SonicFox's Initial MK11 Impressions

[CrimsonShadow]

Here's how it goes in the NRS community.


Pro-player says something = Gold
Normal player says something= Trash

Before ESL:
"ONLINE MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. LOL, NO ONE CARES ABOUT ONLINE, ITS A VIABLE WAY TO DETERMINE SKILL OR GAMES"

After ESL:
"SILENCE"


Games gets revealed and some people have legitimate concerns about the game on the forum:

"TOO EARLY" proceeds to get shit on.


Sonic and K&m Tweets stuff that should be changed about the game:

Repeated dick sucking continues by SOME of the same people that shit on posters threads about their concerns.


Lol, never change TYMfaqs.

On the other hand though, you gotta love people that haven't played a game and yet are suggesting multiple changes to said game.

It's like "I'm not a pilot, but let me tell you how to fix today's airplanes"

I think it's less about who's pro and not, and more about someone who actually played a game vs. people sitting on the forum with 0 gameplay hours saying "Look you gotta change this cause it looked wrong"

I'd take Foxy's early word over someone who's never even picked up a controller in MK11, much less played a match. He can be wrong just like anyone else, but at least he's speaking from his own impressions and not secondhand speculation.

 

[Kroaken]

On the other hand though, you gotta love people that haven't played a game and yet are suggesting multiple changes to said game.

It's like "I'm not a pilot, but let me tell you how to fix today's airplanes"

I think it's less about who's pro and not, and more about someone who actually played a game vs. people sitting on the forum with 0 gameplay hours saying "Look you gotta change this cause it looks wrong"

I'd take Foxy's early word over someone who's never even picked up a controller in MK11, much less played a match. He can be wrong just like anyone else, but at least he's speaking from his own impressions and not secondhand speculation.

They're discussing concerns about a game on a forum made for said game... Seems pretty logical to me. Even if I don't agree with their opinion.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

They're discussing concerns about a game on a forum made for said game... Seems pretty logical to me. Even if I don't agree with their opinion.

Discussion is fine, but people seem confused about why the feedback of someone who's actually played a game carries additional weight.

And on why they might want to actually play something before telling the designers 20 different things they should change.

Big difference between "Let's discuss the implications of XYZ" and "Please sign my petition to make massive changes to this game I've never touched"

 

[Kroaken]

Discussion is fine, but people seem confused about why the feedback of someone who's actually played a game carries additional weight.

And on why they might want to actually play something before telling the designers 20 different things they should change.

That's fine. I'm just not of the ideology of, well, okay let's take your example:

If I'm a pilot and we're discussing how to fix airplanes (not sure if that's in a pilots wheelhouse to begin with but let's assume it is). If you, not a pilot, have an exceptional idea, do I and the other pilots at the table ignore it because you don't have the credentials to have an opinion (per us) or do we look at the opinion itself and not the person giving it.

Hopefully I've written this in such a way that it makes sense. Basically, to me, being a pro doesn't make your opinions or ideas any more valid, innately, than Tommy TYM's. A pro, in all their skillful glory, is just as capable of being wrong or right on something. They do, in this situation, of course, have more hands on information from which to reach their conclusions.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

That's fine. I'm just not of the ideology of, well, okay let's take your example:

If I'm a pilot and we're discussing how to fix airplanes (not sure if that's in a pilots wheelhouse to begin with but let's assume it is). If you, not a pilot, have an exceptional idea, do I and the other pilots at the table ignore it because you don't have the credentials to have an opinion (per us) or do we look at the opinion itself and not the person giving it.

Hopefully I've written this in such a way that it makes sense. Basically, to me, being a pro doesn't make your opinions or ideas any more valid, innately, than Tommy TYM's. A pro, in all their skillful glory, is just as capable of being wrong or right on something. They do, in this situation, of course, have more hands on information from which to reach their conclusions.

I think you missed my point entirely though. This isn’t about Pros vs. Joes. This is about people having hands-on experience with a game, vs. people who haven’t even played it yet saying what needs to be changed.

Sonic’s word carries gravity because his feedback comes from actual experience with MK11. Doesn’t mean that he’s automatically correct; but it’s a much better place to start. Pro or not doesn’t matter — you’d consider what KingHippo has to say over a pro who hasn’t touched the game because Hippo’s impressions are based on spending time with a controller in his hands.

If people don’t understand the concept of waiting to try something out before you become set in your assumptions, I don’t know what to say.

 

[Kroaken]

I think you missed my point entirely though. This isn’t about Pros vs. Joes. This is about people having hands-on experience with a game, vs. people who haven’t even played it yet saying what needs to be changed.

Sonic’s word carries gravity because his feedback comes from actual experience with MK11. Doesn’t mean that he’s automatically correct; but it’s a much better place to start. Pro or not doesn’t matter — you’d consider what KingHippo has to say over a pro who hasn’t touched the game because Hippo’s impressions are based on spending time with a controller in his hands.

If people don’t understand the concept of waiting to try something out before you become set in your assumptions, I don’t know what to say.

I could agree with that sentiment. But I think there are definitely those that give it infallibility due to being a pro. We're not talking about what UnCagedGamez thinks, we're talking about Sonic. So, naturally, that comes with the territory. It's definitely a slippery slope and a fine line to tread.

Ultimately, I think it's perfectly fine for the people who have only been able to study footage to comment on what's changed going into MK11. There are other things that I personally would struggle to judge without having played, though. Walk speed, to me, is something I have to feel before I can judge it. Variations being allowed in tournament, however, I have an opinion on now.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Depends on the pro.

Most will have ulterior motives behind whatever they're peddling. And that DEFINITELY includes Sonic Fox.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Obviously I haven't played yet, but all his suggestions seem reasonable. He won't end up maining Baraka, though. Some absurd character will come along that only he can truly make shine (like vanilla Erron Black Outlaw) and that's who he will play. I think Baraka will be represented a lot by others, though.

Yea...Erron tick grabbed from every hit of his 21122 string and after it during the fatal 8 build of MKX, it wasn’t hard to make that shine. Although, he makes all characters look stupid.

Sonic will end up with the archetype he always ends up with, that’s a character(s) with decent zoning as a fall back, a 50/50 option always as a threat, has some sort of trap game or set up, and always high damage, and counter zoning. (If he is countered, he will switch in the set) And he’s not wrong to look for these traits. He never plays a character that only covers one area. Nor should he.

Think about his previous characters:
Mileena - MK9
Batgirl - IJ
Erron/Alien - MKX
Cold/BA/Red Hood - IJ2

He won’t end up with Sub (but he might play him a bit), as he doesn’t have traps or heavy set ups as an overall load out.

 

[NothingPersonal]

 

[Error]

Who let the subzero downplayers out of their cage? Grandmaster/ice clone is broke, whether Sonic thinks so or not.

 

[666 I HazeOner]

...

Aren't memes supposed to be funny? I have some of the most offensive humor myself, but this is just trash, rofl.

 

[Shania Twain]

On the other hand though, you gotta love people that haven't played a game and yet are suggesting multiple changes to said game.

It's like "I'm not a pilot, but let me tell you how to fix today's airplanes"

I think it's less about who's pro and not, and more about someone who actually played a game vs. people sitting on the forum with 0 gameplay hours saying "Look you gotta change this cause it looked wrong"

I'd take Foxy's early word over someone who's never even picked up a controller in MK11, much less played a match. He can be wrong just like anyone else, but at least he's speaking from his own impressions and not secondhand speculation.

First off....sorry my name has crimson in the title as it is a reference to the GI Joe movie Crimson neo viper. It was repaint of the Rise of Cobra action figure that was a gorgeous action figure but not featured in the film. I joined the forum before realizing your name so I hope you are not offended by name having crimson in it!

Anyhow, i agree with you. I think a lot is that these people have feedback on gameplay as they were very good and won tournaments and do not want broken characters winning and be forced to play those and they want to support the game as it generates sales and they can patch it quickly. Also, they can be easily be wrong and just giving impressions on what they played.

 

[SaSSolino]

That was a terrible speech, but come on you could clearly see he was super tense.

 

[NothingPersonal]

That was a terrible speech, but come on you could clearly see he was super tense.

Just having fun, not to dish the guy.

 

[NothingPersonal]

Aren't memes supposed to be funny? I have some of the most offensive humor myself, but this is just trash, rofl.

It's not supposed to be offensive. And if you didn't get the joke that's fine.

 

[STRYKIE]

people like Sonic know what they are talking about.. but it is a game design rule that you can't let people that play the game, as a gamer, be a designer... as they pretty much always want adjustments to match how they want to play, not to what is best for the design of the game as a whole. The prime stark example is character forums always downplaying and constantly asking for buffs. Changes are seen through the eyes of the gamer usually are about making their preferred style easier and lack a holistic consideration for the entire game and the goals of the game design itself.

Like take the "punish wake-ups"... this is something I see people asking for, as it is something they have had before. There could be (there also couldn't) but there could be some very good reasons because of how the rest of the game works for this, they seem to have very purposely removed a lot of that bonkers pressure and "get in your face"... and we can not appreciate why until we explorer the game.

IMO, it is just way to early to really make any comments. Remember they had 45 mins with the game for that exhibition (except for Ultradavid and K&M) ... so were playing in the OLD style.. the style the game is not using anymore.

Now I am not saying his ideas are bad, you gotta respect Sonic, but at the same time you also have to take it with a grain of salt.

In fairness, I think some players do have genuine intentions to help balance the game, the issue is more how well does NRS interpret the idea.

If the wake-up invincibility is there to circumvent potentially guaranteed stuff, then I'm sure some would be willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, but historically invincibility has been in NRS games as a general crutch for players who don't actually know how to defend. I don't think concerns would be entirely unwarranted in that respect.

Granted, wake-up rolls lose to throws, and invincibility frames have also been removed from backdashes, so my best guess is, there probably is a designated way to blow up the completely safe U3s that just hasn't been directly elaborated on yet. We'll see.

 

[Jynks]

In fairness, I think some players do have genuine intentions to help balance the game, the issue is more how well does NRS interpret the idea.

I do not think their intentions matter.. the thing about bias is that is is basically subconscious. There is a reason that players do not affect the rules in pretty much anything. Like say American Football or Football or w/e. Players are inherently bias.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Depends on the pro.

Most will have ulterior motives behind whatever they're peddling. And that DEFINITELY includes Sonic Fox.

Yeah, looks, like Sonic start his fight along before game release and he wanna make game more comfortable for him

 

[HeavyNorse]

I think you missed my point entirely though. This isn’t about Pros vs. Joes. This is about people having hands-on experience with a game, vs. people who haven’t even played it yet saying what needs to be changed.

Yeah, this, basically. I'd rather listen to people who have actual real info to share because they have experienced it than people yelling into the void about something they don't really know anything about.

Info and facts only though. People's personal opinions don't matter to me, as I'd rather form my own.

 

[Sablicious]

I don't mean to be anti-xeno-racialisticated... But, a twink furry who's infamous for spamming Error Blargh 50-50's, isn't my idea of a 'Elder God' -- when it comes to what's good / bad in a fighting game. Frankly, I wouldn't even ask Daigo Umehara whether SFV is good... 'Cause, you know... HE'S PAID TO PLAY IT!

Anecdote:
A few years back, the Capcom website had a AMA with said "Beast" (...a misnomer if I've ever seen one attributed to a stolid Japanese, male nurse), and I asked him whether having to find (and effectively spam) rote patterns and tactics in order to stay competitive, compromised his gaming philosophy and enjoyment of gaming. His answer (translated) was that winning was what he enjoyed about the game (SF) most. Well, he hasn't been "winning" that much lately (in SFV), and I've often wondered whether he'd eat those words -- were I to prepare them in a finely-prepared sushi roll...

 

[KidVanDal]

twink furry

I don't see what this has to do with anything?

 

[Sablicious]

I don't see what this has to do with anything?

Trust me: You don't want to see...

 

[KidVanDal]

Trust me: You don't want to see...

?

The way you wrote your comment it sounded like one of the reasons you don't see him as an "Elder god" or what ever is because he's a "twink furry"
And I really don't see what that has to do with anything regarding his opinions on the game?

I don't mean to be anti-xeno-racialisticated... But, a twink furry who's infamous for spamming Error Blargh 50-50's, isn't my idea of a 'Elder God'

 

[Xelz]

More important than the opinion of one person who played MK11 are common themes mentioned by multiple people who played MK11. We get a more complete picture about potential improvements as we (and NRS) hear more first hand perspectives from pros and non-pros alike. To that extent, Sonic Fox's feedback is helpful. Some of those common themes include:

• Dash forward is currently not much better than walk forward and could use a small buff
• Anti-air options feel weak
• Want custom variations to be tournament selectable (which I personally don’t agree with, but it’s been requested by more folks with game play experience than just Sonic Fox)

 

[GLoRToR]

The game is not out yet.
Even if all the top 16 players of the previous game posted their opinions, they would be only partially correct.

Because the game is not out yet.

The game is not even in Beta yet.

Wait and see.