerfs, but b3 is still a pain in the butt and that damage is still pretty solid.
5. Supergirl. d1 nerf gives Starfire an edge at point-blank range, but b123 is still super good, lasers are still very good, and you still need to watch yourself constantly to not get caught in an MB ice breath into full combo.

'Tricky 5-5s':

1. Poison Ivy. Can be ultra annoying for either side depending on who gets a comfortable health lead first. If Ivy gets a lead, she can use Bark Skin to nullify one of Starfire's biggest strengths i.e. chip damage, and Starfire actually doesn't have easy answers to Ivy's trait at range either.
2. Superman. Starfire checks his zoning soundly, but f23 is still f23...
3. Flash. Feels like a 2-8 if you end up guessing wrong on a mix-up, but then that's true regardless of who's facing him. Pushblock if your dear friend here. [Note: this is actually one of my favourite matchups to play!]

Starfire, for the most part, has a very non-extreme MU spread; there are only 2 or 3 where she has serious disadvantages, which is about equal to how many characters have serious disadvantages against her (sorry not sorry Black Canary and Bane mains)

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

Definitely loses:

1. Dr Fate. Probably her hardest MU - his zoning outclasses hers soundly, and he has tools to compete with her at most other ranges too. I almost always counterpick this one.
2. Green Arrow. Another bad one simply because his crouching arrows are so effective against her. Another one I usually counterpick.

Loses slightly:

1. Atom. It's borderline between this and 'definitely loses', but Atom can actually get around a lot of Starfire's zoning pretty easily, and that stomp keeps her in check too. Wise use of trait is a must.
2. Black Adam. This would be 5-5, but it's in his favour a little simply due to him having better damage output, while Starfire's damage is more average.
3. Firestorm. Similar to Black Adam.
4. Catwoman. Less annoying these days after her nerfs, but b3 is still a pain in the butt and that damage is still pretty solid.
5. Supergirl. d1 nerf gives Starfire an edge at point-blank range, but b123 is still super good, lasers are still very good, and you still need to watch yourself constantly to not get caught in an MB ice breath into full combo.

'Tricky 5-5s':

1. Poison Ivy. Can be ultra annoying for either side depending on who gets a comfortable health lead first. If Ivy gets a lead, she can use Bark Skin to nullify one of Starfire's biggest strengths i.e. chip damage, and Starfire actually doesn't have easy answers to Ivy's trait at range either.
2. Superman. Starfire checks his zoning soundly, but f23 is still f23...
3. Flash. Feels like a 2-8 if you end up guessing wrong on a mix-up, but then that's true regardless of who's facing him. Pushblock if your dear friend here. [Note: this is actually one of my favourite matchups to play!]

Starfire, for the most part, has a very non-extreme MU spread; there are only 2 or 3 where she has serious disadvantages, which is about equal to how many characters have serious disadvantages against her (sorry not sorry Black Canary and Bane mains)

I would put GA as slightly loses imo. The MU really comes down to who gets the lead and holds it better. GA low arrow is a problem but once you get the health lead on him he is forced to go in. He cant build any meter with his arrows unless you block them and you can react to reload with trait and out meter build him.

 

[jmt]

I don’t agree that she loses those

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Definitely loses:

1. Dr Fate. Probably her hardest MU - his zoning outclasses hers soundly, and he has tools to compete with her at most other ranges too. I almost always counterpick this one.
2. Green Arrow. Another bad one simply because his crouching arrows are so effective against her. Another one I usually counterpick.

Loses slightly:

1. Atom. It's borderline between this and 'definitely loses', but Atom can actually get around a lot of Starfire's zoning pretty easily, and that stomp keeps her in check too. Wise use of trait is a must.
2. Black Adam. This would be 5-5, but it's in his favour a little simply due to him having better damage output, while Starfire's damage is more average.
3. Firestorm. Similar to Black Adam.
4. Catwoman. Less annoying these days after her nerfs, but b3 is still a pain in the butt and that damage is still pretty solid.
5. Supergirl. d1 nerf gives Starfire an edge at point-blank range, but b123 is still super good, lasers are still very good, and you still need to watch yourself constantly to not get caught in an MB ice breath into full combo.

'Tricky 5-5s':

1. Poison Ivy. Can be ultra annoying for either side depending on who gets a comfortable health lead first. If Ivy gets a lead, she can use Bark Skin to nullify one of Starfire's biggest strengths i.e. chip damage, and Starfire actually doesn't have easy answers to Ivy's trait at range either.
2. Superman. Starfire checks his zoning soundly, but f23 is still f23...
3. Flash. Feels like a 2-8 if you end up guessing wrong on a mix-up, but then that's true regardless of who's facing him. Pushblock if your dear friend here. [Note: this is actually one of my favourite matchups to play!]

Starfire, for the most part, has a very non-extreme MU spread; there are only 2 or 3 where she has serious disadvantages, which is about equal to how many characters have serious disadvantages against her (sorry not sorry Black Canary and Bane mains)

fate 5-5
ga prolly losing
atom losing
ba 5-5
firestorm prolly 5-5
cw losing imo
supergirl losing imo
she beats flash maybe superman aswell
ivy prolly 5-5 imo
brainiac is a hard 5-5 imo
manta prolly losing
Darkseid is prolly losing but i think star might have potential

you didnt mention hellboy and blue beetle which is also losing

 

[AkioOf100]

ivy vs starfire is 5-5? I thought it was in starfire's favor?

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

@xKhaoTik

Input on the Ivy/SF MU?

 

[GJX7]

Definitely loses:

1. Dr Fate. Probably her hardest MU - his zoning outclasses hers soundly, and he has tools to compete with her at most other ranges too. I almost always counterpick this one.
2. Green Arrow. Another bad one simply because his crouching arrows are so effective against her. Another one I usually counterpick.

Loses slightly:

1. Atom. It's borderline between this and 'definitely loses', but Atom can actually get around a lot of Starfire's zoning pretty easily, and that stomp keeps her in check too. Wise use of trait is a must.
2. Black Adam. This would be 5-5, but it's in his favour a little simply due to him having better damage output, while Starfire's damage is more average.
3. Firestorm. Similar to Black Adam.
4. Catwoman. Less annoying these days after her nerfs, but b3 is still a pain in the butt and that damage is still pretty solid.
5. Supergirl. d1 nerf gives Starfire an edge at point-blank range, but b123 is still super good, lasers are still very good, and you still need to watch yourself constantly to not get caught in an MB ice breath into full combo.

'Tricky 5-5s':

1. Poison Ivy. Can be ultra annoying for either side depending on who gets a comfortable health lead first. If Ivy gets a lead, she can use Bark Skin to nullify one of Starfire's biggest strengths i.e. chip damage, and Starfire actually doesn't have easy answers to Ivy's trait at range either.
2. Superman. Starfire checks his zoning soundly, but f23 is still f23...
3. Flash. Feels like a 2-8 if you end up guessing wrong on a mix-up, but then that's true regardless of who's facing him. Pushblock if your dear friend here. [Note: this is actually one of my favourite matchups to play!]

Starfire, for the most part, has a very non-extreme MU spread; there are only 2 or 3 where she has serious disadvantages, which is about equal to how many characters have serious disadvantages against her (sorry not sorry Black Canary and Bane mains)

Thanks so much! I guess I won't be picking her up then I was hoping she would cover Leo's bad matchups

 

[xKhaoTik]

Starfire vs ivy is even.

I’ll give my points later

 

[Tweedy]

Personally I disagree with everything Tarkatan said besides Green Arrow and Atom. She either beats Fate or it's even. Starfire will come out ahead if she just uses 1/4 of her trait at a time and lands often. If Fate wants to just duck forever then you can just dust, and dust into trait or dust into another dust is a mix up.

I think she loses pretty bad to Beetle, Hellboy, Manta, Darkseid. Supergirl is probably 5-5 now since it's dumb for Supergirl to deal with her being -1 or -2, with the d1 nerf. Superman and Flash definitely lose to Starfire like that's not even debatable to me. Bf2 is just such a stupid move vs those characters. They can be hard to anti air but you just gotta space them properly.

Posion Ivy probably doesn't lose as bad as Ivy's say, but I doubt it's tricky. If she puts bark skin up she still can't do anything without taking trades.

One of the best reasons to use Starfire imo is that she goes 5-5 with Black Adam and Catwoman. I don't think Starfire is all that overall but she does do fine vs these two character, that are super relevant in the meta. Vs Catwoman just find the sweet spot where you can d2 her jump ins. You want to be right outside the range of jump 1, and where you can low profile her jump 2 enough to get your d2 off. Don't use dust a lot because Catwoman is small and really fast. Optimize your whip trip punishes and what not.

Black Adam can get frauded out a lot by bf2, also black magic is punishable on block by trait. You can read lightning preemptively with a jump and trait. He's hard to anti air though, like he'll just jump right through b2 and db3 no matter how well you time them sometimes. Make sure you're punishing f12 properly with a d1 juggled into a 113 or 21.

It was mentioned at the end that Bane is at a severe disadvantage which is not true at all imo. I also understand that there aren't really too many good Banes so I could understand the misconception. He has arguably the best forward dash and meterburn roll in the game, which are very effective against duck trait/star dust mind games. Punishing his overhead is really annoying since the patch, and he can just bulldoze your wake ups and armor through numerous gaps that are typically non-existent.

Even if you think Bane loses after playing Bio which is the only Bane in my mind, there's no way Bane is worse off than characters like Captain Cold and Green Lantern, or even joker.

 

[Tweedy]

Also, not to be a dick but basics and I are super shithead Starfires which imo is how she's supposed to be played. If you don't play her like a hawkgirl fan shithead then you'll probably not see match ups the way that we do. If she's played as a standard zoner then I could understand why Superman or Flash might not seem easy, but those characters are no match for the shithead playstyle.

bf2 4 lyfe wuts a minus frame m8

 

[Roy Arkon]

Also, not to be a dick but basics and I are super shithead Starfires which imo is how she's supposed to be played. If you don't play her like a hawkgirl fan shithead then you'll probably not see match ups the way that we do. If she's played as a standard zoner then I could understand why Superman or Flash might not seem easy, but those characters are no match for the shithead playstyle.

bf2 4 lyfe wuts a minus frame m8

What is exactly about Hawkgirl that is related to Starfire? I did not play IJ1 on a high level that much so I don't know. Care to explain please?

 

[Tweedy]

What is exactly about Hawkgirl that is related to Starfire? I did not play IJ1 on a high level that much so I don't know. Care to explain please?

I didn't either, but when I ignore plus frames with bf2 ppl say it reminds them of hawkgirl.